Ready to see - where do I start?

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Satya Shelly
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Ready to see - where do I start?

Postby Satya Shelly » Sun Aug 26, 2012 3:32 pm

Hello. I want to see what is real. Illusion intolerable. I think someone here can help me. Can you?

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SeeEye
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Re: Ready to see - where do I start?

Postby SeeEye » Sun Aug 26, 2012 3:41 pm

Hi,

I would like to help. Are you willing to be 100% honest about what comes up and available to post once a day?

I will ask you some questions, you will look and answer, and we will go from there.

Can you tell me a little about your search, your expectations about seeing and what things will be like?

Also, please tell me what you think your "self".

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Satya Shelly
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Re: Ready to see - where do I start?

Postby Satya Shelly » Sun Aug 26, 2012 4:32 pm

Thank you!

I am 47 years old, "seeking" for truth since the birth of my first child 16 1/2 years ago, started in Christian circles, left when that made no sense, reading A Course in Miracles, which makes much sense but takes a diligence I haven't seemed to be able to exhibit, studied yoga, spend a few months in an ashram in India in 2009, since returning there is a dullness to life, I am not engaged in it, which does not by itself seem "wrong;" I am just describing. My expectation is that I will KNOW what is real and what is not. I seem to be willing to deny what is not real, but haven't gotten to what IS real. I am in a kind of limbo.

Everything feels very loose, my grasp on things very very loose. I feel driven to know the truth, whatever that is. Whatever that is. Looking for a guide.

Because I am very willing to let go of beliefs, I have been led here and there by people who as it turns out don't see what is real and what is not real any more than I do. That is getting old. In other words I am gullible up front, but there seems to be a kind of truth barometer that eventually says loud enough "that's not it."

Yes I am willing to be honest and post daily and ask myself the questions you pose.

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Satya Shelly
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Re: Ready to see - where do I start?

Postby Satya Shelly » Sun Aug 26, 2012 4:36 pm

Oh and sorry, I forgot the "self" question. I sense that the thing I have known as my "self" is really just a loosely banded together bunch of thoughts. My "self" seems to be getting lost in my awareness. I don't really even know how to answer the question.

But I will say I have this fear that if I look too closely at something, anything, something "scary" will appear and annihilate the whole world. So I settle into compulsive activities much of the time I think to avoid this deep looking.

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SeeEye
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Re: Ready to see - where do I start?

Postby SeeEye » Sun Aug 26, 2012 5:52 pm

Thanks for the nice response.

This is a good place to start. Let me know what comes up with the questions, don't edit your thoughts or feelings. Lot's for you to work with here...don't just skim over the questions and come up with answers...live with them for a while, drill all the way though. You never know which one will be the gate.
But I will say I have this fear that if I look too closely at something, anything, something "scary" will appear and annihilate the whole world.
Because you are very willing to let go of beliefs...is that one you are willing to let go of or test in reality?

Sounds like you are afraid to lose something? What will be lost?

Seems that
I seem to be willing to deny what is not real, but haven't gotten to what IS real. I am in a kind of limbo.
You want to be set free from limbo, but don't want to lose something?
So I settle into compulsive activities much of the time I think to avoid this deep looking.
Not to avoid looking, to avoid what being true?
In other words I am gullible up front,
Someone is going to give something to you, because you think they have something that you don't?
but there seems to be a kind of truth barometer that eventually says loud enough "that's not it."
You have experiences, and then a part of you finally steps up and says loud enough "that's not it".

Tell me about the part that is saying "that's not it" that is separate from the other things that are "not it". How does this work?

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Satya Shelly
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Re: Ready to see - where do I start?

Postby Satya Shelly » Tue Aug 28, 2012 2:34 am

See Eye, I am just doing a test to see if I can post. I have written two very long replies to your questions and the site has not allowed me to post them.

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Satya Shelly
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Re: Ready to see - where do I start?

Postby Satya Shelly » Tue Aug 28, 2012 2:40 am

Ok so that worked; maybe my posts are too long, or have taken too long to write? I'll try to make it shorter this time. I am willing to let go of the belief and/or test the fear of annihilation. What am I afraid of losing? Face, mostly. Sanity, practical mind, for another. Material things, for a third, like home and comfort. I was not sure if a guru had something I didn't and could give it to me, but I was willing to check out the possibility. I am willing to let that possibility go in favor of seeing for myself what is true. Your last question about the "that's not it" voice being separate from that which is "not it" -- that came in the form of judging the teacher and his or her followers to be as lost as I was.

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Satya Shelly
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Re: Ready to see - where do I start?

Postby Satya Shelly » Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:35 am

To be honest, See Eye, it feels like I am dying. Like for the past two years or so I have been dying, little by little. Things, events, activities, people, no longer have much "pull" on me. I would once have labeled it depression, but I am not sad, I don't "miss" anything, or long for anything to be different. It just seems like everything is what it is supposed to be.

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SeeEye
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Re: Ready to see - where do I start?

Postby SeeEye » Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:14 pm

Hi,

I can be direct, but this is done out of a deep caring and to serve you and your work. I am going to skip over the content of your story, but use it for seeing. If we dig in the content, that is therapy. I will say that as I changed much about my life before, there were times when it took a while to adjust to leaving old stories, beliefs, identities and even friends behind. Sometimes that adjustment had all kinds of feelings with it - listlessness, boredom, and probably some of what you are feeling.

From my own experience, I did not lose my home, any of my possessions, and I still enjoy these. All the memories are there, all the practical knowledge is there...there just isn't a "self" that is real to claim ownership.
To be honest, See Eye, it feels like I am dying. Like for the past two years or so I have been dying, little by little. Things, events, activities, people, no longer have much "pull" on me. I would once have labeled it depression, but I am not sad, I don't "miss" anything, or long for anything to be different.
You have a sequence of experiences, and one "could" label it depression. Depression is a label that "points" to an experience. The label is language with the purpose of communicating similar (hopefully) information. Is the word "depression" the experience, or just the word/symbol?
Your last question about the "that's not it" voice being separate from that which is "not it" -- that came in the form of judging the teacher and his or her followers to be as lost as I was.
There is no such thing as a "form of judging the teacher" for it to come in...in came as internal dialogue/thought.

Some things are said inside your head and then another thought comes to label it judging. Do you see this?

Look into this...sit down and think on it. Use the examples and work on it, observe it happening in yourself.

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Satya Shelly
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Re: Ready to see - where do I start?

Postby Satya Shelly » Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:34 pm

See Eye, I do see that, that "depression" is a label for some experiences, and that the "that's not it" came in the form of internal dialogue. I will work with this, and come back. Thanks! Also, I appreciate directness.

SS

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SeeEye
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Re: Ready to see - where do I start?

Postby SeeEye » Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:43 pm

Hi SS,

What is happening for you ?

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Satya Shelly
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Re: Ready to see - where do I start?

Postby Satya Shelly » Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:08 pm

See Eye,

I can clearly see the difference between experiencing something and thinking about the experience of something; in fact what seems to be happening is that I follow thoughts away from experience. Like this morning, my teenage son was exhibiting behaviors and I right away went to labeling them and worrying about what they meant and telling myself a story about what they meant and what I should do to interfere with the behaviors ("help" him). When I could see that all going on, I could settle into the experience, and this led to a kind of quiet and in that space I could just experience the whole scene, him and me there in the car, windows open while he ate his breakfast, leaves on cottonwood trees fluttering in the breeze, breeze on skin, exquisiteness everywhere really, and I asked myself the question "where am I in all this," and I could not find myself in it at all, just a big bunch of happening, no real delineation between this and that, just occurring. My son too was just in all of the occurring. I dropped him off and now I have to go pick him up again so I will come back to you.

Shelly

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SeeEye
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Re: Ready to see - where do I start?

Postby SeeEye » Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:25 pm

I asked myself the question "where am I in all this," and I could not find myself in it at all, just a big bunch of happening,
Very good.

Experience is happening, then thinking comes in and labels, measures against an ideal, feelings arise that tell you it "feels right or not so right".

Is it possible for all of this to happen regardless of whether or not an "I" thought claims ownership?

Driving is happening. Look into this. How much steering is done without you saying "I steered 1 inch left" "I steered one inch right" "I" am applying brakes now. Most of this happens through the organism without thinking necessary, without a thought of "I" "did this". Does that thought "I' did this" create the action, or come just after acting took place?

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Satya Shelly
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Re: Ready to see - where do I start?

Postby Satya Shelly » Wed Aug 29, 2012 5:14 pm

See Eye,

I tried this with a lot of things, the thought does not seem to come before, rather, there is attention on what is happening and then a thought comes about it. I tried "planning" too -- like: "ok, I am going to count to ten and then move my hand into a fist. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 . . . " movement of hand into fist. But even that felt like noticing a happening. I mean that even though the thought may have led to the movement, I asked, where did the thought come from? Did "I" make the thought? Why that idea instead of a thousand others, like curling up my toes or wrinkling my forehead? Was there a conscious choice among those many others by some "I"?

I noticed also that most of the thoughts that arise seem to be like "echos" from past experiences, with no immediacy, in contrast to the immediacy of an experience.

SS

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Satya Shelly
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Re: Ready to see - where do I start?

Postby Satya Shelly » Wed Aug 29, 2012 5:53 pm

See Eye,

You also asked whether all the happening continues without an "I" claiming ownership. I have looked into this. Nothing seems dependent upon an "I." Even the 1,2,3 etc hand moving thing, I can't say that removing the "I" would undo the event. Even this conversation we are having, this back and forth, continues without a "me" owning even this part of it. Freaky -- I don't know who or what the "doer" is. Also funny -- I have always believed that I was going here and there, that I was doing this and that, that I was a "doer," and now I can't verify that. I can't find direct evidence of that in any happening.

Wow. What now? Feels suddenly like a simple adventure. There's a bit of a flippy feeling now, like a fish on a boat deck.

SS


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