Can't find the I

[graceabounds]

It's scared to be left alone and stop existing, never being able to feel love anymore.

Feel it fully. Entirely. Does it not exist?
What would feeling love look like right now?

Every loved one dropping away no one to hold on to, nobody that understands.

What would it like understanding of?
Can a sensation of understanding be located elsewhere in the body? If so where?

The feeling in the stomach is also afraid to even talk about it. It's out of character, and it don't know how to explain.

How long has it been there?
What is it afraid of?

The anger is just wanting to give up, it's pointless, you can't do it.

Who is it angry at? Where is the one who can’t do it? Where would this energy in the chest flow into if it were free?

If there is movement follow the movement. Be fully with whatever is present now in the body.

[AntonD]

Feel it fully. Entirely. Does it not exist?

- The sensation exist but not the labels, the labels refers to what would happen to Anton if it is no separate self, what is then existing? who can then feel love?

What would feeling love look like right now?

-A feeling of love right now would look like being held, expansive and freeing.

What would it like understanding of?

- Only to understand, to not be confused, to not be afraid, to not feel separated.

Can a sensation of understanding be located elsewhere

in the body? If so where?
- When that expansive feeling of love is there, understanding is here, don't really no where.

How long has it been there?

-Probably most of my life, it's going in one direction of seperation, fear and confusion to the other of unity, love and understanding.

What is it afraid of?

-It's afraid of asking for help, being vulnerable, showing people who I really am.
That's also what seems to open the portals to that other way of being, expansive and freeing.

Who is it angry at?

-When looking there's only sensation , no entity.

Where is the one who can’t do it?

-No one there, but sensation and label.

Where would this energy in the chest flow into if it were free?

- This would be only a guess but maybe head and into life itself.

-Anton

[graceabounds]

The sensation exist but not the labels, the labels refers to what would happen to Anton if it is no separate self, what is then existing? who can then feel love?

There’s no one who feels love.
Only love-ing happening.
Go to the raw experience. The sensations. They don’t disappear with the disappearance of a separate self that never existed.

Only to understand, to not be confused, to not be afraid, to not feel separated.

Earlier you “ Noticed that everything that's happening is in the same space”…
Could it be that this piece of experience has never been separate? That the thought of separation was part of the illusion of a separate self?

-It's afraid of asking for help, being vulnerable, showing people who I really am.
That's also what seems to open the portals to that other way of being, expansive and freeing.

Yes.

The contraction is the protection. The hiding. And it is the very thing that walls off the expansive and freeing way of being. So look fresh: in this moment, what does it take to not protect?

Let the chest soften. Let it quiver. Let the fear of being seen rise. Don’t resist it. Don’t tell a story about it. Feel it raw. Like being stripped bare.

Then inquire:
What exactly is at risk?

Be ruthless. Not the thought of risk—the actual felt danger in this moment.
Is it physical? Is something happening?
Or is it simply the ancient reflex of a self-image collapsing?

Right now, let it collapse. Let that whole shape of “who I really am” dissolve into sensation.


And also…if there is no separate self here then…
are there any ‘others’?

Where would this energy in the chest flow into if it were free?

- This would be only a guess but maybe head and into life itself.

Don’t guess. Let it move now. Let it flood wherever it wants. No labels. No stories. Just the raw, undiluted movement of sensation.
Where does it go?

[AntonD]

The sensations. They don’t disappear with the disappearance of a separate self that never existed.

- if no labels are put on it, it's only raw sensations, yes they are then still present.

Could it be that this piece of experience has never been separate?

- Yes the sensation was never separated from experience.

That the thought of separation was part of the illusion of a separate self?

-Yes that thought told a story that it belongs to someone that felt he was separated from experience, and that really created a illusion that made it reality.

So look fresh: in this moment, what does it take to not protect?

- To relax and be honest, really it takes nothing, the push and pull have created this problem in the first place. Just to be.

Let the chest soften. Let it quiver. Let the fear of being seen rise. Don’t resist it. Don’t tell a story about it. Feel it raw. Like being stripped bare.

Then inquire:
What exactly is at risk?

-Nothing is behind sensations, nothing is behind thoughts, nothing is behind movements, nothing is behind everything.
So what's at risk is nothing.

Be ruthless. Not the thought of risk—the actual felt danger in this moment.
Is it physical?

-No there's only a sensation present.

Is something happening?

-A sensation is not a thing, so no.

Or is it simply the ancient reflex of a self-image collapsing?

- Yes, and that image is a thought.

And also…if there is no separate self here then…
are there any ‘others’?

- Everyone is in the same condition, driving without a driver, so yes there is no other.

Don’t guess. Let it move now. Let it flood wherever it wants. No labels. No stories. Just the raw, undiluted movement of sensation.
Where does it go?

-Whatever I write right now would be a story about a sensation, the only right thing to say about what's seen when looking is that it goes nowhere.

-Anton

[graceabounds]

Hello Anton,

No-one woke up. No-one crossed a gate. Nothing happened.
And yet everything false is falling away.

Whatever I write right now would be a story about a sensation, the only right thing to say about what's seen when looking is that it goes nowhere.

You’re standing in the nakedness that the seeker always ran from. No fanfare. No fireworks. Just this. Undeniable, inescapable, and as ordinary as breathing.

Circling back here:

Getting help, feeling stuck at the moment, I don't really know what to do.
I feel I have glimpses of the truth where seeing is seeing,thoughts is thought and so on. But then there is doubts, and getting stuck in I thought and the character Anton is built again.

Is there someone here now who is stuck?
Are there any current doubts?
From here would it be possible for the character, the separate self, to be resurrected, built again?

-Becca

[AntonD]

Hello Becca,

No-one woke up. No-one crossed a gate. Nothing happened.
And yet everything false is falling away.

- Yes and now there's no escaping those sensations, only raw sensation. Reckon over time it will be easier.

Is there someone here now who is stuck?

- Nobody is really getting stuck, but some thoughts still clouds, like breathing something happening by itself, when it's seen for what it is, its released and then it's empty nature is looked upon.

Are there any current doubts?

-Thoughts that doubts is for sure here, but no one is found who owns, it just comes up then drops, it sometimes triggers sensations, but that to is dropped when seen.

From here would it be possible for the character, the separate self, to be resurrected, built again?

- No there is no-one that can be resurrected, but thoughts can still clouds same with sensation, looks like the real work is now, to just be and relax.

- Much love and thanks Anton

[graceabounds]

Hello Anton,

Yes, just to be. Now it’s just raw life… clear, direct, unfiltered. Live it. :)

There was nothing else ever happening but this, only an illusion of a separate self, the collapse of which is also an appearance.

Here is a series of questions to uncover any remaining gaps in clear seeing. Sit with each and see what comes to answer from this space, here now.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before we started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look? Was there a moment of shift with a distinct before and after?

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. Consider and describe each if these separately.

6) What makes things happen? How does it work?

7) What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

8) Anything to add?

In gratitude and abundant love,
Becca

[AntonD]

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

- There’s is no little Anton entity found when looking in any appearance in presence such as thoughts, sensation, movement etc.
Thoughts can still cling, and presence find itself from time to time being the thought and being one with the talking, the voice of the thought, when that is seen it can be dropped, and the empty nature is seen, it's seen that there never was one stuck. But yes that for sure happens.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

- It looks like it starts at very young age, trying to figure out our place in the world.
Parent, the city, culture and school putting labels on us and the world.
I'm here you are there, that's is me and that's is you.
That voice started make itself herd, from our parents telling me you are Anton, you are such a kind boy.
That started to eco in presence, the voice started to be identified with the 'me' in here.
Thoughts talked to themself, thought started saying stuff about sensations, sensations now became emotions and that really became the hunt for pleasant experiences, and running from unpleasant experiences.
Years later the character Anton was fully made, he now has what he likes and dislike, even before alot of situations he gets a sensation followed a thought telling ' I always get nervous of this' that triggers a bodily reaction of in same cases shaking, voice trembling.
Now all of life has become automatic responses, Anton now stay in his safe cocoon where nothing will hurt, his world is seen through past experiences and everything is pretty much a well known solution.
Creativity is lost, the boy that used to paint se now only one solution, one way, one thought, one sensation, emptiness of all things where all possibilities are there, has now gone.

One thought triggers another, sensation to thought, thought to sensations, in some cases it gets to much so the escape becomes movement.
Now there is a story and a belief built that 'I'm a restless person ' but in reality it's only another escape for the previous sensation/thought.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before we started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

-To be honest, I don't know if there is a difference, what is seen is that movement is one, talking is just happening, when driving a car everything just happens as it happens, walking now is like floating. But as I said earlier about thought, thought can cloud, when presence is clouded, it's like presence is zoning out, and in that conditions nothing is known, but when that is recognized, the thoughts and it's empty nature can be seen, and it's seen that presence was never away.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look? Was there a moment of shift with a distinct before and after?

-Don't really know, had a few moment through out the whole conversation, when you talk about me not needing certainty, that all of that was only thoughts( and all of those thoughts are as present now).
Really don't know what has happened, this understanding was present before, something has cleared up, but don't really know or nothing has, only trying right now to not try, just be and see the empty nature of all.

5) Describe decision

- Really everything only happens, thoughts talk about subjects, this and that, but when it comes to it the decision just happens, nobody there to make it.
The thoughts just says for example 'go right', nobody knew that beforehand.

Intention

- Intention is like everything else in experience, something that just happen intention intending on doing that and then it's just happens, thoughts seems to talk about what happen after intention made it happen and trying to take ownership, some thoughts definitely influence future but most don't.
There can even be a sensation and a thought saying 'you looked right, trying fool with both feeling and thoughts.

Free will

- Don’t know if there is a free will to be honest.

Choice and control

- There is no choice and no control, choices just happen, and the controller was only sticky thought, what happen happens anyway, the controller was never there.

6) What makes things happen? How does it work?

Nothing makes things happen, everything just happens, nobody is making anything happen.
Who knoooows how it works, a self regenerating fractal of some sort, searching for the best solution maybe :)

7) What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

Don't know if I'm responsible for anything, Who is responsible, nobody really doing anything. All that is needed to do is be with what is and relax, then the best of oneself will come. All those thoughts of greed, jealousy and power will in time subside, and if resposibilty wants to be responsible for something it's that.

Don't know if one have a choice in a situation to even chose between for example relax and stay with the sensation or to go to thoughts and now have emotion, to after that bodily reaction of maybe hitting someone, that just looks like it happens by itself based on so many conditions in life.

8) Anything to add?

- Hopefully you see what's here when reading this, don't know what has happened if something has happened, if you see me lacking somewhere please tell me.

Thanks Becca, much love and gratitude!

-Anton

[graceabounds]

Something has definitely happened Anton. What is and has always been true is rising to the surface.
:)

Let’s explore a couple of areas in more depth…

Thoughts can still cling, and presence find itself from time to time being the thought

That’s a thought claiming ownership of presence, not presence finding itself in thought. See the difference?

Look right now. When the thought claims, “I’m a restless person,” where is the I in that sentence? Can it be located outside the thought itself?

Creativity is lost, the boy that used to paint se now only one solution, one way, one thought, one sensation, emptiness of all things where all possibilities are there, has now gone

So with seeing through the illusion, if there is no longer one way, or one solution, have all possibilities returned… just with no one to claim them?

Look around you. Move your hand. Creation is happening now.

Every blink is new.

some thoughts definitely influence future but most don't

Right now—where is “future”?
Not the thought about the future.
Not the feeling about what might happen.
Where is the actual future?

Does future exist at all outside of thought?
If not, then what is being influenced?

Can a thought DO anything?
Take for example the thought “I should do this tomorrow.”
Does anything actually happen right now, aside from that thought?
Can that thought guarantee anything?
Even if a future act does happen, did “you” do it?

Follow this circle of thoughts down the drain…
and then go back through all those questions and replace the word ‘future’ with the word ‘past’.

What emerges?

Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

- There’s is no little Anton entity found when looking in any appearance in presence such as thoughts, sensation, movement etc

None found… so…
Was there ever one??


Much love,
Becca

[AntonD]

Hello Becca,

That’s a thought claiming ownership of presence, not presence finding itself in thought. See the difference?

- Yes I see the difference.

Look right now. When the thought claims, “I’m a restless person,” where is the I in that sentence? Can it be located outside the thought itself?

- The I can't be located, it's only a thought, only thing found is presence with it's content.

Right now—where is “future”?

- The future is a thought in the now, the past only only a thought in the present to.

Not the thought about the future.

Not the feeling about what might happen.

Where is the actual future?

-It never was. Same with past, it lives in memories, and that's only thoughts.

Does future exist at all outside of thought?
If not, then what is being influenced?

-It looks like it can't influence the future, and maybe it can't influence the now either, because like you said, who did it, when it's actually done is it the thought or just presence, it's definitely just done.

Can a thought DO anything?
Take for example the thought “I should do this tomorrow.”
Does anything actually happen right now, aside from that thought?

- Definitely just that thought, it can't do anything.

Can that thought guarantee anything?

-No it can't.

Even if a future act does happen, did “you” do it?

- like the tree treeing, it's nobodys doing, the act was done without.

None found… so…
Was there ever one??

- No there never was one.

Thanks you for putting up with me !
-Anton

[graceabounds]

Lovely.

The I can't be located, it's only a thought, only thing found is presence with it's content.

At some point in direct recognition of what is, this whole conversation just becomes a word salad, it points to the thing but is not the thing itself.

The word presence can be misleading in this way. It can be hijacked by thought as “something I can be in,” “something I can cultivate,” or “something I possess.”

So as long as what is written above is pointing to just THIS, WHAT IS, then we are clear. If there is a ‘you’ in any way being it, recognizing it or contained in it, well… then we can discuss further. :)


At this point I am going to share your last couple of posts with some fellow guides at LU, see if anyone has questions for further exploration.


In the meantime, here are a couple more from me:

What has changed?
Describe, in your daily life, what actually feels different since seeing there was no self.

Is any subtle seeking still present?
Is there any residual desire for confirmation, integration, validation, or deepening? If so, identify where seeking still sneaks in.

Much love,
Becca

[AntonD]

Hello Becca,

At some point in direct recognition of what is, this whole conversation just becomes a word salad, it points to the thing but is not the thing itself.

- Totally agree haha :D

The word presence can be misleading in this way. It can be hijacked by thought as “something I can be in,” “something I can cultivate,” or “something I possess.”

- Yes I agree with that, it looks like everything that is, sounds, thoughts, sensation and so on is a play upon nothing, so when I say presence, I really mean everything that is.
And like I said above everything is really happening on nothing and that's also why there is no self entity, no one that can hold on.

So as long as what is written above is pointing to just THIS, WHAT IS, then we are clear. If there is a ‘you’ in any way being it, recognizing it or contained in it, well… then we can discuss further. :)

- As I said in earlier post's, there is still thoughts that claim ownership over presence, and that clouds the seeing that sees all content like sound, sight and so on, but when that is recognized it returns to what is, and all is known again instantly, don't really know what this mean, if it's just a pattern repeating itself automatically or if it's a subtle me recognizing thoughts.

At this point I am going to share your last couple of posts with some fellow guides at LU, see if anyone has questions for further exploration.

- Would love that, thank you !

In the meantime, here are a couple more from me:

What has changed?

Yesterday when you wrote 'That’s a thought claiming ownership of presence, not presence finding itself in thought. See the difference?' That kinda struck me somewhere and today there was a few moments of relief, where something was cleared up, hard to know what to say, how to really know, there really can't be no self that is, but who knows, is it the 'me' or the knowing... Thoughts say that it's done, thoughts say it's something left, after that is recognized and returned to what is, trusting that presence will solve it.
There is a seeing that the recognition breaks the thought midsentence, and then it's returned to what is, where everything happens.
There is less and less seeking, more and more giving up.

Describe, in your daily life, what actually feels different since seeing there was no self.

- There is a clear seeing that everything really is happening right now, movement, talking, thinking, sensations. Through the whole day there is moments where everything is released, easy and clear, in those moment it's obvious how it is, but it goes up and down.

Is any subtle seeking still present?

- Don't know if this is seeking, me not being 100 procent sure, and it's hard to even talk about this because if I say 'me' not being 100 procent sure, means that a thought is owning what is, and talking nonsense.
For this to happen shouldn't I just give everything up? Even this trying ?

Is there any residual desire for confirmation, integration, validation, or deepening? If so, identify where seeking still sneaks in.

- Yes for sure there is, there is definitely a desire for some sort of confirmation, validation that the separate self is seen through. Things have changed for sure, but it's hard about certainty. Don’t want to leave this conversation with something left unfinished and a weird belief that there is no separate self, but I don't know how to know, is this clear seeing or only fooled by thoughts.


Again much love and thanks!


-Anton

[graceabounds]

Hello Anton,

Things have changed for sure, but it's hard about certainty. Don’t want to leave this conversation with something left unfinished and a weird belief that there is no separate self, but I don't know how to know, is this clear seeing or only fooled by thoughts.

The only way to be certain is to look freshly now. And now. And now. As you are spending more and more time here now it will become organic, as things arise.

See, this process is already happening when you write “when that is recognized it returns to what is, and all is known again instantly”. The illusion being caught midsentence is great.

So, right now, look freshly: is there anyone behind “I don’t know how to know”? Or is that another thought without an owner?

As for validation or confirmation, would it add anything to what is already here? Or would it perhaps be something to latch back onto as something that someone accomplished?

Also, I’m not going anywhere. :)

Much love,
Becca

[AntonD]

Hello Becca,

Really Becca you are the best, you counter my bullshit right away.
You made it clear, thank you for that :)

The only way to be certain is to look freshly now. And now. And now. As you are spending more and more time here now it will become organic, as things arise.

- Yes that seems like the best way now, to just stay with it. To stop using thoughts to come up with that which is thoughtsless, to trust in that which just is.

So, right now, look freshly: is there anyone behind “I don’t know how to know”? Or is that another thought without an owner?

- Like always it comes from nowhere and go back to nowhere, nobody there owning it.

As for validation or confirmation, would it add anything to what is already here? Or would it perhaps be something to latch back onto as something that someone accomplished?

- It would not add anything, and yes there could for sure be a latching on from that point.

Also, I’m not going anywhere. :)

- My deepest gratitude and thanks, much love !

/Anton

[graceabounds]

Hello Anton,

[quote]- Yes that seems like the best way now, to just stay with it. To stop using thoughts to come up with that which is thoughtsless, to trust in that which just is.[/quote]

Sounds suspiciously like a strategy… ;)
Is there any option but being ‘with’ what is?
Where is the border between staying with it and thinking about staying with it?
Is trust a doing? Another thought inserted in the being?
Who feels better with knowing the ‘best’ way?


This is the next layer…
The gate is only the beginning. Everything gets examined in what we call the falling process, all the beliefs, the aversions. There isn’t anyone to whom all this applies, it so the whole structure of all that has been built in ‘knowing’ disintegrates over time.

Much love,
Becca