truthmonger's liberation thread

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Nick
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truthmonger's liberation thread

Postby Nick » Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:56 pm

the following dialog took place between "truthmonger" and "Nick" on the facebook Liberation Unleashed Gate group.

Elena
‎Paul , welcome to Facebook LU Gate. We are volonteers, we do not charge anything. What we ask is total dedication to the process. 100% attention on what guide is asking you to look for. Nick will be working with you. Enjoy the looking, Paul. Take your time to look and answer, but check with your guide at least once a day, seems like this does work the best.
Like · · Unfollow Post · Tuesday at 1:32am

Elena Ok, let me ask you initial question, and then we see where you are and whats needed. So when you say 'I", what is that you exactly mean, Paul? Explain.
Tuesday at 1:43am · Like

Nick Paul this is your thread for our 1 on 1 dialog. Others, feel free to follow along but plz refrain from butting in. Thanks!
Tuesday at 1:44am · Like · 1

Nick Paul please take a minute to intro yourself. Why are you here? What are your expectations? Any doubts or fears? Don't feel like you have to sound smart or wise this is casual talk between ordinary people.
Tuesday at 1:46am · Like

Nick AND answer what elena said.... Sorry we were typing simultaneously lol. If I don't get back to you till tomorrow, sorry. It's ass late here.
Tuesday at 1:48am · Like

Paul Sounds good, but can we do this sometime tmrw? Was just about to go to sleep . Lol Don't you people sleep? Haha Thanks, Nick. Looking forward to it.
Tuesday at 1:48am via mobile · Like

Nick Looking forward to hearing from you tomorrow. Sleep well.
Tuesday at 1:49am · Like

Paul Elena, if there is operating from mind, there will be lots of ideas, thoughts, concepts about what the hell I think it is . If there is operating from spaciousness, calm , quiet, then "I" dont have a clue that the hell it is. Lol
Tuesday at 1:51am via mobile · Like

Paul You too, nick
Tuesday at 1:53am via mobile · Like

Paul You asked, why I'm here, expectations , etc. I have no expectations, and I would say the main reason I'm here, is to serve others. Doubts, fears? Maybe there are doubts , in the sense, can anything really be "known." Fears, nah.
Tuesday at 11:01am · Like

Nick ok. that's admirable. when you answered elena's question, you split your answer, one answer for "if operating from mind" and one answer from "spaciousness". Forget that. Reality doesn't care what state of mind you are in. Explain to me what is "I" - in reality.
Tuesday at 11:09am · Like

Paul The thing is, if I engage in memory, it will not only probably be a different answer, but have a different quality, than when I'm in, "awareness of consciousness."
Tuesday at 11:11am · Like

Paul I suppose
Tuesday at 11:11am · Like

Paul I would simply say, "I" is a label
Tuesday at 11:12am · Like

Nick you're state DOES NOT MATTER.
Tuesday at 11:12am · Like

Paul lol
Tuesday at 11:12am · Like

Nick ok "i" is a label. when and where does it occur, in realation to real life, experience
Tuesday at 11:13am · Like

Paul It occurs when I'm identified with it--when I believe it to be "true."
Tuesday at 11:14am · Like

Nick for example in conventional language you could say "I'm typing at a computer". describe what this is like right here and now. are you, Paul, controlling typing right now, planning words and sentences and then transmitting them over the web?
Tuesday at 11:16am · Like

Paul I "know" I'm not 'Paul', nor "me", nor "I" -- I suppose where there is confusion, is I don't necessarily feel grounded in "this"
Tuesday at 11:18am · Like

Paul I think I'm looking for a particular feeling to clarify that
Tuesday at 11:18am · Like

Paul it's like, the question comes up--am I doing it right? haha
Tuesday at 11:19am · Like

Paul when I'm with my direct experience, there is "simply typing"
Tuesday at 11:20am · Like

Nick if you're looking for a blissful state or a special experience look elsewhere. go to a holy-roller church, they've got plenty of bliss to go around. so just describe whats happening. you say things like "I know I'm not me". this doesn't make sense logically. who or what is this person or thing that knows this?
Tuesday at 11:21am · Like · 2

Paul I'm not looking for that, give me a break
Tuesday at 11:21am · Unlike · 1

Nick ok good, i just saw your description of "simply typing".
Tuesday at 11:21am · Like

Nick so are you in control of the typing?
Tuesday at 11:22am · Like

Paul I know I'm not the label thats pointing to me
Tuesday at 11:22am · Like

Paul wait
Tuesday at 11:23am · Like

Paul there is apparently a body, named Paul, moved by life that's in control of the typing lol
Tuesday at 11:24am · Like

Nick ok cool. yes the body is real. the name Paul is attached to it like a label. you said that "the label is not pointing to me". this sentence raises 2 questions. WHAT is the label "I" indicating? and WHO are you if not "I" or "Paul"?
Tuesday at 11:26am · Like

Paul "I" is simply used as a way, a label to function in society, to indicate "ourselves." Who am I? Good question. What am I? Good question. Ultimately, I don't know, but I could say, I'm simply a body, manifesting , as life, named Paul
Tuesday at 11:29am · Like

Nick i think we both agree with you're description of the function of "I", as a label to operate in society, and its not identical with the limited body or personality called "Paul". the question is, who or what does it indicate in REALITY? Is there something behind it that can be found.
Tuesday at 11:33am · Like

Paul I suppose some people might say that "I" = "me"
Tuesday at 11:35am · Like

Nick in other words is there someone or something watching all this stuff happening. like when the "just typing" occurs, who is experiencing it?
Tuesday at 11:36am · Like

Paul ohhh
Tuesday at 11:36am · Like

Paul Do we really know what "it" is? We call it awareness or consciousness
Tuesday at 11:37am · Like

Paul Can we really "see" what's doing the "seeing"? lol
Tuesday at 11:38am · Like

Nick ok you're trying to wiggle around the issue by claiming that there's some unnamable or unknowable thing at your center, right? I call BS.
Tuesday at 11:40am · Like · 1

Nick the question is - is there something/someone, or not? Look and see for yourself.
Tuesday at 11:41am · Like

Paul <===not trying to wiggle , period lol
Tuesday at 11:42am · Unlike · 1

Nick if you say its indescribable, then you're saying YES there is something there experiencing all of this life. you've decided that its not "Paul" or "i", but all you've done is thrown out one label for another.
Tuesday at 11:42am · Like

Nick its like layers of an onion. unlike most people in the world, you've seen that reality is not what it seems, you've peeled off the superficial layer of I. but you need to peel off ALL the layers to the very core and see whats there for real.
Tuesday at 11:45am · Edited · Like

Paul There is something, but again, (my question is sincere) do we really "know" what it is. Anything I say, will be another label. I could say that "something" is "life", it's awareness, it's consciousness.
Tuesday at 11:45am · Like

Nick who the f is there, to "know" what it is?
Tuesday at 11:46am · Like

Nick and you're right, anything you say is another label. TOTALLY right on.
Tuesday at 11:47am · Like

Paul Oooo, "Nick's" getting a little testy haha
Tuesday at 11:47am · Unlike · 1

Paul I feel ya
Tuesday at 11:48am · Like

Nick so the question is not "who is it?" the question is "is there anybody there at all?"
Tuesday at 11:48am · Like

Paul right, totally
Tuesday at 11:48am · Like

Nick so, yes or no?
Tuesday at 11:49am · Like

Paul no, there is nobody
Tuesday at 11:49am · Like

Paul so, out of curiosity
Tuesday at 11:50am · Like

Paul when someone ask you, if they ask you--who are you, what are you, etc? do you simply say--there's no one there to know
Tuesday at 11:50am · Like

Nick not unless you want to end up in an asylum lol
Tuesday at 11:51am · Like

Paul ;P
Tuesday at 11:51am · Like

Nick the public persona of "Paul" will continue to exist and interact in the world like normal. This is a private, internal understanding. its like when you find out that Santa's not real. you still have fun, celebrate xmas each year, give gifts, and you even perpetuate the story of santa for the little kids cuz its so fun.
Tuesday at 11:53am · Like

Paul Totally get ya--it's like what Osho said--no mind for me, mind for everybody else
Tuesday at 11:54am · Like

Paul Fuck Santa ;)
Tuesday at 11:55am · Unlike · 1

Paul Thanks, Nick!
Tuesday at 11:55am · Like

Nick it seems like you've opened your eyes up a little bit and seen something cool. lets break for now. take some time to digest. use this understanding to LOOK in your everyday life. go for a walk in nature or out on the street. check out how life is happening on its own without the need for any controller or even an experiencer.
Tuesday at 11:56am · Like

Paul I agree, good idea
Tuesday at 11:56am · Like

Paul Thank you
Tuesday at 11:57am · Like

Nick check this thing out at length. really LOOK and take in the nuances. get back to me later today or tomorrow with some longer posts. really open up and rant. fire off any questions.
Tuesday at 11:57am · Like

Nick btw you are awesome
Tuesday at 11:57am · Like

Nick bye for now
Tuesday at 11:57am · Like

Paul Give Elena a big smooch for me, when ya see her, ok? lol Thanks, Nick, much appreciated, and ditto
Tuesday at 11:57am · Like · 1

Nick Paul - how's it going?
Wednesday at 8:46pm · Like

Paul Pretty good, thanks Nick. How are you doing? I think I might need some more time with this. ;)
Wednesday at 11:18pm · Like

Nick Just write down what you see right now when you LOOK. Let's keep at this, checking in at least once a day when we can.
Yesterday at 7:19am · Like

Nick So, forgetting about what you think is supposed to be happening or what you've read about before,
Yesterday at 7:20am · Like

Nick is there an I, a me, a mine, or a self - right here and now in your actual current experience?
Yesterday at 7:21am · Like

Paul
No, there isn't. But, I think this is where we're going to butt heads. You seem to be fixated on the "who." I get it-- there's simply experiencing. Maybe I'm fixated on wanting to know "what" it is. The thing is, no one really knows, and m...See More
21 hours ago · Like

Nick you know there's no who, but the problem is "wanting to know 'what' it is". Who (or what) is it that wants to know or is able to know? This whole premise implies a separate entity...
21 hours ago · Like · 3

Nick you want to know WHAT it is when there's "simply experiencing". You want there to be some mystery or force or reason behind things. All these things are what "you" want and you are never going to know them.
21 hours ago · Like · 2

Nick simply experiencing is just that, simply experiencing. Typing at the keyboard is nothing more than just typing at the keyboard. There's no-one and no-thing else to it.
21 hours ago · Like

Nick
anyway, let's get back on track and get looking at the gate. we agree there's no "paul" and there's just experiencing without an external controller. Yet there's something that you still want to know. Can you find or identify what or who it...See More
20 hours ago · Edited · Like · 2

Paul Ok, soaking this in
20 hours ago · Like

Nick soak it in and keep LOOKING, investigating. You're standing at the gate and just don't know it yet :)
20 hours ago · Like

Nick and remember, this is REALITY we're talking about, not ideas or concepts. Real life, experience right here and now. There's nothing else... ♥
20 hours ago · Like

Paul Do you think consciousness/awareness is "self aware."?
20 hours ago · Like

Paul Is it consciousness wanting to know itself?
20 hours ago · Like

Nick yes of course awareness is ever present and aware of everything, therefore including itself. this type of logic shows how subject-object duality breaks down. but this is all theory and not important right now.
20 hours ago · Like · 1

Nick your 2nd question is interesting. the question implies that awareness somehow DOESN'T know itself, but can BECOME aware. but you see this is impossible because if there were something separate to become aware of, well that thing couldn't exist since awareness is a characteristic of everything.
20 hours ago · Like

Paul gotcha, ( I think ) lol
19 hours ago · Like

Nick let's flip the script back from the cosmic to the reality right here and now. YOU don't exist. You're trying to figure something out, to make something happen or change. But in fact this reality I'm pointing out is already real. YOU never have existed, YOU can't know or believe anything. There's just experience. What about that?
19 hours ago · Like

Paul See, for the past few minutes, there's been only experiencing. ( it's almost as if this is a "state" change or this needs to be "practiced" or grounded
19 hours ago · Like

Paul regardless, it's all just experiencing - 'I"m" creating the distinction
19 hours ago · Like

Nick YES!
19 hours ago · Like

Paul it's like there's an attachment to the "I", and then detachment etc. lol
19 hours ago · Like

Nick the states come and go. when the belief in "I" is dropped, as it may be right now, the truth is being seen. the old feelings and thoughts of "i" or "me" will likely return, they're habitual. BUT - when they do, they can be dismissed. you KNOW they're bullshit so they have no power anymore.
19 hours ago · Like

Paul yes
19 hours ago · Like

Paul totally
19 hours ago · Like

Paul you're good, nick--you're good :)
19 hours ago · Like

Nick SOOO... experience is just flowing. IS there a separate entity "experience-ing"? Whether you call it "I", me, self, "IT", that, whatever....
19 hours ago · Like · 1

Paul No, but tears are flowing ;)
19 hours ago · Like

Nick what does it feel like to see this?
19 hours ago · Like

Paul Ahhhhhh
19 hours ago · Like

Nick ♥ enjoy it. please elaborate when able.
19 hours ago · Like

Paul like a huge weight lifted---release, quiet, calm, peaceful--but there's excitement
19 hours ago · Like · 1

Nick use your opened eyes. what is this thing we call "I"? what makes it happen? was it ever real?
19 hours ago · Like

Paul and the beautiful thing is
19 hours ago · Like

Paul the tears are simply falling, but it's not "painful", it's a "beautiful" things, because 'it's simply happening
19 hours ago · Like

Paul Society fucked us up with the "I"--a construct that was taught to us, so we could recognize "ourselves"---no, it was never real, but "I" believed it, because "I' didnt know any better
19 hours ago · Unlike · 2

Nick Paul, it's such an honor to share this understanding with "you". Believe me you were so close to this already when we started talking. what was it that tipped you over the edge?
19 hours ago · Like · 1

Paul Nick the states come and go. when the belief in "I" is dropped, as it may be right now, the truth is being seen. the old feelings and thoughts of "i" or "me" will likely return, they're habitual. BUT - when they do, they can be dismissed. you KNOW they're bullshit so they have no power anymore. THIS IS WHAT TIPPED ME OVER!!!
19 hours ago · Unlike · 3

Paul That clarity---thank you so much
19 hours ago · Like

Paul You were/are a beautiful guide, thank you
19 hours ago · Like

Nick pretend I'm a friend who's never heard about this before, but I've expressed interest -- how would you explain this to me?
19 hours ago · Edited · Like

Paul WHat would your initial question be?
19 hours ago · Like

Paul I would explain that it can't necessarily be explained, but they would need to get in touch with it via their own experience--hence the experiential questions
19 hours ago · Like · 1

Nick so awesome, Paul. :)
19 hours ago · Like · 1

Nick you just chill and enjoy whatever comes up. I'm going to check back in with you later tonight, if you feel like ranting and raving on this thread, please do so. Bye for now.
19 hours ago · Like · 1

Paul take care, Nick
19 hours ago · Unlike · 2

Nick Hey Paul. That was really fun earlier today, I'm so glad "seeing" happened. I suspect that we are done here. Ive asked for some other guides to look at this thread, as is customary. Holla back if you want, or just relax and I'll get back to you tomorrow.
11 hours ago · Like

Paul :)
11 hours ago · Like

Paul Again, I wanted to thank you for your help
11 hours ago · Like

Nick You did all the work. We are done here.
about an hour ago · Like

Nick But... you will see this is only the beginning. You've received a bitch slap to the face, and woken up abruptly. You were ready, but its still a shock to the system. The next weeks and months will be very interesting and they can be turbulent for some. But, your understanding will only deepen over time, there is no way that you can "go back to normal" - in fact, now you know that you never were "normal" :)
about an hour ago · Like

Nick I've added you to the private FB group called "Unleashed". This is a support group or "aftercare" group, only for the liberated. Please jump in there with comments, post your own threads - seriously hold nothing back. Its for us ALL to vent and ask questions and help each other out. One day you may feel the urge to guide others, just let us know. As they used to say in the old-school days - "welcome to the war motherfucker!"
about an hour ago · Like

Paul LOL thanks so much.
about an hour ago · Like


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