Nick, Elena, and "T."

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Nick
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Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:53 pm
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Nick, Elena, and "T."

Postby Nick » Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:56 pm

T. - This thread will be for our 1-on-1 dialog. Others may read and follow along, but please refrain from posting.

I have a few rules and expectations for this conversation:
1. 100% honesty in our posts
2. we agree to post every day when possible, until we're both satisfied. some times we may both be online and we can chat for awhile, other days we may have only one post with hours of "turnaround" time. but lets keep at it with some consistency!
3. you agree to take a temporary break from other seeking activities such as reading books, retreats/satsangs, browsing spiritual websites, YouTube, etc. lets just focus on this "Direct Pointing" process for awhile.

So, lets get started.

First things first - lets identify and then THROW OUT any and all expectations about what "awakening" might be like. If you want to, feel free to respond by writing what your expectations might be, however unrealistic they seem.

Next, please write a bit and tell me - what does "I" mean to you?
Like · · Unfollow Post · July 30 at 5:58pm near Cleveland, OH

T. Ok...Expectations.....to finally erovocably end this search to experience the peace that may come with that. To live life open and free from the suffering caused by my belief in my thinking processes. To experience Joy, to Be happy.To not care what others are thinking. To be able to truly listen to what people are saying, to nature, to life, without atT.ing to the sometimes moronic overlay in thought......and love to be love to truly look into my toddlers eyes and be blown away with the Awe and Wonder that i sence he feels.....Just to finaly be ok with What is.
July 30 at 9:49pm · Like

T. I means this sence of atT.ment to the beief in me. I like what some one else said in your book 'meness' it's a subtle sence sometimes energetic (my interpretation) of who iam. It feels,when I ask what am I, like there is some heaviness in the background. I also have a faint picture of myself whenever I question this there is this faint sence of a picture of a me in here...... I haven't had to much luck with formal self inquiry....
July 30 at 9:50pm · Like

T. Thankyou for giving me your time.
July 30 at 9:51pm · Like

T. HI Nick apologies... new ipad user and it is late,,,thanks for letting me know,
July 30 at 9:54pm · Like

Nick Great. It's good to know what your expectations are explicitly. Now forget them! Lol
July 30 at 9:55pm · Like

Nick Ok you've defined "I" like a sense of heaviness, and a mental picture of someone named T. "in here". Does your little guy T. look like this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cartesian_Theater.svg
File:Cartesian Theater.svg - Wikimedia Commons
commons.wikimedia.org
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.5-2.0-1.0 CC-BY-SA-2.5-2.0-1.0 Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 2.5-2.0-1.0 truetrue
July 30 at 10:01pm · Like ·

Nick Ok, problem with this is... If he's inside you, who's inside him? lol
July 30 at 10:03pm · Edited · Like

Nick T., I say "you do not exist in real life, as in ZERO." what comes up when you consider this? Thoughts/feelings, fears, whatever.....
July 30 at 10:05pm · Like

T. Hi Nick yes some what like the picture you sent.
July 31 at 7:41am · Like

T. To the second question.....There is nothing that comes up it is like a spaciousness opens up and life appears within that within this there is a distant thought that is very vague that there should be more of an answer to your question but at present it is just open spaciousness.
July 31 at 10:45am · Like

Nick sounds cool... When this spaciousness happens, is your little guy T. still there "watching" it? When the spaciousness is there, whats going on with the rest of the world? Does this spaciousness go away eventually?
July 31 at 12:34pm · Like

T. Oh yes subtle at first but it's like there is an awareness of the spaciousness and that familiar sence on meness is in the background. Unfortunately it does start to ebb and the I sence comes in stronger. I was considering this on the drive home and really noticed that familiar sence present I see it as a feeling with a thought atT.ed but still it is there (believed in.
July 31 at 3:14pm · Like

Nick ok so sounds like a kind of "altered state" you're enjoying? Just forget about it. These states come sometimes from contemplation or meditation or just randomly. They can be enjoyable but they're only temporary. what we're after here isn't a state of mind, its much simpler. It's ok to feel this sense of meness, so what? Its like any other thoughts or feelings, just noise, not all of the thoughts are about something real. Its like thinking about a unicorn. The unicorn's not real, you can imagine it but thinking about it all day doesn't make it appear ... Just LOOK at this "sense of self," don't try to stop it, and see if there's anything REAL behind it. Lemme know.
July 31 at 3:22pm · Like

T. You are right it is more like an altered state.....
July 31 at 4:30pm · Like

Nick lets break it down. thoughts - can you control them? is there a thinker? where do thoughts occur, what location? can you see that "I" is a thought? can a thought think??
July 31 at 4:42pm · Like

T. Ok so looking at the meness and then seeing what behind first there is the spaciousness again and I come to a heavy sadness well it could be cant quite get to it I can't quite get in touch with it but it seems vast...Ok iam more connected toit as I retread your Q it's like deep vulnerability but still not fully in it..........I cannot control my thoughts, I look and look but neverfinda thinker thought just appears in awareness. Thought appears from nowhere there is no percievable locatio it like the thoughtis the same substance as awareness....can I see I as a thought I can see the perceptions I have of myself as thoughts memories etc and there's this rawness again as mentioned above. Thoughts cannot think the thought I cannot think.....will stick with this thru the day........
August 1 at 7:53am · Like

Nick yeah perfect just look at the thoughts coming and going, located nowhere/everywhere... all the stuff of "i" or self is made of these thoughts. its heavily structured, complex, but ultimately just thoughts. the thoughts are not the problem they are part of experience, but just noise, no experiencer. just keep LOOKING, there are millions of thoughts, SO WHAT, see if you can find a REAL "i" or a "witness" or an "experiencer"...
August 1 at 8:51am · Like

T. I continue to look for the witness which I have done before and what seems to happen is it turns into a quest... I can't find any thing but thought comes and tries to direct the looking and that subtle voice is there in the background with more thoughts....I continue to look asking if there is an experiencer just experiencing happening.....should I be asking questions internally or just looking?
August 1 at 4:12pm · Like

T. I will keep looking.......
August 1 at 4:14pm · Like

Nick look at those thoughts, who care, they can't do anything. the subtle voice is just another thought too. just noise. look for the real "self" in reality, and keep on not finding it!
August 1 at 4:41pm · Like

Nick the witness - this is the "last stand" of the self. the conventional idea of a self in control has been done away with, but these thought structures retreat into the position of the watcher or experiencer and establish themselves there. so just keep looking right at it, keep on NOT finding it in reality, root it out! you know all this crap already now you need to LOOK in real life. is there any separation between watcher, watched, and "watching"? Anything REAL, more than just thoughts and words? stop pretending to be some deluded seeker - forget about expectations and jump off the cliff.
August 1 at 4:48pm · Like

T. Thank you for you direct honesty .... Looking now I see the witness as another thought continuing to look there is such a potent pull to jump.......
August 1 at 10:16pm · Like

Nick Fuck it. You're at the Gate. Nothing to do, no-one to "make" it real. There is no you and you KNOW it. Give up and LOOK. Just let it happen.
August 1 at 10:20pm · Like

T. Iam still looking when ilook back to the perceived there appears to be a vast well of vulnerability I haven't been able to step off the edge....there is nothing real other than this vulnerability there's fear about dropping in....a thought comes that vulnerability is the same thing as love....there is frustration that nothing is happening.....iam not buying into that story just continue to look..the vulnerability is becoming stronger will report back in a while.....
August 2 at 10:40am · Like

Nick there are feelings of fear and vulnerability, but can you find the "me" that they belong to? frustration is fine, its just a thought. there's no magical event that needs to happen. there is ALREADY no self, so nothing to change, just relax and let go and LOOK, see it, click.
August 2 at 5:01pm · Like

T. Shit I have been so focused on some event that has been my biggest block iam always waiting for what I have read heard been told about I have been told so many times there's no event no need for an event but still there is waiting....thats where I have been all day in some holding state waiting for some thing to happen....
August 2 at 5:29pm · Like

Nick yeah i know, just forget it. disregard everything before and just LOOK, right here and now - is there a "me"?
August 2 at 5:36pm · Like

T. There is nothing to get. There is nothing but laughter, still seeing the insanity of waiting for nothing, a beautifull nothing.....
August 2 at 5:40pm · Like

Nick is there a self in any way? was there ever?
August 2 at 5:45pm · Like

T. There really is no one in here in this instant there is just direct experience there are memories/thoughts that arise in this space.....
August 2 at 10:15pm · Like

Nick What happened to T.? Was he real before but now gone? Was he always imaginary? Can he "come back"?
August 2 at 10:28pm · Like

T. Continuing to look the I sense has lessened considerably.i feel a lot of openness but there is still the familiar sence of i in the background. Still looking and asking wat is behind this...do these thoughts think....NO....Is there a separate me that I can find in this instance......NO ...there is still the fear present in my chest iam relaxing into this.....I have lost your last2 posts iam reading and rereading....Thankyou......
August 3 at 7:28am · Like

T. Is it helpful toread th
August 3 at 7:32am · Like

T. The LU book or should I drop that to.
August 3 at 7:33am · Like

T. Just rereading all old posts...I keep getting caught in deluded seeker...when I truly look now there is a vast fare havebeenheremanytimes I have dropped into this fear but always come thru (fuckingunscathed i still intact.......laughing....
August 3 at 7:58am · Like

T. Still laughing......
August 3 at 7:59am · Like

Nick cool. keep teetering at the edge of the gate. don't cling to any altered states - they WILL go away. When noticing there's no you, just let your body laugh or whatever, keep looking and see that it's ALWAYS been like this, nothing different or new now.
August 3 at 8:17am · Like

Nick fear is fine, its a defense mechanism doing its job, just let it say what it wants to say, meanwhile there's no real danger. Has there ever been a you, is there anyone who can get hurt or disappear?
August 3 at 8:20am · Like

T. What I meant to say was that I have dropped into the fear many times but come thru with I fully intact could see the lunacy of seeking.....
August 3 at 5:40pm · Like

Nick What is this "I" that remains intact? Is it anything more than a bunch of thoughts with a story? Is it really a real self that comes back, or just a costume, a character in a story?After all, There needs to be a character to interact with the other imaginary characters in the story... In other words, is T. the subject, for all life's experiences? Or is the story of T. just another experience WITHIN life?
August 3 at 6:09pm · Like

T. Hi Nick.... continued to look today...iam sensing the self lessenning..I don't find to much when I look....the fear has gone...I totally see the I as a bunch of thoughts and experience T. as a thought within the experiencing...
August 4 at 5:00pm · Like

Nick is this any different from any other moment?
August 4 at 5:01pm · Like

T. To be honest there is still a sense that although I can see the thought construct of I. I can't get beyond the energetic sence that seems to go with that. I sense a real burning happening with this interaction and am deeply grateful to your continued response. I can see the thoughts and the feelings/sensations within experiencing so is this energetic thing another belief?
August 4 at 5:08pm · Like

Nick sure, there are real thoughts, real feelings, real body, real energy. the BELIEF is that all this stuff together somehow equals "I"... the stuff is real, but its just stuff happening, real stuff but temporary, arising and going away, the "i" is just like a meta-event, a thought structure that asserts its own existence at the center of everything. just look and see if this thought is true...
August 4 at 5:13pm · Edited · Like

T. I had planned to see tony parsons today as I was close by with my job. I had made arrangements before we started this dialogue to go in between work......I didn't go obviously as part of our agreement but it did bring up this whole thing about the energetic aspect of I and the belief that there is nothing I can do to bring about liberation again because there is no me......there is just this continuing to look and the sense of a powerful burning going on in the heart..... My son wants me to crawl through his giant caterpillar.... Maybe I will find the butterfly....
August 4 at 5:20pm · Like

Nick caterpillar can't become butterfly. that's just a story. there never is a catepillar separate from life. never a butterfly separate from life. just one big life, and life occasionally "catterpillars". Sometimes it "butterflys", sometimes it "T.s".
August 4 at 5:53pm · Like

T. Thanks I will let my son know...actually he probably KNOWS...
August 4 at 7:03pm · Like

Nick of course hahahaha
August 4 at 7:04pm · Like

Nick eager to hear more form you T., just keep LOOKING and keep writing. if you want to meet up here for an extended chat, just let me know.
August 4 at 7:07pm · Like

T. Peering deeper into the self I have hit another layer of sadness probably fear just looking seeing if there is any I within it. It's pretty heavy this one I hope I'm not going round in circles. As I look into this it starts to dissipate. I can see that this is good food for the I thought. Looking there are thoughts but there is nothing I can locate as self.....I would to to do an extended chat I can probably make some time later in 4 hrs but may be to late for you are you behind us....Anyway lets do it when it works.
August 5 at 12:58pm · Like

T. It's actually good this type of feeling being present would have crippled me in the past, here now it's really ok as has been the fear I felt in the last few days there hasn't been that familiar impulse to change it or run like hell.
August 5 at 1:02pm · Like

Nick you keep peering and looking deeper and deeper. let's ask - "what is it that is doing this looking?"
August 5 at 1:26pm · Like

T. Mind stopped......blank....
August 5 at 4:15pm · Like

T. No words......nothing.......
August 5 at 4:18pm · Like

Nick is there any "you" at all? Not just right now in this special state, but EVER? At ANY moment during this life called T., was there a real you?
August 5 at 6:20pm · Like

T. It is another special state....good while it lasted...
August 5 at 7:36pm · Like

T. I can not find one moment not one instance of a real T. in this life it's like there's nothing there when looking no one...amazing is this just the special state? Who knows.....
August 5 at 7:40pm · Like

T. Ask me again tmoz....
August 5 at 7:40pm · Like

Nick No I think you're seeing it now T.... Now here's the thing, you've been to the gateless gate before, but not through because you still see it as a special gate to cross. Just drop that need. Right now you see the truth - there is no you. Tomorrow when you wake up and the "sense of self" is there, so what? It's STILL the truth that there is no you. The illusion won't go away permanently. Just see that it's always been like this. No you, even tho it seems like there is. :)
August 5 at 7:56pm · Like · 1

T. THANKYOU....
August 5 at 11:08pm · Like

Nick Hi T., how's it going over in the beautiful UK? Is there any "you"? Was there ever?
August 6 at 8:24am · Like

T. Hi Nick...I m have to say this is Fantastic...There is the illusion of T. appearing to no one this is great it's so obviouse...There is a kind of blank openness when I look for self....the same thoughts are appearing to a lesser extent but its like there just appearing to no one....It is all one huge vast sence of OK......there is the odd thought like is this really it....am I still in some state and the I is going to come back.....but there just floating through this big ok ness.....this is utterly simple it is exactly the same as before but there is no sense of a me init....it's very subtle.....The last post u made last night was so true when I woke up there was the old chestnut chattering away but it was like it was happening for no one....I woke up late for work but there was no sense that that was in any way a problem......it is like there is this vacant space when looking that is just full of beautifully emptiness.......just this openness with life appearing....no bells and whistles no life shattering satori or awakening event just typing on to the screen of life (iPad).... This is such a gift Thankyou......
August 6 at 11:13am · Like

Nick beautiful post, T.. please take your time in answering these following questions.
August 6 at 11:50am · Like

Nick ‎1) Is there a 'me', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.

3) How does it feel to see this?

4) How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion?

5) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you LOOK?
August 6 at 11:51am · Like

T. Hi Nick There is no me ican find anywhere in anyway shape or form there are thoughts arising like little galaxies on the outer rim of awareness....iam really looking to find just a hint of me and in this instant all I find is open space.....was there ever a me I can't find it it's like someone has gone inside and pressed delete on this me thing I can see vague memory but it's impersonal.....it's a rather odd sense......
August 6 at 2:14pm · Like · 1

T. I will answer the rest when I get back later.
August 6 at 2:15pm · Like

T. OK the elation I felt thru the day has started to wane this Is another movement in this space there is still nothing no one can be found of any substance but iam noticing a lot of thoughts doubts like....this is just a state....will this stick...I want to be absolutely sure 100%.....this could be a problem as when I try to find this one who wants this there is still no one of any substance to be found....anyway your thoughts would be appreciated before I continue answering the rest of the Qs Thanks
August 6 at 8:23pm · Like

Nick Yeah of course, the thoughts and feelings return again and again, they're habitual. So what? It's only that, thoughts and feelings. They are real, as in real thoughts, real feelings. But the CONTENT of the story is not real, just a story. The story will continue to present itself, it will say "I'm real, I'm T., etc". But this story is not presented to anyone, it's like a play with no author and no audience. It only exists as anything from WITHIN THE POINT OF VIEW of the story. In other words it's only "real" if the characters accept it as real, but the characters CANNOT accept it cos THEY are also not real.
August 6 at 8:47pm · Like

Nick The states can be blissful, so what? Don't cling to that bliss, it's wanting something to happen, which keeps a subtle "me" belief active. Whatever happens, even strong "me" thoughts, make no difference if the BELIEF in me is dropped.
August 6 at 8:51pm · Like

T. Hi Nick......got pulled back into the I thought with some work related issue. Had been feeling on a low ebb with the stream of doubts that became more persistent as the night went on.....took some time to look and still can't find any real I shifting back into the witness there is still space like openness nothing there....the same feeling is back from last night I see it's just a feeling but got a bit lost with expecting it not to be there....there is a part of me that feels I'm doing this wrong as I have been going in and out of this spaciousness for a few years on and off. Inately I know this is good as I have never had the consistent lack of being able to locate an I. Shit Its like ive got stuck in reverse.....
August 6 at 11:19pm · Like

Nick look, its not "you" going back and forth from I to witness to no-self! It's just "I thoughts...." then another time "witnessing" ... and other times "no-self..." - these are different experiences but the TRUTH is the same regardless, and the truth is that there is no permanent separate self experienc-ing all this stuff. It's like as if you had 3 pairs of glasses and you keep switching them, the world will look different depending upon what glasses, but it's the SAME WORLD the whole time, just different views, different experiences.
August 7 at 8:20am · Like

Nick so T. just stop BELIEVING that whatever experience is happening determines reality, it doesn't! REALITY, TRUTH is the same regardless of what "you" are seemingly experiencing. This "you" is the illusion. Who cares if it comes back?! It has no power, no authority.
August 7 at 8:22am · Like

T. Hi Nick still no self there....
August 7 at 9:43am · Like

Nick never is or was... you can look anytime you like. illusion of self only, and the illusion is just harmless noise. plz answer those 5 questions T., see how it feels, if you're not satisfied we can continue probing...
August 7 at 9:55am · Like

T. I read the words in your last post but feel consumed in a well of sadness brimming from my heart and a sense that some where I'm still not getting this. I feel gutted as it was so clear yesterday....and in someway I feel I'm letting you down.....is it that this is what supposed to happen after the gate...if I look with honest there is no one there just this I think there are still expectations that this should be different I should be able to allow this without getting so consumed I having trouble just noticing this as another appearance in awareness.......
August 7 at 10:20am · Like

Nick i have no expectations for you T., there is no "failure"... i see T. as what it is, a cool story, a beautiful awake expression of life and awareness, not a separate suffering person... but the story of nick wants to celebrate freedom with the sotry of T., lol.
August 7 at 10:26am · Like

Nick if there's sadness, lets check it out together. just let it rise up and bring it close, feel it and let it burn thru. its just a story, too, so find out what it has to say. ask your sad heart what it wants...
August 7 at 10:28am · Like

T. Sounds great lets doit....had the thought Nick thinks..fuck almost had this one in the bag and shipped off to happyland.....had to lighten this with some humour...it's
August 7 at 10:34am · Unlike · 1

T. I do really no that you would have no expectations for me but felt right to post the thought...Thankyou......wow I feel a lot more free after that laughter....ok helps to read the top post first.....I will answer the question as requested....
August 7 at 10:41am · Like

Nick i think you've seen this thing some time ago, and just needed some re-assurance and permission to let go. I understand what you're saying about the sadness, too, so if you still want to explore that, i'm here for you buddy ♥
August 7 at 10:43am · Like

T. Thanks.......ok so is this sadness just another experience moving thru life but has no real connection with the seeing that there is no one? Let's be clearer getting pulled into this sadness and the story around it has is completely separate from the realization that there is no and has never been a self? If so then it's all ok there doesn't need to be peace joy openness clarity for liberation to bee seen to be lived its just another aspect of life appearing in awareness and the story is getting involved not I is that right?
August 7 at 11:07am · Like

Nick YES, TOTALLY!
August 7 at 11:11am · Like

Nick this is clarity, understanding, SEEING the truth of no-self. but if you're feeling sad, we should do something about that too... did you ask your heart what it wants?
August 7 at 11:12am · Like

T. I think it want the something to be free to love to be felt (I have been blocking off from it over the last few years).
August 7 at 11:19am · Like

T. The same thing to be free
August 7 at 11:20am · Like

Nick wow. thank your heart for telling you this. let your heart know that it's being listened to...
August 7 at 11:22am · Like

Nick give your heart PERMISSION to be free. there's nothing in the way, it can love, it can be felt, it's ok...
August 7 at 11:24am · Like

T. OK good feeling pretty raw so going to allow this to settle bit THANKYOU
August 7 at 11:38am · Like

Nick ok T., let me know if you want to try more of this "deep looking" emotional stuff. Or just get back to me with any updates, answers to the "5 questions", whatever. You call the shots.
August 7 at 11:41am · Like

T. Hi Nick...was just in the grocery store when my mind drifted into seeing I noticed that iam the awareness that encompasses all....this is all there is whether it's sadness joy laughter doubts and Nappies yeah nappies...that is where I was standing in the nappie isle I laughed and god laughed too or thru as the case may be......
August 7 at 2:57pm · Like

Nick Tell me more about the nappies. i think i get what you might mean when you say "i am the awareness that encompasses all," although its maybe an unfortunate choice of words for this No-Self website - but that's MY bias lol... but thx for keeping it honest, please elaborate using whatever words YOU choose, let me know what this moment was like. Was it a notable shift or revelation for you?
August 7 at 3:45pm · Like

T. Sorry couldn't help adding that fact.It felt a bit of an irony to have this in the nappie isle.....It was a definite shift (mind just tried to downgrade it to a revelation). I was aware of the the isle and noticed mind turning in to find nothing which shifted me into a completely different space where I noticed that I wasn't the I perceiving form in the form of nappies etc but the awareness that contains that I perceived and all that appears init (there's a little thought right now trying to diminish this). This wasn't an all powerful realization again it was very normal and non descript in a way. So I'm now in a happier state than earlier but it's just a state no different in a sense than being weighed down earlier ( mind says Fuck off is it!!!) sorry had to put that one in.
August 7 at 4:44pm · Like

T. Sorry will try not t use expletives in future posts.
August 7 at 4:51pm · Like

Nick fuck that
August 7 at 4:51pm · Like

Nick ah i think i see what you are saying... there was awareness of the nappies and awareness of the "i", but without a sense of identity AS the I, is that correct? If so, then is it really true that "I AM awareness" if there is nothing separate? In other words, if you are everything, then there's nothing that's NOT you, so by logic, nothing really IS you, either, get me? I'm trying to help us finesse this experience so that you don't mistakenly IDENTIFY as the witness again. There should be NO SEPARATION between awareness and the "objects" in awareness...
August 7 at 4:58pm · Like

T. Great I like the finesse thing... Iam not as good with my interpretation in the...right now if I look there is nothing filled with everything it is so subtle it's easy to look beyond miss it....though if you are asking have I directly experience my self or the greater self as every thing in the clear way others have expressed it then I don't know not in a clear enough way for me to think wow that's what they meant....maybe iam back to revelation? Please help me with this I'm not sure if I'm missing something and want clarification.
August 7 at 7:06pm · Like

T. This is really good this is a huge stumbling block for me as I have equated liberation with seeing yourself as everything without doubt......I'm not saying that I absolutely haven't seen that but not in a un doubtable way....right now if I look for the witness I see something looking for the witness which is kind of like the play thing you spoke of all this is subtle and could be semantics?
August 7 at 7:13pm · Like

T. Or you are just about to retract my certificate.
August 7 at 7:14pm · Like

Nick ‎"right now if I look there is nothing filled with everything" - awesome.
August 7 at 7:23pm · Like

Nick ‎"I have equated liberation with seeing yourself as everything without doubt" - ahhhh, ok, so this is where the EXPECTATIONS things come into play. you have a preconceived notion of what this is all about, so lets just forget it. Take this cool insight you have from the nappies aisle, and lets look at it TOTALLY FRESH, without being allowed to use anybody else's words but your own (and i'm pretty sure that 'nothing filled with everything" is YOURS T., and very good at that)...
August 7 at 7:27pm · Like

T. So...still on track for the certificate then.
August 7 at 7:27pm · Like

Nick so when you look right now, is there any "self" required? that includes the so-called "big-Self" as well as the little T. self... what if there really is no subject, no witness, no "everything-Self", but just... EVERYTHING?
August 7 at 7:28pm · Like

Nick dude, on your way to a PhD...
August 7 at 7:28pm · Like

T. In this instant there is seeing there is nothing seeing everything in the room the clock ticking little one sleeping on my lap listening to his breathing this is it this is all there is.....
August 7 at 7:35pm · Like

Nick beautiful T.... I'm with you RIGHT NOW, just seeing, just typing, everything just happening on its own. No you, no me, just a cool story with 2 cool characters having a conversation... its always like this. sometimes those characters forget they're not real - no big deal, truth abides :)
August 7 at 7:41pm · Like

Nick love talking with you. we guide each other to the gate, over here its just like the first time... thank you!
August 7 at 7:42pm · Like

Nick i gotta go cook dinner soon. you enjoy eternal splendour my friend. answer those pesky 5 questions when you get a chance, take your time there's no hurry. talk to you later.
August 7 at 7:44pm · Like

Elena Nezhinsky ‎"I noticed that iam the awareness that encompasses all.." Awarness is. What is has to do with you? Let me know.
August 8 at 3:07am · Like

T. Hi Elena....do you mean what does awareness have to do with me?
August 8 at 9:15am · Like

Nick she means, what is this "I" in the sentence "I am the awareness..."? I told you, that choice of words was unfortunate,lol. To be honest, the statement does raise some red flags about a witness. I think you were struggling to find the words to describe the nappy aisle epiphany, and you fell back on familiar phrases you heard from other people... you addressed it with me last night, T., and I'm satisfied. But please just re-state where you're at right now.
August 8 at 9:26am · Like

T. Hi Nick thanks for clarification....yes I tend to express this in the way that I have been listening to from variouse teachings.....I think it's important that we get this clarified....I don't have crystal clear memory on the whole...so my interpretation was somewhat vague....
August 8 at 9:38am · Like

T. Ok right in this very instant there is seeing...looking at the looker with eyes closed there is nothing and a sensation of falling like I can't grasp onto anything......This is still somewhat subtle the sadness and feelings from yesterday have all gone there is just a good ( not special aliveness)....Oh and last night I looked into my sons eyes and there was such beauty and aliveness in a very ordinary way....
August 8 at 9:46am · Like

T. I think you were right that I have seen this sometime ago but got lost in expectations of what should happen, events etc...
August 8 at 9:49am · Unlike · 1

Nick cool, answer 5 questions when you get a chance...
August 8 at 9:51am · Like

T. If you or Elana or any one has any red flags please let me know as there are still the odd doubt surfacing although a lot less and just floating thru...
August 8 at 9:55am · Like

Nick well, lets answer those questions, that's what they are for. when you do, Elena and I and several others will review everything. trust me if there are any substantial doubts from us or you we will address them mercilessly.
August 8 at 9:58am · Like

Nick no pressure though, lol
August 8 at 9:59am · Edited · Like

T. Fuck and I have just bought the frame for the certificate.....
August 8 at 10:02am · Unlike · 1

Elena Nezhinsky Do you exist?
August 8 at 11:23am via mobile · Like

T. Nick 1) Is there a 'me', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.

3) How does it feel to see this?

4) How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion?

5) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you LOOK?
Ok to the first one....In this moment there iOS no me that can be found there is life appearing to nothing thoughts appear within that space...there is a deep sence of calm and this subtle sence of aliveness that is recognised as being very familiar to life as a child (iam editing out the me word just in case you take some points off...NICK). Was there ever a me I look and look and look but cannot find one it's like I said in an earlier post that something has pressed the delet button...I can't find me nothing nada not even a trace when I look....there are thoughts that suggest a me at points thru the day like we spoke about arising in awareness......
August 8 at 11:51am · Like

Elena Nezhinsky Do you exist?
August 8 at 11:55am via mobile · Like

T. Hi Elena do I exist......when I look I don't find anything but it somehow feels that there is.....I don't know is the honest answer....if I take time to answer the question that I answered earlier I couldn't find a witness......I'm going round in circles here.....I'm not sure if iam getting lost in doubt.......when u ask it's not like I get a resounding no......it like there's a looking then finding nothing so who is this looker......sorry if this is a bit jumbled.
August 8 at 7:05pm · Like

T. On the drive home after answering Q1 I noticed a few me thoughts and started to doubt if what I wrote....it was honest at the time of writing......This maybe down to comparison with other peoples experience I hae to trust in this and not compare.
August 8 at 7:09pm · Like · 1

Elena Nezhinsky ‎"who is this looker"

is there has to be some looker to be looking?, is there has to be a little guy inside the computer run programs? Is there has to be a little guy in the head to make blood flow and looking happening? Is there has to be a rainmaker for raining? Are there has to be managers for life flowing in a way it is?
August 8 at 7:17pm · Like

T. No it is just happening all by its self looking is just looking.....thoughts appear within looking notto a LOOKER!....
August 8 at 9:01pm · Like

Elena Nezhinsky so if you see, you do not need a certificate. If you do still have some doubts - lay it out. Just pour it here, so we can go from there. Not you, not us want you to get fake certificate. You wont be satisfied and will still be in search and seeking for the resolution. So let it all out now. What is still missing?
August 9 at 12:47am · Like

T. Thankyou.....absolutely....ok great...some of these are barely noticeable but will try and lay it all out as you requested....today I have been aware of the Question you posed last night...do you exist....there is areal sence of aliveness and when I ask this question there is still nothing..so here are the doubts.....that this is not fully it that this is just another state...there should be a sence that this is done finished I absolutely 100% no that there is no self that I do not exist.....
August 9 at 8:47am · Like

T. I can see that there would need to be some one there to get those things but anyway there are the doubts.....yesterday I noticed that its a beautiful thing to have T. in this space and now in a way this can really be enjoyed life is a lot more fun this way.......
August 9 at 8:55am · Like

T. Thanks to whoever posted matt optionals post......that is it I can not find anything separate that needs or wants proof there is aliveness just being aliveness....how insane to see that thought thinks a proof of aliveness will in someway make aliveness more alive and the now more now than now.
August 9 at 10:13am · Like

Nick So, yes or no, do you exist? And, what is asking, and what is answering?
August 9 at 10:58am · Like

T. There is no one who could know this is it, that which wants all doubts answered is a thought arising in this un knowingness.
August 9 at 10:58am · Like

Nick So, yes or no, do you exist? And, what is asking, and what is answering?
August 9 at 11:08am · Like

T. No...what's asking....a thought what's answering another thought arising in this.....I don't know space...isnesss
August 9 at 11:35am · Like

Nick is this different from "before"? was there ever a self in reality?
August 9 at 12:31pm · Like

T. No.....apologies...had to be sure we'll thought did...
August 9 at 3:06pm · Like

Nick ‎?? your last post a bit garbled... speaking in tongues? lol
August 9 at 3:35pm · Like

T. Hi Nick..shit I thought I had my evangelism pretty well hidden.....
August 10 at 10:42am · Like

T. This is great....nothing much happening still being...Will take some time today to answer the rest of the questions...
August 10 at 10:48am · Like

Nick ok
August 10 at 10:52am · Like

T. Is there a me in any shape or form....No....Hasthere ever been....No...this is all there is and has ever been, Thought arise within this instant that may suggest images of a past of a T. but there is definitely no separate T. that can be found....
August 10 at 12:43pm · Like

T. The separate self is a thought cluster arising within the space the aliveness of this instant this moment. This identity construct appears from no where and due to misidentification with sensations in the body ( feelings) it is mistaken to be real and assumed to be who we are. Although in a somewhat schizophrenic sence, like there is someone controlling from the back of the mind. It works by latching on to thoughts or other stimuli and turning that stimuli into meaning, which in of itself snowballs into more identity making the illusory self stronger.
August 10 at 12:56pm · Like

T. How does it feel to see this.....fantastic it is alll utterly ok a big sumptuous OK. In a way life is completely the same although with a real depth and sence of aliveness that is actually very familiar in a way similar to childhood innocence......and it's interesting that the me thoughts still arise but they are just seen as that thoughts maybe with a little charge behind them...One great thing I love is iam actually really enjoying being T. again it's another wondrouse arising in this....
August 10 at 1:27pm · Like

T. I haven't got a clue how I'd describe this to someone who's never heard of it....I really don't know....Ok that there is nothing real to lose in taking a moment to have a look and see if what you perceive your self to be is who you really are......I would direct them to the LU Hub if they were interested......
August 10 at 1:43pm · Like

T. Reflecting on the question 3 .....my answer is I don't know what I would say......
August 10 at 5:29pm · Like

Nick And question 5?
August 10 at 7:59pm · Like

T. Apologies the above post was meant to be Question 4......I don't know what I would say....
August 10 at 10:20pm · Like

T. Hi
August 11 at 6:16am · Like

T. Hi Nick....sorry had a busy night last night, I did write question 5 but forgot to post it and now it's gone will write again today.......
August 11 at 6:18am · Like

T. The last push came when Nick reminded me that there is no event no big awaking experience and realising that in truth who would experience an event/ awakening anyway when there is no self to be found within this instant....From that point life is much more alive and vivid there is still the same thoughts and feelings to some degree but they rise and fall in this aliveness....
August 11 at 9:39pm · Like · 1

Elena Nezhinsky Any remaining doubt?
August 11 at 9:48pm via mobile · Like

T. Hi I have taken along time to write this question and wrote as you requested earlier on to just doit. I think this is it...but am still experiencing this sadness I don't want to go round and round in circles and have you going over and over the same ground with me so am seeing it as part of the unfolding after seeing thing, On the whole I feel more alive and when the sence of self has arisen with some charge have continued to look and see there's nothing there....
August 11 at 10:06pm · Like

Elena Nezhinsky Ask sadness to tell you why it arisen. Trust the wisdom of the feeling. Ask explicitly, like you would ask a friend for his input. So ask sadness what it has to tell you. Then become very quiet and wait for the answer. Let us know.
August 11 at 10:35pm via mobile · Like

T. Ok so here goes.... Looking at this sadness as I look it wells up becoming stronger in the heart....asking the question....the response I get is iam losing something......I ask what are you losing....the answer is protection.....i ask protection from what it says.....from you....iask why....because you live a lie you prefer safety over love you push me away.........
August 12 at 10:30am · Like

T. Thankyou Elana Thankyou Nick for being with me thru this.....
August 12 at 10:32am · Like

T. The sadness is still raw in the body will sit with it....
August 12 at 10:33am · Like

unknown. Really thank the feeling. But tell sadness you are ready to step forward. You don't need this protection anymore. Ask it to relax and rest. Just like you would ask your mom if she would still worry about you.
August 12 at 10:34am via mobile · Like

T. Thankyou Elena...the feelin has moved up into my head......
August 12 at 10:49am · Like

Elena Nezhinsky Ask the mind if it ready ti relax now
August 12 at 11:05am via mobile · Like

Elena Nezhinsky Any feeling arises - pleasedo not run or disregard. Invite closer and ask for the wisdoms it brought to you now. Then become very quiet and listen. Appreciate the feeling, protection, but look deeper. Ok? Let me know later how was it for you. Have a great Sunday, friend!
August 12 at 11:08am via mobile · Like

T. There is relaxing taking place now.....Thankyou Thankyou thankyou I will......
August 12 at 1:33pm · Like

T. Thankyou it all settled down.....This is so much more natural it's nothing special at all it's just being alive absolutely ordinarily alive not aware of being in the moment just what is living life. I see it there is and has never been two there is just this it's so obviouse in a divine nondescript sort of way.
August 12 at 7:03pm · Like · 1

Nick Ok T., glad its better. Give us an update of everything. Where you at? How's it feel? Anything different now from "before"?
August 12 at 10:55pm · Like

Elena Nezhinsky I really loved what you came back with, friend ♥
August 13 at 2:45am · Like

Elena Nezhinsky Let's answer Nick's questions and print that paper :)
August 13 at 2:46am · Like

T. Hi...all good here awoke this morning with a residue of sadness which I invited and it has moved up.....Today is pretty normal I notice when speaking with people there is much more joy and laughter iam amazed at the ordinariness of this it's seems that there there was a layer of perceiving life thru mind has dropped away and there is just life normal life?.....That's where iam right now with it....
August 13 at 8:49am · Like

T. A Huge Thankyou to Nick for being a very clear guide....Lots of Love and blessings to you Nick, I will miss reading your posts.....
August 13 at 9:49pm · Like · 1

T.
I did receive what may have been a deep perception thru the eyes of my two year old a few days ago, he climbed on my lap as I was writing apost and looked at your photo and said....mane looka lika umpalumpa.....now it could have been in ref...See More
August 13 at 10:01pm · Like

Nick My face does look very orange in that photo...
August 14 at 1:27am · Like

Elena Nezhinsky ‎T. , I have one more question. So what is the difference for life itsel if sadness present or not?
August 14 at 2:26am via mobile · Like

T. life doesnt care whether theres sadness present or not.
August 14 at 4:59pm · Like

Elena Nezhinsky Anything missing from understanding?
August 14 at 5:06pm via mobile · Like

Elena Nezhinsky ‎T.
August 15 at 8:44am · Like

T. Hi Elena.....Sorry about this but can you define the question for me please are you asking if there is anything missing from the understanding that there is no self and never has been?.....
August 15 at 10:13am · Like

T.
H Elena....I feel pretty bad at having to write this but have to keep reminding myself that this is about 100% honesty....iam confused as I think there has been the seeing that there is no self yet there seems tobe wave after wave of sadnes...See More
August 15 at 10:34am · Like

Elena Nezhinsky Please don't worry about wasting time :) ok? So why would you think that sadness is not a valid flow of life, just like overcast or raining? So where is a doubt? Do you have expectations that it should be certain way? Look again is there you in any shape or form in the reality?
August 15 at 10:54am via mobile · Like

T. Hi thanks...I can see that logically that sadness is as valid as happiness but in realit
August 15 at 12:25pm · Like

T. Reality it's thru a sence of resignation
August 15 at 12:30pm · Like

T. That I experience sadness. In life there is just life being lived in the experience of sadness or the form of sadness.
August 15 at 12:34pm · Like

Nick Are you saying that because "you" have this sense of resignation, "you" are experiencing sadness? Just check and see if there isn't a tiny clinging left, a subtle belief that this shit is somehow happening to you.
August 15 at 12:51pm via mobile · Like

T. Hi sorry about that last message was a bit garbled.....yes that is what I was trying to get at Nick....It still feels personal....anyway the answer is yes....when I said that life doesn't care if sadness is present or not... I see that isn't my direct experience.
August 15 at 5:05pm · Like

Nick how CAN there be "my" direct experience? Explain to me how this is anything more than a story.
August 15 at 5:19pm · Like

T. You are right when I look it is just a story...iam getting confused with the feeling sensation that is powerful in the moment of direct experiencing....there just is feeling arising with the acosiated thought that doesn't want it to be this way.......is this more about expectation than no self?........
August 15 at 9:12pm · Like

T. Also I seem to get stuck with the looking it's like I have to remind myself to look for self which I take as being dualistic......in reality is it just life looking or just looking?
August 15 at 9:16pm · Like

T. Sorry...is it life just looking...
August 15 at 9:25pm · Like

Elena Nezhinsky no, just drop looking and live sadness. that's all.
August 15 at 9:40pm · Like

T. Ok thanks that's where I was stuck there was an awareness of sadness a looking at sadness...so just live sadness which is the case anyway...
August 16 at 10:28am · Like

Elena Nezhinsky tell me how is going now, T. ..
August 16 at 5:44pm · Like

T. Hi Elena.....I feel much closer living sadness....it's seems to be getting stronger....allowing it to do its thing as it ebbs and flows....Thankyou
August 16 at 9:21pm · Like

T. Actually this feels a little odd as iam so used to running away from sadness that just allowing it is really ok noticing the thoughts and comparisons come and go...sometimes getting a bit involved in a storyline but it's just sadness in the fullness of this moment accompanied by the occasional thought......
August 16 at 9:46pm · Like

Elena Nezhinsky Keep inviting sadness even closer. Ask what it brings today. Listen quietly. Appreciate the wisdom. Let me know what the wisdom is today.
August 17 at 12:40am via mobile · Like

T. Hi Elena....apologies posted last night but fell asleep mid post without pushing return......Sadness has been ebbing and flowing it seems to almost dissipate then arise I suppose like a wave.....Having asked the sadness for its wisdom I have had no verbal response, It does get stronger while asking but no verbal communication......
Saturday at 7:28am · Like

T. I presume the response is to allow it to have its life?
Saturday at 7:30am · Like

Elena Nezhinsky Do not presume. Ask with focus once. Shut the mind. Listen. Takes a minute with good inner focus. just like looking. Same total focus.
Saturday at 9:30am via mobile · Like

T. Ok....iam doing as requested.....sadness comes up to the throat...now I will ask what it wants.....it says....I think its the same to protect me.....I will ask what from.....letting go falling into this nothingness........I thank it for sharing wisdom.......
Saturday at 10:53am · Like

Elena Nezhinsky nothingness includes all - all life. the only what is nothing - is "I" that never even was there, was there as a construct in the mind. there is nothing to protect you from anymore. Thank the sadness and tell it that there is no nothingness :) Its fullness. Totality of all there is.
Saturday at 12:13pm · Like

T. Thankyou.....
Saturday at 6:00pm · Like

Elena Nezhinsky is there you in any shape or form in the reality?
Saturday at 8:51pm · Like

T. Hi Elena....I have fallen much deeper into sadness since the communication last night.....I can't find a me in reality.....but there are a alot of me thoughts arising in conjuct with this sadness.....it seems to have centred around the heart....I did another dialogue and was told that it wants freedom which I invited it into.............
Sunday at 8:39am · Like

T. I'can see that the I thought it wrapped around this sadness it usually pulls me into depression....it seems abstract now as there is some identification but in a more unatT.ed way.....trying to notice and see thru when the thoughts arise with some success....i think it's all ok.....
Sunday at 10:11am · Like

T.
Hi....have just been reading freddys thread fantastic....I see there is all this happening the sadness the space in which it is happening the typing the air conditioning hitting my face there is just this one experience happenning the thoug...See More
Yesterday at 10:19am · Like

Nick yeah T., just let it relax... no need for tension or striving. it's ok to use normal language, it's ok for the 'I' thoughts and feelisgs to appear. If you try to fight them, it's a pretend 'I' fighting, lol!
Yesterday at 10:30am · Like

Nick and please answer Elena's question when you are ready...
Yesterday at 10:31am · Like

T. Answer to Elena s Q.......No No cant find anything...No confusing thoughts trying to catch me out ...No doubts....nothing apart from this experience of what is there really is nothing apart from this I can clearly see that everything is arising simultaneously perfectly just like the metaphore of the wave and the ocean the wave looks real feels real smells real tastes real but is just the ocean waving.....
Yesterday at 11:35am · Like

Nick how does it feel to see this?
Yesterday at 11:42am · Like

T. Hi Nick......It feels good there is no wow experience it is relatively ordinary but in a good way......It was great to see the ocean waving.....I could literally see the ocean turning into a wave and wave at me probably a bit corny but glowing at the time.....
Yesterday at 5:09pm · Like · 1

Nick Take a minute to describe the illusion of separate self and how it operates.
Yesterday at 6:28pm · Like

T.
Ok will do the best I can.....Ultimately the seperate self is the hulucination of a dreamer that appears in conjuct with specific thoughts and feelings atT.ing a sence of seeming control over what is appearing within the dream...This give...See More
23 hours ago · Like

Nick ok how would you explain it to someone new, who's never heard of this shit before...
23 hours ago · Like

T. I really don't know.........
21 hours ago · Like

T. Depending on the person I might describe the seperate sence of self and briefly how it works and if open would suggest they contact you.....maybe if really open ask them to describe what life would be without that you ness in it at all as in totally gone?..........who knows every situation is different......
21 hours ago · Like

Elena Nezhinsky My ihope didnt record message before. Anyways, Thanks T. for the awesome focus to look. Much love, friend! ♥
21 hours ago · Like

Nick T., what pushed you over this latest apparent "obstacle"? what made the looking happen?
20 hours ago · Like · 1

T. What pushed me over was reading Freddie's Thread....In the part where seeing occurs he had a really good dialogue with himself and it inspired me to write my post just to see what happened...I think the writing allowed the pain to uncoil and this enabled a seeing through the confusion that there was a me inside the pain........
12 hours ago · Like

Nick cool... T. is there anything missing from your understanding?
10 hours ago · Like

T. No......
8 hours ago · Like

Elena Nezhinsky ♥
8 hours ago via mobile · Like

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