not done yet

[Damon Kamda]

Ok, Prem, please understand that there is a difference between intellectually grasping this and seeing the actual reality of it. We're not here to provide you with yet another belief or doctrine, but to invite you to verify it yourself. Is it really true that there is no self?

Well, do I exist? Yes, of course I exist or better there IS Existence, certainly no me there who owns it or brings it into being. Language is misleading, but of course I can say that I exist, it's just that this 'I' has no reference point to it.

That doesn't make any sense, Prem.
"of course I can say that I exist, it's just that this 'I' has no reference point to it"
"I" has no reference point, exactly because there is no "I"- it doesn't exist.

Yes, existence IS, you however are not.

Great stuff Nomad~Kamda, excellent tracking and pointing, thank you so much, something has definitely moved here.........wow

Hmmm... please elaborate, what has moved?

[Prem]

At one point I saw that I can either keep on following the mind, thought, and get more and more bogged down by its endless questioning, arguing and doubts or simply look and admit the evidence of what this looking reveals.
It's the difference between fantasy and reality, between what IS and what the mind makes out of it or wants it to be.

This me,I, self or whatever we want to call it, is simply a thought, a habitual thought pattern. It has no reference in reality. If a thought of my computer is there, it has a reference in reality. I think of it, i open my eyes and it is there in front of me. The me is just not found like this, because it is just a fantasy. It does not exist. I does not exist.
There is Existence, but no separate, independent I found in it.........

[Damon Kamda]

Good. Clear, and to the point.

Here's some questions for you to ponder. Take your time.

- How and when was this seen?
- What is the difference before and after seeing this? What does liberation feel like?
- How would you explain all of this to someone who's never heard of this?

Thanks, Prem.

[Prem]

During the pondering of your questions, there was a kind of seeing that I can not go at this on a mental level, but must look at real evidence. More like: 'you want fantasy or truth'. From than on I could quickly see what was true and what was fantasy, as I wrote before, it is really an admittance of the evidence this investigation comes up with.

Before this, I saw everything in relation to this believed in entity. It was like one looks at everything thru a small colored glass and all takes on this hue. Remove the color and everything becomes clear, just clarity, just as it is. It is actually a small, simple thing but with huge implications. The ugly sting of falsehood goes out of it, and it feels good, much more relaxed, like there is nothing else anymore than what is happening just now.

To somebody who has never heard of this I would just try to provide hard facts - like, sit down and examine your present experience. See if you can actually find a central entity, this 'me' who is directing the whole show. Check out if you find a specific me who thinks thoughts, has feelings or directs the processes of the body. Watch how you move thru the day, the movements of the body, reactions to happenings and situations etc..
One can only explain this by pointing to the others own direct experience of this moment. Everything else will go off into the realms of imagination.

[Damon Kamda]

Looks as if you're out, Prem. Lovely.

Any questions left?

I'll ask some others if they have some questions for you.

[Prem]

Thank's Nomad~Kamda, no, no questions there right now.

Deeply grateful for your clear questions and keeping me focused............