Clarity Sought

[OsitoCafe]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
That there is no separate ‘me’ making decisions and directing life. That life is happening in and of itself and there is one happening.

What are you looking for at LU?
Not to have an intellectual understanding but an experiential change. To be able to let go of the past story of ‘me’ and live with more freedom. To live spontaneously if that is possible. I am very analytical!

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
To have help to see if I have understood this already because some writers point to a very dramatic change of perception which scares me but reading Gateless Gatecrashers, it seemed more subtle and accessible.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I thought a lot about the nature of existence since childhood. Lots of reading, meditation, yoga. Self improvement sometimes. Then 5 years of silent Buddhist retreats but too heady. Then reading about non duality. Then giving up completely. This summer I read Angelo Dilullo’s book and something very real came off the pages - glimpses. I heard about the fetters, saw a reference to this site.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 9

[Maylson]

Hi, Osito (How can I call you?)

It’s good that you already sense that life is happening by itself and that there’s no separate ‘me’ directing it. You don’t need an intellectual breakthrough or a “dramatic change”, what is being pointed to here is much simpler and already present.

But first, something important:

Don’t wait for an explosion.
Don’t wait for a new, special “state.”
Don’t wait for the mind to understand or approve.

This subtle search for a “shift of perception” is the disguise of the seeker.
The paradox is this:
You want to stop seeking, but you’re still seeking to stop seeking.

This exploration won’t add more ideas. It’s more like seeing what’s actually here, right now, without adding the story of “me” who sees it. Nothing needs to be dropped or improved, just looked at clearly.

You said you are very analytical, that’s perfectly fine. We can use that clarity to look directly, but not to think our way through it. It’s more about observing than solving.

Would you like to start by looking at what exactly this “I” refers to when you say “I make decisions” or “I live life”? What is this “I” in your direct experience, right now, not as a thought or idea, but as something you can actually find?

[OsitoCafe]

Hi May,

Thanks for your reply. Osito is fine.

The I in my direct experience is just a feeling. I have been taught to associate it with a body and answer to a name but honestly if I just look, all I seems to be is a feeling of presence. In terms of I make decisions - they happen and there are thoughts that I made them but in my actual life, I have always felt that they were made and then I became aware that they were made.

Best wishes.
Osito.

[Maylson]

Hi Osito,

Thanks for your clarity.

“All I seems to be is a feeling of presence.”

Let’s look directly.

Is that feeling doing anything?

Is it choosing thoughts?
Is it guiding decisions?
Can it move a hand or start a sentence?

Or is it simply… present, and then a thought comes in and says “that’s me”?

That’s the glue, isn’t it?
A sensation + a label = “I”.
But without the label, is there any entity in control?

“Decisions happen, and then I become aware they were made.”

Exactly. That’s the crack in the illusion.
Now break it wide open:

Try this right now:

Think of a number between 1 and 20.

Watch closely...

Can you see where the number comes from?

Do you decide it?

Or does it just… arrive?

If decisions just happen, and thoughts come after…
Who is the “I” that owns any of it?

Hold here. Let this question land, not linger...

What is left, right now, without the thought “I”?
Is anything missing?

Report from that. Not what you think... what you see.

Looking forward to hearing what’s seen now.

Warmly,

[OsitoCafe]

Hi May,

I loved reading that reply!

Is that feeling doing anything?

Is it choosing thoughts?
Is it guiding decisions?
Can it move a hand or start a sentence?

Or is it simply… present, and then a thought comes in and says “that’s me”?

That’s the glue, isn’t it?
A sensation + a label = “I”.
But without the label, is there any entity in control?

No, a feeling can't do anything. That really made me laugh.
It is not choosing thoughts, guiding decisions and can't move a hand or start a sentence - those things are just happening. I see that I is a label on a feeling. That feeling cannot act.

No, there is not a controlling entity!

I picked a number and it just came from nowhere - if decisions happen and thoughts come after then worrying about future decisions and if they will be 'right' is hilarious because decisions will just happen and they cannot be 'right' or 'wrong' just what happens. I think I know this because 5 years ago I moved to another country later in life because I fell in love and people kept saying how 'brave' it was but I knew intuitively that I could not have done otherwise. It happened the only way it could.

The I with ownership is an illusion - an idea. Without the I there is just what is happening or happening, aliveness. No, nothing is missing. Without thought nothing is missing, it is thoughts that make it seem that something is missing. Just sitting right now without thinking - nothing is missing at all.

Best wishes.

Osito

[Maylson]

Hi Osito,

Yes! something undeniably clear is showing itself here.

“The I with ownership is an illusion – an idea.”
“Without thought, nothing is missing.”

Let’s keep digging now, not up into ideas, but down into the raw mechanics of how this all operated.

Take a moment and really feel:

How did the illusion of “I” appear real, all this time?

Not as a belief, but in experience.
Where did it seem to live in the body?
How did it show up in language, emotion, reactivity?

Can you describe how that structure held itself together?

What happens now when there’s discomfort, tension, or resistance?

Does a sense of “someone” return to experience it?
Can that still happen? If so, what’s different about it now?

“Decisions just happen, and thoughts come after.”

Perfect. Let’s go deeper.

Look closely:
Can you find the moment a thought arises?

Can you detect the cause of it?

Does anything choose the next thought, sensation, or action?

Sit with this in real time. Not the memory of seeing it — but the seeing now.

Right now, without reaching for thought , without labeling or naming,
What is here?

Let it be totally unfiltered. No conclusions. No narration.
Just a direct description of what is present, now, without a self.

Let’s stay at this depth.
There’s no finish line here... just this ever-deepening immediacy.

[OsitoCafe]

Hi May,

How did the illusion of “I” appear real, all this time?

In the body - a feeling in my head behind my eyes - feels like a centre/focal point of thinking. Quite a stressful contraction actually like pressure.
In language with the use of the words 'I' and 'me'. Emotion - pride or shame when there was self referencing either from others or in the mind depending on whether it was good or bad. Reactivity - feeling in the stomach trying to protect the idea.

The structure held itself together via belief. It's tense to keep it all together.

What happens now when there’s discomfort, tension, or resistance?

There is still a sense of self for me - now there is a remembering though to allow the discomfort. I don't know if this is correct but I have heard it in a few places and if I do this 'allowing/letting go' discomfort passes through.

Can you find the moment a thought arises?

Can you detect the cause of it?

Does anything choose the next thought, sensation, or action?

Absolutely not. I sat quietly for a few minutes and there was a swirl of images reflecting noises I heard of my cleaning lady banging buckets around. I did not choose those images or cause them. I became aware of pressure in my fingers and I was pressing them into my hand. I did not decide to do that. I became aware that it was happening.

What is here is simply life but I don't mean to label or describe because I can't - space, isness, being? I feel it. I felt this since I was a child in glimpses but I cannot describe it. It's not nothing but it also is :)

Best wishes.
Osito

[Maylson]

Hi Osito,

“A feeling in my head behind my eyes… a stressful contraction…”
“Pride or shame depending on whether it was good or bad…”
“The structure held itself together via belief. It's tense to keep it all together.”

That’s exactly it, you saw the whole machine.
Not in theory, but as something that was lived.
And now, the tension starts to ease, because it’s not being reinforced anymore.

What you said here struck deeply:

“There is still a sense of self for me – now there is a remembering though to allow the discomfort.”

That’s not a mistake. That’s not “doing it wrong.”
That remembering to allow, that’s the body learning to move without the old armor.
It’s like the head saw through it… and now the nervous system is learning it can trust.

So yes, things will still arise... tension, contraction, old reactions... but they’ll be seen for what they are. And in that seeing, they already begin dissolving.

“What is here is simply life… not nothing, but also is :)”

Yes!!!!
No label is needed anymore.
No belief needs to be held in place.
No center has to be protected!

Life is moving, and you’re not behind it.

There’s nowhere to get to now.
Just keep noticing what unfolds, especially when discomfort shows up. That’s often where the deepest freedom hides.

If you'd like, we can explore those moments more, when the body tightens or the mind tries to protect again.
They’re invitations, not problems.

[OsitoCafe]

Thank you May!

No label is needed anymore.
No belief needs to be held in place.
No center has to be protected!

When I read this I felt my whole body sink into relaxation, like I arrived here finally.

Just keep noticing what unfolds, especially when discomfort shows up. That’s often where the deepest freedom hides.

If you'd like, we can explore those moments more, when the body tightens or the mind tries to protect again.
They’re invitations, not problems.

That would be helpful. I love that they are 'invitations not problems'. That is a very freeing reframe. Weirdly in the last few days I have had a lot of reactivity and it is though there is a retreat into being mind identified like whiplash and it is a painful place to be - full of fear and future projection.

I also have a question that may not be relevant or just bonkers so please ignore if not appropriate.

Fear comes if the news is seen - I know it is stories, ideas, thoughts on thoughts but are those things happening outside of my present experience? Or is 'this' all there is?

Thanks May.
Best wishes.
Osito

[Maylson]

Hi Osito,

This question you asked is beautiful, and it goes right to the root:

“Are those things happening outside of my present experience? Or is ‘this’ all there is?”

Let’s not rush past it, let’s really sit with it.

You already said:

“Fear comes if the news is seen.”

So just for a moment, go there again... slowly, gently.

When the news is on and fear arises:

What is actually being seen or heard?

Is it war, collapse, violence… or is it colour, sound, movement, right here?

What part of it is happening outside experience?

Notice how thought immediately begins to build a world, to project a future, to imagine a danger that isn’t here, and the body responds as if it's real.

So here’s the question to live with, not answer:

Can you find anything - anything at all - that exists outside of experience without using thought?

Not “what’s true”, just, what can be found?

Let the body answer.

Here’s something you can try next time fear shows up:

Exercise:

Watch the body as the fear appears.

Instead of going into the story (“what might happen”), go into the sensation.

Ask:

What exactly is being threatened right now?

Is there a world pressing in… or just pressure in the chest, stomach, throat?

Is it happening in experience, or outside of it?

Fear isn’t wrong. It’s just the body reacting to thoughts treated as reality.
But without those thoughts, is there anything wrong?

Is there anything missing?
Tell me what you see! no rush...

[OsitoCafe]

Hi May,

Thank you for this - I am busting with excitement now :)

What is actually being seen or heard?

Is it war, collapse, violence… or is it colour, sound, movement, right here?

What part of it is happening outside experience?

What is actually being seen is images and colours. What is heard is voices which are sounds. This is all right here and right now. None of this is happening outside of experience. There are also - tightness sensation in stomach, swallowing sensation in throat, clenching feeling in jaw.

Can you find anything - anything at all - that exists outside of experience without using thought?

Not “what’s true”, just, what can be found?

Let the body answer.

No! Nothing can be found outside of experience without 'thought'.
The body answered with stillness :)

I have taken a photo of the exercise so I can look at it when fear next arises and will report back with what is found.

I wanted to share that my experience of life was different today after reading your last message. There was a feeling of being present that is not usually there and a lightness, a loosening. I went to meet a friend at a cafe and when people were seen there was no judgement but a kind of wonder and feeling of connection. Actually I felt an enormous amount of love. I felt able to be space for my friend to share her stuff and I felt so much love for her and my husband when I saw him later and it got expressed which is amazing. I know there can be phases that feel like a honeymoon and they pass but there was an opening today that was really special - not just that it is ok but that it is miraculous. So I wanted to say thank you.

And I would like to tattoo this to my head -

Notice how thought immediately begins to build a world, to project a future, to imagine a danger that isn’t here, and the body responds as if it's real.

I will do the exercise and report back :)

Best wishes.
Osito

[Maylson]

Hi Osito,

“None of this is happening outside experience.”
“The body answered with stillness.”
“There was a feeling of presence… a loosening… wonder… love…”

Yes!!!!

This isn’t a “state.”
It’s not a peak or a high.
It’s simply what happens when nothing is added, and the center doesn’t need to hold.

What you saw, what moved through you today, doesn’t belong to time. It’s not a phase. It’s not a reward.
It’s what remains when the imagined world isn’t believed.

And yes, the body may still react, fear may still arise, thought may still build futures…
But now something else is here:
You see it.
And that seeing doesn’t come and go.

So let the waves rise, fear, thought, contraction... they’re not evidence that anything is lost, but just more weather within what’s already free.

That quote you want to tattoo on your head? ahaha :)
You don’t need to. You’re living it.

I’m looking forward to hearing what shows up as you keep doing the exercise, just to keep seeing what’s here without filters.

This is only the beginning, and already, nothing is missing.

[OsitoCafe]

Thank you May. Here are two examples of working with the exercise:

Last night I was reading and suddenly felt fear with a thought about what 'Osito' needs to do tomorrow.

I went to the body and I felt tension in stomach and pressure in mouth - tongue was pushing on top of mouth.

I asked what is being threatened? Couldn't find anything - an idea of a person with things to do.

Physical sensations were being felt in experience. As you say body was reacting to thought as if it were reality. In reality body was sitting reading - no problem. Nothing wrong, nothing missing.

This morning a memory arose of a past traumatic incident. Not been thought of for many years but it just arose.

I went to the body and there was pressure in the temples and tightening in the chest. What was being threatened? An idea of a person who was there then and here now. A thought only. What was the mind trying to protect? A thought saying it shouldn't have happened. That is a belief. It is true? No. Without thought nothing missing and nothing wrong. Let it go.

Then a thought that there is no solution, no pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. Sadness - butterflies in the stomach plus the label 'sadness'. Then the thought that there have always been sensations labelled as pleasant AND sensations labelled as unpleasant so no change there. A relaxation occurred. Mind labelled it acceptance.

the center doesn’t need to hold

This hit home and out in daily life surrounded by others the 'center' is unraveling and not being so easily found. Still some contraction but not so intense as usual.

more weather within what’s already free.

This feels so real. Both existing: weather and freedom. Moving from a world of either/or to everything included. Nothing wrong and nothing missing.

Best wishes.
Osito.

[Maylson]

Hi Osito,

This landed so deeply! thank you for sharing it all so honestly.

Each of those examples shows something remarkable.The body is learning to trust this openness, and you’re letting it happen.

“Couldn’t find anything. Just a thought of a person with things to do.”

Yes.
And the body still contracts, pressure appears… but now it’s not evidence of danger. It’s just old reflex, seen in the light of what’s real. And in that seeing, something softens.

“A memory arose… chest tightened… the thought: ‘It shouldn’t have happened.’ Is it true? No.”

That moment right there, that’s where the old self would’ve clenched, gone into story, shame, avoidance.
But you met it. Felt it. Let it go!
You didn’t fix the memory, you just saw there’s no self to carry it.
That’s freedom, my friend! :)

“Then a thought that there is no solution…”

This one is important!
When that thought arises, “there’s no point, no pot of gold”, notice how the mind is still quietly looking for something to grasp.
And still- even that is seen now.
Even disillusionment is welcomed.
as you said so clearly:

“Both existing: weather and freedom.”

This is integration. Not pushing anything away. Not needing anything to resolve. Everything included. Nothing wrong. Nothing missing.

You don’t need to hold anything together anymore.

You don’t need to become anything.

And this, this everything, just as it is, is already whole.

Keep letting it unravel.

And if contractions return (they will), or emotion pulls hard (it might), you know where to look now, not to escape, but to feel it as weather in the open sky.

I’m here.

With love;

[OsitoCafe]

Thanks May,

That feels really clear. I am noticing some beliefs are 'sticky' and that is interesting.

Yesterday was remembrance Sunday remembering the two world wars. My father and my grandfather were military and we were raised with very strong values - service, duty, patriotism. Yesterday I felt very strong emotion thinking of my grandfather who was a prisoner of war and anger as there is a lot of opposition to these services now. I realised these values feel like identity and I felt strong attachment to these values.

What is most clear is not to push away experience but to accept and allow - by doing this and focusing on sensation the emotions move through. I will keep noticing that nothing is wrong and nothing is missing. In some ways as the process unfolds, reactivity increases(it seems) but it allows me to keep practising - to keep looking directly.

Best wishes.
Osito