Help!

[graceabounds]

Hello Porky,

Let’s honor the truth you are seeing:

It doesn't become "mine" it's just there.

There is no proof it belongs to anyone.

Right. Even when it’s unbearable…
Even when it affects your emotional state…
Still, no one owns it.

It arises, it consumes, And still, no “you” can be found inside it.
That’s freedom, even in pain.


So now look at the next part honestly:

When it stops I kind of realize that the pain doesn't distract me from the awakening process as that is an ongoing venture and this is just a brief interlude

Feel the grip in that sentence. Like something precious could be interrupted, paused, delayed…

But this, this pain, IS the awakening.
There is no awakening apart from this moment. There is no “venture” outside of what is arising now.

Even this, especially this, is the fire that burns the illusion of control, the illusion of progress, the illusion of a you going anywhere.

The next time the pain becomes overwhelming, don’t go to the story or the meaning making. Go closer.

Let it open fully. Let the whole body feel it. And look in the middle of it:
Where is the one this is happening to?

Let the tears come, if there is indeed something repressed, let it expand and consume everything as it wishes.

But keep looking:
Is there a self in this pain? Or is there just pain?

Much love,
Becca

[Porky]

Hi Becca,

The next time the pain becomes overwhelming, don’t go to the story or the meaning making. Go closer.

Let it open fully. Let the whole body feel it. And look in the middle of it:
Where is the one this is happening to?

When going closer it seems as if the pain and depression about the pain is just there. Thoughts about it come and go and the same with the issues. It doesn't feel like it's a part of the "I" but yet it limits my activities and my way of existence.

Let the tears come, if there is indeed something repressed, let it expand and consume everything as it wishes.

But keep looking:
Is there a self in this pain? Or is there just pain?

The emotions plus pain are there. I'm not clear as the pain has consumed my feelings, yet when I read and reread your responses, then it feels as if there is no "me". The idea that this is just another story keeps ringing in my head. I will keep looking!

Thanks for your love and support.
Porky

[graceabounds]

Hello Porky,

It doesn't feel like it's a part of the "I" but yet it limits my activities and my way of existence.

Where is the me who is limited?
Not as a concept. In the direct experience of this moment, where is that one?
Look between the waves of thought and behind the emotion. Is there anyone behind the eyes, owning the pain?

Or is there only:
- Pain.
- Emotion.
- Thoughts.
- …and a thought about someone experiencing it?

Could it be that there is no ‘you’ under the pain?

Look right now. Can you find that one?
Can you locate a center inside this pain and sadness?
Not the idea or thought, but a real, fixed identity that owns it?

-Becca

[Porky]

Hi Becca,

It doesn't feel like it's a part of the "I" but yet it limits my activities and my way of existence.
Where is the me who is limited?

Right now, in experience the person who is limited is being watched by what I would call the witness.
It's probably another story but one in which I'm familiar with.

Not as a concept. In the direct experience of this moment, where is that one?

As I said, it doesn't feel like its a part of the "ME" but almost like a robot. Moving and doing what this human does.

Look between the waves of thought and behind the emotion. Is there anyone behind the eyes, owning the pain?

There doesn't appear to be anyone behind the eyes to own the pain. The pain is connected somehow to emotions and that emotion is from trauma as a child. This is being witnessed by the human occupying this body as a watcher a witness to all this. This maybe a story but one that feels like an experience. I know we have discussed this before. I haven't called the witness like I used to before, but when these questions are asked, that's when there is an experience of looking from a different perspective.

Or is there only:
- Pain.
- Emotion.
- Thoughts.
- …and a thought about someone experiencing it?

That seems accurate! The watcher or witness is a thought about someone experiencing everything.

Could it be that there is no ‘you’ under the pain?

Yes, it certainly could be! Just pain and raw emotions and thoughts about the pain and emotions.

Look right now. Can you find that one?

No, I'm numb!

Can you locate a center inside this pain and sadness?

If I look for it in the body, it comes up in my chest area. A sense of heaviness.

Not the idea or thought, but a real, fixed identity that owns it?

When I look to who owns this identity it remains fuzzy.

Thanks, Porky

[graceabounds]

The pain is connected somehow to emotions and that emotion is from trauma as a child.

Yes. Everything comes up to be seen during this process at some point. The body remembers. But to gently return to the aim here in this forum, while honoring what wants to express:

- Bring your attention to that heaviness in the chest.
Not the story around it. Just the raw sensation.
- Feel it fully—without naming it grief, pain, emotion, trauma, or energy.
- Ask the simplest, most radical question: Is there a self inside this sensation?

What if that heaviness isn’t evidence of a damaged self, but simply what aliveness feels like when it’s not resisted?

The watcher or witness is a thought about someone experiencing everything.

Exactly. Even “the witness” is just one more mask.
It seems spacious, gentle, and clear.. but it still implies someone apart from experience.

When I look to who owns this identity it remains fuzzy.

Has it ever been more than fuzzy?

Even in the clearest times, the “I” is only ever a shape made of memory and thought. There’s never been an owner. Just thoughts about one. :)

[Porky]

Hi Becca,

- Bring your attention to that heaviness in the chest.
Not the story around it. Just the raw sensation.
- Feel it fully—without naming it grief, pain, emotion, trauma, or energy.
- Ask the simplest, most radical question: Is there a self inside this sensation?

No, there is no self-inside the sensation. It's just there without ownership.

What if that heaviness isn’t evidence of a damaged self, but simply what aliveness feels like when it’s not resisted?

Then I'm okay with that.

When I look to who owns this identity it remains fuzzy.
Has it ever been more than fuzzy?

No. It's never been crystal clear.

Even in the clearest times, the “I” is only ever a shape made of memory and thought. There’s never been an owner. Just thoughts about one. :)

I can see that is true.

Thanks, Porky

[graceabounds]

Very good.
So… what now? :)

What is present?

[Porky]

Hi Becca,

So… what now? :)

I don't know. You tell me!

What is present?

The only things that are present are sensations and thoughts. That's it!

Thanks for all your help.
Porky

[graceabounds]

Haha,
I was never driving this train, Porky, no one was. :)
So has the illusion of a separate self been seen through?
Becca

[Porky]

Hi Becca,

I was never driving this train, Porky, no one was. :)

Maybe you weren't driving but you've been guiding the way.

So has the illusion of a separate self been seen through?

Without too much of a story, I would have to say, it's a work in progress!
The way I look at things is different, no doubt!
Thank You, Porky

[graceabounds]

Is there, anywhere, a you” that’s doing the work in progress?

Has a self ever been found?
(Not the idea of one, the story or the memory...)

[Porky]

Hi Becca,

Is there, anywhere, a you” that’s doing the work in progress?

There are times when the "You" is nowhere to be found.

Has a self ever been found?
(Not the idea of one, the story or the memory...)

I don't know what has been found. All that can be said is
there are times when no self is evident. To keep in that
space without thoughts of past and future coming in has been challenging!
And If presence with just sensations is the goal, then that is achieved more and more.

Thanks, Porky

[graceabounds]

there are times when no self is evident.

Right. But the key isn’t those times.
The key is this:
Has a self ever actually been found?

Not ‘is there still thinking’ or ‘do thoughts about ‘me’ still arise’

But in any moment, always now, has a self ever been directly seen?

If not, then this isn’t about “holding onto a state.”
Because there was never a self to begin with. How can one fall out of what never existed? :)

[Porky]

Hi Becca,

Has a self ever actually been found?

I don't know what is supposed to be there or not!
If you're not looking for something, how can it be found.

But in any moment, always now, has a self ever been directly seen?

No, not that I'm aware of.

If not, then this isn’t about “holding onto a state.”
Because there was never a self to begin with. How can one fall out of what never existed? :

)

This is true. What is this a Cosmic Joke? Something to laugh at as much as possible, because it is comical!
Just let it go?

[graceabounds]

yes, Porky.
Just let it go.
Everything….
Let the effort go.
Let the project go.
Let the spiritual identity go.
Let the witness go.
Let “letting go” go.

And laugh it up if that is what comes!!
:)

What is the biggest difference from before starting this conversation? What changes in everyday living? What stays the same?