Seeking gentle guidance.

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LaurelSpring
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Seeking gentle guidance.

Postby LaurelSpring » Thu Aug 30, 2012 6:22 pm

Greetings,

I have been reading some of the posts and I guess its just time to jump in here and give it a go. I do understand "the stick" approach, but my defenses have deteriorated and I tend to shut down in conflict situations so if there is a guide with a more gentle demeanor I would greatly appreciate that.

Thank you in advance for your assistance!

LaurelSpring

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Cam-RT
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Re: Seeking gentle guidance.

Postby Cam-RT » Thu Aug 30, 2012 7:34 pm

Hello, May I Call you Laural...Is that name what you're comfortable with?
I do understand "the stick" approach, but my defenses have deteriorated and I tend to shut down in conflict situations so if there is a guide with a more gentle demeanor I would greatly appreciate that.
As long as one does the work, there's no need..."The stick" is only used to help focus individuals who are basically wasting the guides time...

First I do have one rule...When I ask questions that you answer (When Ready.) them with complete honesty, and what you feel is 100% True and Concise. Please take time daily to perform 'The Work" and LOOK introspectively...This in essence is a dysfunction of how one processes thought, what we are doing is challenging and triggering the thought process and shedding light on what truly is behind these thoughts...

One last thing I need to ask, is whatever spiritual practices, beliefs or readings, please put them on hold until we are done. They are of NO use here. You can revisit these when we're finished...

I realize that life gets a bit hectic, If you can check in and let me know how you're doing daily, we can address where you're at on the path.

The Key here is Focus, Courage and Commitment,if not this will take far longer than it should.

Are we Good??...Let's get Started.

So what expectations do you have from liberation ?

And what comes up when I say "There's no such Entity "Self" in real life at all??"
The illusion isn't destroyed...Just seen for what it 'Is'
Thoughts vs. Reality----->Reality always wins.
"Have courage...Don't give up!!"

http://cam-rt.blogspot.com

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LaurelSpring
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Re: Seeking gentle guidance.

Postby LaurelSpring » Thu Aug 30, 2012 8:30 pm

Dear Cam,

Thank you so much for responding! Yes, it is fine to call me Laurel. :-)

I am fine with the rules. I have pretty much given up on all of the practices, teachers and non-duality books that I was reading. Most of the major grasping sort of seeking is gone. There is just a big void of a hole there now. I think that I want to fill it with something but then I realize Im grasping again and it all just sort of turns to vapor anyway. Im just not sure how to proceed at this time. I am grateful for assistance. I can respond daily but there may be a couple of Saturdays that I will not have access to a computer.

You first question brings up several responses in me. I have come along far enough to realize that expectations are not realistic in a chop wood carry water sort of way. I realized that I have emotions that arise and fall and situations that come and go. There are times that I feel peaceful and times that I feel dreadful. There is the seeming background upon which these things have their flow so I have no expectations for bliss or peace or anything really other than how life is presenting at the moment. It is what it is. I went through alot of depression when I realized that my life would not particularly change per se but I am developing a measure of comfort in the sense of continuity and stability of "whatever it is" that doesnt change. As you can see, there is still duality here in that I am a me and there is a ...that which doesnt change.

My expectations regarding liberation is to hopefully end this nagging restlessness once and for all. I have tried to withdraw from worldy things and then conversely totally engage and immerse and the nagging restlessness remains. I have tried to think myself as a not me but I dont think I have myself fooled into it yet....lol I wish there was just a switch to do it and then wonder why its really even germane because it really isnt going to make alot of difference outwardly anyway. Me or not me still does the dishes, etc. But as you can see, I cant seem to get away from it and the nagging need to resolve it in some way once and for all. I desire resolution.

When you say There is no such entity "Self" in real life at all, to me its like saying, there is no Santa Claus or even more mundane something like..the mail doesnt come on Sunday. I just think ok, heard that before. I have honestly become desensitized to the statement due to 10 plus years of studying A Course in Miracles which pretty much hammers this into your head on every page and various and multiple non duality books and teachers. I just think...ok now what? I get it on an illusional matrix dream world nothing which changes is real sort of way, but my brain is still believing, thinking and functioning as a self and therein lies the difficulty or at least it seems to appear to be a difficulty to me!

I look forward to your assistance and insight....

Laurel

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Re: Seeking gentle guidance.

Postby Cam-RT » Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:36 am

Good Evening Laurel...
There is just a big void of a hole there now.
This is interesting, I have a feeling we just might end up going there, later in our conversation. Have you gone into this void?....How does it feel if you do?
I can respond daily but there may be a couple of Saturdays that I will not have access to a computer.
The main concern is that you keep the work in mind as you go about your day, and responding to the questions when you feel you have reached the best answer as possible, just don't guess...Give me the Truth from your Gut.
If you miss a day don't sweat it.
I have no expectations for bliss or peace or anything really other than how life is presenting at the moment. It is what it is.
Excellent response! Everybody is different in how they experience crossing The Gate, AND how it develops post Gate...In most cases it tends to deepen and broaden over time, but "after care" is essential to get the most out of this...
I have tried to withdraw from worldy things and then conversely totally engage and immerse and the nagging restlessness remains.
This is unnecessary, you are one with all that's around you...<---Don't let this confuse you, just go with the flow.
When you say There is no such entity "Self" in real life at all, to me its like saying, there is no Santa Claus or even more mundane something like..the mail doesnt come on Sunday.
Good...Some people see this question and experience fear and even physically sick from the fear...Just had to ask, let me know and we can address this too...

Okay first let's get an understanding of how thoughts work...

In essence what we are dealing with here, is a dysfunction of the thought process that in fact creates what appears to be a separate being ( A thought.) that points toward ownership/identity that in reality doesn't exist...

Let me explain how this occurs right now. ( The UN-liberated state.)

The mind in addition to being and incredible processing and storage device also is a labeling machine that labels experience as soon as perception happens...

Here's is an example...

Thought triggers feeling, feeling gets labeled--->New trigger--->Feeling gets more intense--->more labels--->Vicious feedback loop...

This goes on endlessly as long as this mental dysfunction persists...(The Self)

Try finding some negative or insecure thoughts...The more intense the better for this exercise... Feel how the body responds when these thoughts arise?<-----You can use the body as a tool to trace the feelings back to thoughts that are associated to "The self"...Remember the body doesn't lie. This reflex is the same if someone was to slap or punch you and the body automatically reacts to protect itself...TRY IT!! get the feel of that sensation. This to will help guide you.

Okay Now, pick one of those thoughts now bring it up close and with laser focus...look straight through it.
What's behind it ?...Where did it come from?

What's controlling this thought??
The illusion isn't destroyed...Just seen for what it 'Is'
Thoughts vs. Reality----->Reality always wins.
"Have courage...Don't give up!!"

http://cam-rt.blogspot.com

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LaurelSpring
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Re: Seeking gentle guidance.

Postby LaurelSpring » Fri Aug 31, 2012 4:37 pm

Thank you Cam!

Your responses have already been so incredibly helpful!!! :-)

Regarding The Void... Thats a tough one. Initially and still occasionally the best I could describe it is as an.. Alice Down the Rabbit Hole.. feeling. I feel as though I somehow accidentally fell into a large bottomless hole and I am in continual free fall and anything I try to grasp at as I fall to catch and hold on to just disappears as I grasp at it. As you can imagine the feeling is very disorienting. I have felt very lonely and scared. After some time though I got sort of use to it so then it almost becomes more normal and even actually playful, like I might imagine sky divers would enjoy? Another thing about it though is that it has sort of sucked my motivation to do anything. I think, "why dont I go here and join this group or go there", and then I realized its all just more things that will have no substance anyway (I had that fear about this process also but it has already been helpful). Then I want to force myself so that I will at least be engaged in life at some level and have some sort of social connection. So the void just feels like nothing. Lots and lots of nothing. Sometimes it is comforting but then I wonder if I am just hiding out there as some sort of escape mechanism? I dont know, its just there no matter if I am trying to ignore it or hide in it. I mean what difference does it make what you do when you are falling, you can just be spread eagle or pretend to ride an imaginary bike or something, either way you are just falling you so might as well amuse yourself somehow. I hope that makes sense....lol

There will be no problem keeping the work in mind as it is pretty much all that I think about most of the time anyway! I will try to always answer from my gut. My concern is that I have so much programming and beliefs from other teachings that it will be difficult to sort it out, so I am hoping that you are able to spot it and call it out for me if I do that. I apologize in advance if the answer is long. ( I am trying to figure out the quote thing )

I am very relieved that you mentioned "after care" in this process. I have really struggled with most of this on my own with no one to help me through it and I would absolutely be grateful for the guidance and assistance. There are times when I feel totally psychotic and think I should just go check myself into some mental place. I appreciate the feedback regarding the withdrawal and immersion into life. That helped alot!

Honestly, I feel relieved that there is no such entity as The Self. It generally feels pretty messed up and insane to me and I would love to get past it. Thank you for your description of the disfunctional thought process. It really helped alot and was really clear to me!! OMG! I have read that over and over like 10 times now. I want to end or maybe heal?... my mental dysfunction.

OK...negative thought. There are several pretty intense ones. When I bring one to mind I feel a terrible sinking sensation in my heart/chest and pain in my gut. I feel hopeless and I just want to cry and isolate. So when this happens I can associate it with the thought that triggered it and now I am looking behind it at where it came from.

Interesting. I would say upon examination that initially it came from fear of the future or projecting a possible future that would be negative and painful. Tracing it further back than that gets tricky. I would say that it somehow arose out of some sort of accumulated negative thoughts that somehow exist around this subject in the collective mind and I am somehow tuning into that? Further still, The collective negative thoughts are really just out there in the nothingness arising and falling, manifesting and disappearing just like the rest of everything that is. Thoughts Just hanging out for the picking and feeling that really have no substance or origin until grasped, felt and owned?

From that perspective nothing is controlling the thought other than my own desire to pick it, look at it, feel it and play with it because it really has no origin or substance. Its almost like a game I am choosing to play but I am not really conscious that I am choosing to play it. I could just as easily pick a different thought and feeling from the mass void consciousness as that one and play with it...seemingly. But damn! There is still a me picking and playing! Im back at GO again! Argh...

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Re: Seeking gentle guidance.

Postby Cam-RT » Sat Sep 01, 2012 3:14 am

OMG!!!

As I was reading this, I got this feeling in my chest...(kinda like that part in the cartoon "The Grinch that stole Christmas" when the Grinch's heart grew 10 sizes!!) I Know that sounds corny but by the time I finished reading your post I just wanted to reach out and give you the BIGGEST HUG!!

Laural you're literally standing in front of "The Gate"!
The "Void" the "Rabbit Hole" Your staring Right at it!!
I somehow accidentally fell into a large bottomless hole and I am in continual free fall and anything I try to grasp at as I fall to catch and hold on to just disappears as I grasp at it. As you can imagine the feeling is very disorienting. I have felt very lonely and scared. After some time though I got sort of use to it so then it almost becomes more normal and even actually playful, like I might imagine sky divers would enjoy?
This is where your very "being" emanates, embrace this!...All the rest is just thought, as you fall JUST LET GO!
Let everything that points to you go!....There's no you!...You are literally the imagination of yourself...
You've seen the void,the Nothing... It's infinite pure formless energy THAT'S ALL!!<----That's the REAL YOU!!!

There's No Liver (Not the organ ;^)...Just LIFE!!

I'm going to give you a quick writing exercise to give you a better understanding of how the body points to these rouge thoughts so you can get a feel of how "In real time" this works and apply this in an day to day application.

Okay, please take about twenty minutes or so and try and pay particular attention to how the body reacts as you perform this exercise...

First write what you are experiencing right now using words I and me. Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just plain description of here now.

Like this-
I am laying in bed. I am hearing the rain, I am typing these words..

Do it for 10 minutes. Watch the body, are there any sensations of tightening or relaxing?

Then for next 10 minutes write without words I and me. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs:
Waiting for next thought, typing, breathing, blinking, hearing the rain.

Again watch what is happening in the body.

Now compare the two ways to label experience- is one truer than the other? If so, which one? What is here without labels? Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

Your body knows. I is a label, not experiencer. Not a thinker, not a doer, not a hearer of rain. I is not what makes eyes blink and it is not a breather, it's a word, that is used for convenience of communication. If it's believed to be an entity, the mind is confused, the body is tensed up. Unconfusing it is simple- bring attention back to now and look once again- is there a me behind the word 'me'?

Life is happening. Looking is happening. Getting lost in the story is happening. With or without label I.

What is not on automatic?
And do we really need to be enslaved by labels? After all, experience is what labels point TO.

Look. Don't think, just look.
The body is the slave to the mind...

Here's a couple of Quotes before I go...

"We are in the Business of Slaying demons, Not feeding them..."

"Thought's/Demons are empty projections of "The Self"...Their objective is "occupy" us ,NOT to defeat us..."
The illusion isn't destroyed...Just seen for what it 'Is'
Thoughts vs. Reality----->Reality always wins.
"Have courage...Don't give up!!"

http://cam-rt.blogspot.com

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Re: Seeking gentle guidance.

Postby Cam-RT » Sat Sep 01, 2012 3:18 am

OMG!!!

As I was reading this, I got this feeling in my chest...(kinda like that part in the cartoon "The Grinch that stole Christmas" when the Grinch's heart grew 10 sizes!!) I Know that sounds corny but by the time I finished reading your post I just wanted to reach out and give you the BIGGEST HUG!!

Laural you're literally standing in front of "The Gate"!
The "Void" the "Rabbit Hole" Your staring Right at it!!
I somehow accidentally fell into a large bottomless hole and I am in continual free fall and anything I try to grasp at as I fall to catch and hold on to just disappears as I grasp at it. As you can imagine the feeling is very disorienting. I have felt very lonely and scared. After some time though I got sort of use to it so then it almost becomes more normal and even actually playful, like I might imagine sky divers would enjoy?
This is where your very "being" emanates, embrace this!...All the rest is just thought, as you fall JUST LET GO!
Let everything that points to you go!....There's no you!...You are literally the imagination of yourself...
You've seen the void,the Nothing... It's infinite pure formless energy THAT'S ALL!!<----That's the REAL YOU!!!

There's No Liver (Not the organ ;^)...Just LIFE!!

I'm going to give you a quick writing exercise to give you a better understanding of how the body points to these rouge thoughts so you can get a feel of how "In real time" this works and apply this in an day to day application.

Okay, please take about twenty minutes or so and try and pay particular attention to how the body reacts as you perform this exercise...

First write what you are experiencing right now using words I and me. Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just plain description of here now.

Like this-
I am laying in bed. I am hearing the rain, I am typing these words..

Do it for 10 minutes. Watch the body, are there any sensations of tightening or relaxing?

Then for next 10 minutes write without words I and me. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs:
Waiting for next thought, typing, breathing, blinking, hearing the rain.

Again watch what is happening in the body.

Now compare the two ways to label experience- is one truer than the other? If so, which one? What is here without labels? Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

Your body knows. I is a label, not experiencer. Not a thinker, not a doer, not a hearer of rain. I is not what makes eyes blink and it is not a breather, it's a word, that is used for convenience of communication. If it's believed to be an entity, the mind is confused, the body is tensed up. Unconfusing it is simple- bring attention back to now and look once again- is there a me behind the word 'me'?

Life is happening. Looking is happening. Getting lost in the story is happening. With or without label I.

What is not on automatic?
And do we really need to be enslaved by labels? After all, experience is what labels point TO.

Look. Don't think, just look.
The body is the slave to the mind...

Here's a couple of Quotes before I go...

"We are in the Business of Slaying demons, Not feeding them..."

"Thought's/Demons are empty projections of "The Self"...Their objective is "occupy" us ,NOT to defeat us..."
The illusion isn't destroyed...Just seen for what it 'Is'
Thoughts vs. Reality----->Reality always wins.
"Have courage...Don't give up!!"

http://cam-rt.blogspot.com

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LaurelSpring
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Location: VA

Re: Seeking gentle guidance.

Postby LaurelSpring » Sat Sep 01, 2012 7:10 pm

Dear Cam,
As I was reading this, I got this feeling in my chest...(kinda like that part in the cartoon "The Grinch that stole Christmas" when the Grinch's heart grew 10 sizes!!) I Know that sounds corny but by the time I finished reading your post I just wanted to reach out and give you the BIGGEST HUG!!
Thank you so much for the big hearted Grinch hugs! Big Hugs to you also (((Cam))! You have no idea how much this is helping me. I am devoting the day to this. I really really want to get this so much.
This is where your very "being" emanates, embrace this!...All the rest is just thought, as you fall JUST LET GO!
Let everything that points to you go!....There's no you!...You are literally the imagination of yourself...
You've seen the void,the Nothing... It's infinite pure formless energy THAT'S ALL!!<----That's the REAL YOU!!!
There's No Liver (Not the organ ;^)...Just LIFE!!
Im feeling really excited right now after reading this. I really needed to hear some personal confirmation on this. Its like I can read and read all of this stuff out there but it seems so non directed that I cant tell if it relates to my experience or not. The words can seem so fluffy vague and confusing. Having you say this directy to me somehow makes all the difference in the world! When I read "Just Let GO" from you now, my whole body just relaxed as if it finally had permission to do so. Instead of feeling scared and lonely regarding the void, I am now feeling energized and excited and actually happy!! What a relief! :-)

First write what you are experiencing right now using words I and me. Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just plain description of here now.

Here goes:

I am drinking tea. I am sitting. I am taking a deep breath. My eyes are weepy. My nose is runny. I hear the hum of the computer and the keys tapping. My fingers are moving quickly. I am making typos and I have to fix them. I see the words on the screen. I pause to see what sensations arise. I feel energy in my body. It makes my head feel fuzzy. I feel concerned about that. I wonder if I am doing this right. I hope that I am. I pause to review what I wrote so I dont repeat. I look at the time. I hear the ac turn on. I wonder how hot it is outside. I feel the sweat on my body. I feel the cool air beginning to flow. I feel pressure in my brain. I pause. I am thinking. I am feeling. I am noticing what I am feeling. I take another sip of tea. I shift positions. I feel my feet getting crampy. I stretch my back. I pause to rib my eyes and my forehead. I wonder why 10 minutes can sometimes feel so long. I pause and look at the time again. I wonder if I need to go get a tissue. I feel my clothes. I hear an acorn drop on the roof. I think about Fall. I scratch my neck. I pause and shift in my seat again and stretch my legs and back. I look at the clock again. I lean back and stare at the screen and the words I have typed. I adjust my clothes. My stomach feels puffy. I take another sip of tea> I feel the warmth in my mouth and throat. It feels good. My throat is sore. I like the tast of the spices. My head is hurting. I pause. I go blank. I refocus on whats going on. I start typing again. I breathe. I hear the breath. My chest rises and then falls. I look at the clock again. I blink. I pause. I go blank again. I am still and then I type. The stillness feels nice. My wrists start to ache. My fingers slow down. I breathe. I hear the ac stop. I hear traffic on the road. I wonder if the mail came yet.

OK times up!!
Do it for 10 minutes. Watch the body, are there any sensations of tightening or relaxing?

There were times when the body tensed up and then there were times where it just relaxed. It seemed to be back and forth depending on what was going on in my head. Tensing during thought and action, then I would just go blank and relax. Tense and relax.
Then for next 10 minutes write without words I and me. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs:
Waiting for next thought, typing, breathing, blinking, hearing the rain.
Ok here goes:


Pausing, typing, waiting, listening, typing, correcting, hitting keys, wondering, looking at clock, calculating time, pausing, zoning out, space bar, reaching, grasping, sipping, swallowing, nose itchy, stuffiness, fullness, sensations in legs, rearranging, arms aching, pausing, typing again, zoning, deep breath, restlessness, blinking, looking, seeing, watching, wondering, breathing, correcting, shifting, stretching, zoning, focusing on the energy, fuzzyness, hearing slight buzzing, hearing crickets and outside things, heaviness, zoning, pausing, hearing computer hum, hearing traffic, wondering, feeling sleepy, reaching, grasping, sipping, swallowing, typing, heavy sigh, pause, close eyes, zone, blackness, pause, stretching, shifting, typing faster, stopping, stillness, typing, zoning, shifting, moving, refocusing, looking at clock, tensing and releasing muscles, sitting up straighter, looking at the screen, watching the words, watching the blinking cursor, feeling warmth, wondering, seeing, hearing, tiring, stretching neck, looking at the clock.

Times up!
Again watch what is happening in the body.
Now compare the two ways to label experience- is one truer than the other? If so, which one? What is here without labels? Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?
In terms of what occurs outwardly, they look the same, but in regards to the experience there are differences. There is much more tension in the body in the first exercise. There is more ownership, expectation and pressure to perform. There is more stress occurring in the body. In the second exercise there was much more relaxation. I zoned alot more, there was less stress, less structure, less pressure to perform or do it right. It was just happening and I didnt have to own it or control it. I was more of an observer of it which was quite freeing! I am seriously starting to cry right now and I dont even know why. Crying is occurring! Its like just realizing that is literally making me sob. What a great exercise!

Without the labels, I cant really say what is here, I dont have a word for it, but I can say that it is independent of the "package" labeled "me" and that is such a huge huge relief. More sobbing, total meltdown. "I" dont have to fix, control, manipulate, or be responsible for anything. So grateful!!!!
If it's believed to be an entity, the mind is confused, the body is tensed up. Unconfusing it is simple- bring attention back to now and look once again- is there a me behind the word 'me'?
Life is happening. Looking is happening. Getting lost in the story is happening. With or without label I.

This mind confusion thing is so clear to me right now. As I get up from this computer and go about the rest of the day I wonder if I will forget or get confused again. I will probably bounce into autopilot again. Is that normal? Does everyone have an adjustment period? I guess I will just have to see what happens. How exciting! LOL

What is not on automatic?
And do we really need to be enslaved by labels? After all, experience is what labels point TO.
At this moment everything is on automatic! Even if it seems like it might not be it is. OMG!
This feels so incredible. More crying. Looking, looking, no more slavery to the mind!


Thank you for the quotes. This has really been an intense session for me today!!!!

Processing is occurring!!! Grasping is occurring, fear about losing "it" is occurring. Wanting to stay here in this free space is occurring. Excitement is occurring. It feels like progress if finally happening. My heart feels so full of love and gratitude. Tissues are needed. Off to see what happens next.

Lots of big hugs (((((Cam)))) Have a most wonderful day!

Laurel

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Re: Seeking gentle guidance.

Postby Cam-RT » Sat Sep 01, 2012 10:34 pm

Beautiful Laural!

Excellent Work!!
Without the labels, I cant really say what is here, I dont have a word for it, but I can say that it is independent of the "package" labeled "me" and that is such a huge huge relief. More sobbing, total meltdown. "I" dont have to fix, control, manipulate, or be responsible for anything. So grateful!!!!
Laurel....Your there!!! Beautiful isn't it??...Reading this literally put a lump in my throat, and brought me back to when this hit for me also!...It's SUCH A RELIEF!!!
I wonder if I will forget or get confused again. I will probably bounce into autopilot again. Is that normal?
When "IT" hit for me I had a couple of false starts prior, so I took a couple of day's to make sure...
But if autopilot did come, what's behind the wheel?? ;^)
At this moment everything is on automatic! Even if it seems like it might not be it is. OMG!
This feels so incredible. More crying. Looking, looking, no more slavery to the mind!
Super BIG hugs to you my dear....((((Laurel))))
Laurel...I'm so proud! to be your guide.

Do you have any more questions for me???
All that's left is confirmation questions, (when you're ready) and let the other guides have a peek to make sure you're through...
The illusion isn't destroyed...Just seen for what it 'Is'
Thoughts vs. Reality----->Reality always wins.
"Have courage...Don't give up!!"

http://cam-rt.blogspot.com

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LaurelSpring
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Re: Seeking gentle guidance.

Postby LaurelSpring » Sun Sep 02, 2012 5:01 am

Cam! I cant thank you enough! Feelings have been welling up all day. It seemed like it was right there just ready to pop with some nudging and assistance. I honestly dont think I could have got over this hump without you.

It has been such a surreal sort of day for me after this. I couldnt look at the FB posts of other teachers, or pick up material. It all just dint seem very important anymore. I had started this Course in Miracles course before doing this with you and now I dont even know if I can continue with it or go to the group meetings. Its more like...if it arises that going will occur at the time it is scheduled to happen then I will. Hard to think about future now. Its just happening now. I dont have to think about it. Several situations that were causing stress have just seemd to drop away.

All day it has been like the exercise. Drinking, walking, watching, listening, seeing. I was alone all day so that made it somewhat easier. A somewhat difficult but interesting conversation occurred with my Mom (the real test..lol). It went something like this:

She: I am going to do this! I dont care what people think!
Me: if that situation should occur then you can decide at that time how best to handle it
She: I have been praying for this situation and that is why that happened
Me: intervention occurred
etc. Its like the usual button pushing thing was just done..no self, no defences, no buttons

One thing that has also been happening today and I dont know if this is normal so I would like to ask about it is that I seem to be going overboard in not referring to I or me as in regular conversation. Even just writing that last sentence feels awkward in some way because it still has to convey a certain communication. Maybe it helps to really sink it in for awhile to do this? Over and over today in thoughts correcting myself from ..I am walking to ..walking. Even thought the feeling is now of walking, the thoughts are still referencing the I as before. In the beginning does this generally happen with the thought process?

I guess I am ready for the confirmation questions! Feeling nervous like taking a test....lol What happens after that? Can I still contact you if a question arises? Do I move to a different after support forum and ask for someone else?

Im still so blown away that it has all gone so quickly here after all of these years and years of searching and seeking. Ok, I better stop typing now or more crying will occur!

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you!!!

Love and Hugs,
Laurel

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LaurelSpring
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Re: Seeking gentle guidance.

Postby LaurelSpring » Sun Sep 02, 2012 7:40 pm

Update: Leaving soon and will be attending a funeral tomorrow. Should be able to check back in Monday night. Have a safe and fun Labor Day!

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Re: Seeking gentle guidance.

Postby Cam-RT » Sun Sep 02, 2012 9:13 pm

Good afternoon, Laurel :^)

Thank you dear, for such kind words...Hey you did all the work! And quite beatifuly too!
Once we're through with confirmation, I will provide you with a link that will not only give you a little gift you can print for future reference, but also links to our ever growing commununity world wide, and after care in your newly attained liberation ( And I'd be honored if you friend me on Facebook also :^)
I had started this Course in Miracles course before doing this with you and now I dont even know if I can continue with it or go to the group meetings. Its more like...
Now that you've seen the truth, the world is your oyster. That's the thing now that your awareness is ramped up, feel free to challenge anything out there! The profile pic I chose here and on FB happened just after "IT" hit and my awareness and clarity seemed like it exploded that day, so when I found it I commemorated that day to that image, sounds weird but it's a constant reminder of how blessed I am to have this Gift...
A somewhat difficult but interesting conversation occurred with my Mom (the real test..lol).
Ya, now that we are seeing with new eye's, we need to keep in mind to try and be sensitive to those that are
"still asleep"... Here's another quote that refers to this...

"There is no " I " just the suits or faces or roles one must play to keep from freaking people out..."
One thing that has also been happening today and I dont know if this is normal so I would like to ask about it is that I seem to be going overboard in not referring to I or me as in regular conversation.
Ya, unfortunately it's a part of how we communicate with one another, the main this is that you "see" this and understand. What was and still is tough for me is watching T.V. in how they force feed the "self construct" thru the media/commercials...
In the beginning does this generally happen with the thought process?
Yes, I did for me until my dear friend that guide me said the same that I said above... ;^)
Feeling nervous like taking a test....lol What happens after that? Can I still contact you if a question arises?

Of course! ANYTIME! ....We are a part of a whole, we are all one here! Love and Hugs to you!!

Okay, please take your time answer the following questions ( when ready) and feel free to elaborate as much as you see fit on each question...

1)  Is there a 'me' , at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2)   Explain in detail what the illusion of self is, when it starts and how it works.

3) How does it feel to see this?

4) How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion ?

5) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you really look?
The illusion isn't destroyed...Just seen for what it 'Is'
Thoughts vs. Reality----->Reality always wins.
"Have courage...Don't give up!!"

http://cam-rt.blogspot.com

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LaurelSpring
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Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:36 am
Location: VA

Re: Seeking gentle guidance.

Postby LaurelSpring » Tue Sep 04, 2012 6:38 pm

Hi Cam!

I hope that you had a nice Labor Day holiday. It was nice to see family that I had not seen in many years at the funeral.

Once we're through with confirmation, I will provide you with a link that will not only give you a little gift you can print for future reference, but also links to our ever growing commununity world wide, and after care in your newly attained liberation ( And I'd be honored if you friend me on Facebook also :^)
This sounds great! Thank you!!! I would love to be FB friends also. I just sent you a request (from Fran) :-)
(Laurelspring Farm is the name of my parent's farm and I generally use it as an Id because I think its pretty)
Now that you've seen the truth, the world is your oyster. That's the thing now that your awareness is ramped up, feel free to challenge anything out there! The profile pic I chose here and on FB happened just after "IT" hit and my awareness and clarity seemed like it exploded that day, so when I found it I commemorated that day to that image, sounds weird but it's a constant reminder of how blessed I am to have this Gift...[/quote

Yes, I was thinking about this and I decided to continue with my plans regarding the ACIM group. At the moment I feel there is value there and if that changes, so be it. The that which is part feels inclined to go....lol
The image you picked is very striking! Good choice!
"There is no " I " just the suits or faces or roles one must play to keep from freaking people out..."
Good quote!
Yes, I did for me until my dear friend that guide me said the same that I said above... ;^)
This is good to know. I have been better about this over the last couple of days now. I let the conversation do its usual dance but maintain the sense of feeling the not I. I did however get really angry at my daughter last night. I watched as I, more calmly than usual, let the conversation flow out. There was anger and the bodily sensations associated with it, but the situation had a necessary flow with more clarity than usual to it just as the breathing and walking exercise etc.
Of course! ANYTIME! ....We are a part of a whole, we are all one here! Love and Hugs to you!!

This is such great news as I have generally felt so alone and unsupported in this. I am very grateful for you and this community and look forward to continuing and contributing in whatever way I can.

Time for the test!!!

1) Is there a 'me' , at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
After careful inquiry and consideration, I have come to see that there never was a "me" at all, anywhere having any shape or form. What I call me is just a collection of flesh, projections, programs and stories that seem to run on automatic and have gone unquestioned. What is behind those projections and stories cannot be grasped or named or owned. Appearances seem to rise and fall but cannot be claimed as me or mine. It just is.
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of self is, when it starts and how it works.
I have read a couple of theories regarding this. "A Course in Miracless" refers to it as "a tiny mad idea". The thought of separtness sort of thinking itself out. Some people seem to think that God is playing with himself and we all get parts in the play, but it wont be fun unless we dont realize its just a play. Jed McKenna has the "playful puppy" theory which is the one that I generally like the best because it makes me smile. Other people have theorized that the feeling of separation happens at some point in the developmental process of a child.

Honestly I have no idea whatsoever how the whole thing started or how it works. What I can explain is that there arose in me a desire to find the truth and ultimately this desire caused me to question everthing that I thought was real, including myself. The illusion of self incorporates a body, thoughts and feelings of ownership and doership. This is perpetuated by society and sense perception. It feels very real and substantial and important. As far as why it happens or keeps happening or why some people feel like questioning it or not is something I dont have an answer to. It seems pretty moot actually.... :-)
3) How does it feel to see this?
There have been several stages of feelings involved in this process. Initially it felt scary and lonely because I still wanted somehow to attach to a me and when that was gone it was very disorienting. With guidance and assistance here I was able to see that I was free. It felt like such an incredible relief. I was able to relax and let go of control and ownership and doership. Now life, or whatever it is, expresses through this projection of form you might say. There is more lightness and playfulness and joy. Everything is not so serious like it was so the suffering that had been experienced has lifted. Life is still being lived, but the attachment to the expression is gone.
4) How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion ?
First, I would not generally go trying to talk about it to anyone who has never heard about it because the one or two times I have tried it is pretty frustrating for both parties and is basically pointless. I have come to realize that the majority of people are quite satisfied in the illusion, even if they appear to suffer, and this is as it obviously should be or it would be different for them. Life is still being lived and expressed either way. If the desire somehow awakens in someone and seeking appears then I would be happy to try to describe it as best as I could.

There are some good analogies out there that work pretty well initially. These include the movie theater and Jed's Platos Cave thing. I have used a "Course" one about a child safe in bed having a bad dream saying that the parent doesnt try to get in the dream to make it better but gently tries to wake the child so it will know that it was just a dream. The Matrix movie theme is also an excellent way of describing it because it is a familiar idea.

I have gone over several way of explaining in my mind and I guess it would depend on where the person was. Mentioning that only what doesnt change is real is one thing that helped me and caused inquiry into finding what doesnt change. The exercise CAM had me do here with the typing was really helpful to me. Perhaps also taking experiences from life and using them as examples would be helpful also. Noting how dreamlike the past can appear or the seeming malleability of time or throwing in some quantum physics perhaps. I am rambling now...lol Honestly, I guess if the question arises, the answer will also!!!

5) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you really look?
The last bit was that exercise where I typed for 10 minutes I am ...(doing whatever was occurring in the moment) and then typed for 10 minutes without the "I am" part. This really released the feeling of the doership and the ownership in me and allowed the "whatever it is that is doing and expressing through me" to be recognized.


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