Ready to begin. Is Ilona available for this one on one?

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jfras
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Ready to begin. Is Ilona available for this one on one?

Postby jfras » Tue May 22, 2012 9:49 pm

Hi,

My name is Donna and am so happy to have found this, it is such a gift! Would love to work with Ilona if available.

Thank you so very much

Donna

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Re: Ready to begin. Is Ilona available for this one on one?

Postby Ilona » Wed May 23, 2012 8:21 am

Hi Donna :)
Welcome here.

Yes, I can help you through. All you have to do is answer precise questions with full honesty from your own experience at least once a day.

So here we begin.
Tell me a bit about your journey so far. What brought you here, what do you expect.

Sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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Re: Ready to begin. Is Ilona available for this one on one?

Postby jfras » Wed May 23, 2012 12:44 pm

Hi dear Ilona good morning, thank you so very much!

MIne has been a long path but always in this direction, always wanting the "Divine" I could feel so strongly in me under all the "stuff." I grew up as a Roman Catholic, (wanted to be a nun my entire childhood and into late teenage years) then converted to Judaism when I met my first husband. This broke me open in many ways to a more universal view. Then I was onto to the metaphysical path, various groups, A Course in MIracles...all of that culminating in the last number of years with Eckhart Tolle, Byron Katie, the Sedona Method, Ramana Maharshi, It was really Adya and the reading of Jed McKenna's books that really broke me lose from many belief structures and I've been in a time of dismantling, truly. I feel I am right there "almost" (so my mind says.) Hearing Adya once say, "Is not the stillness, the nothingness here even in the midst of whatever is happening? " was a pivotal moment for me. I touch into this "nothing" so often...I really get that there is no "me," no self... yet the getting swept away again my emotions and losing sight of that is where I lapse into doubt. So much is different now, I know I am on the brink of abiding knowing of this nothingness. The strength of my reactive emotions lately as I get "closer" makes me wonder if my mind doesn't know this , and is throwing a hissy fit. LOL

So that is why I am here. This knowing that somehow it is right here, right now and I'm just somehow not believing it. I've been wanting this kind of guidance, pointing. My expectation? Gentle guidance, nudging, assistance to see where I'm off base however I am. I expect I will step through the gate and really know it finally, even as I know that nothing much changes at that point, except that I will just know it. (I don't even know if that makes sense.)

Yes, I will be absolutely honest and yes post at least once a day if not more. I am so very happy to have found this site and am beyond grateful for all of you being of service in this way.

Much love,
Donna

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Re: Ready to begin. Is Ilona available for this one on one?

Postby Ilona » Wed May 23, 2012 2:35 pm

thank you fro intro Donna, quite a journey, must say...

good stuff that you are feeling so close and so ready. now let's see where exactly you are at.

if you let this thought in:
there is no self at all in reality, none as in zero. no manager, no observer, no controller, no experiencer, no witness. all there is is this. life lowing freely without a separate self at all.

what feelings come up?
just describe what you see.

much love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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Re: Ready to begin. Is Ilona available for this one on one?

Postby jfras » Wed May 23, 2012 3:37 pm

Hi again Ilona,

I have been sitting with this question since reading it on your blog, and just now again....
there is no self at all in reality, none as in zero. no manager, no observer, no controller, no experiencer, no witness. all there is is this. life lowing freely without a separate self at all. what feelings come up?just describe what you see.
What shows up is:

Excitement: YES! This is so cool! I love flow! This is so! I KNOW this.

Confusion: But I seemed to make all those decisions. How did I get there from here if something wasn't somehow "doing it"? If this is so, why didn't I know all of this sooner, innately as part of me (though .. then there's this .. "but I did." ) Can this be so? Really?

Fear: What if this isn't so? What if "I" (who is that?) make another mistake, spend more years going in circles? Can this be trusted really?

Thank you,
Donna

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Re: Ready to begin. Is Ilona available for this one on one?

Postby Ilona » Wed May 23, 2012 4:54 pm

Let's go through this:
Confusion: But I seemed to make all those decisions. How did I get there from here if something wasn't somehow "doing it"? If this is so, why didn't I know all of this sooner, innately as part of me (though .. then there's this .. "but I did." ) Can this be so? Really?
You say 'seemed' have a look, was it you that made all those decisions? How decisions happen? Could you have chosen something else at that time?
Can you decide to like or not to like cheese?
Can you decide that from now on you will be a millionaire?
Investigate decision making until you know. Until there is a clear answer instead of 'seems'.

'can this be so?'- you are here to find out, for yourself, by yourself, for the love of truth. I can only point you where to look.

And fear at this time is very expected, you have never ventured this far before, so you will have to trust the process :)
We'll take a look at fear next. For now, just focus on how decisions are made. Write all that comes up.

Sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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Re: Ready to begin. Is Ilona available for this one on one?

Postby jfras » Thu May 24, 2012 1:06 am

Hi Ilona,
...was it you that made all those decisions? How decisions happen? Could you have chosen something else at that time? Can you decide to like or not to like cheese? Can you decide that from now on you will be a millionaire?
Love this question. It revealed much, much more than expected. There have been times when I thought I understood that it is not me who makes decisions, there is no "me", but hadn't really "gotten" it obviously. But with this, I sank deeply into it, and immediately remembered years and years ago, a pivotal time when I left my first marriage. I had tried several times to leave, made the decision to go...and couldn't. And then suddenly, it all was happening and there was no stopping it. I didn't make that decision at all. I knew that then too. And the way it all unfolded from there, was beyond what I ever could have planned or imagined. Life absolutely living. It was a tremendous awareness at the time. Pivotal time in this awakening, first time it was really noticed that...that there was no control at all. Something else was afoot. Not me. And as this was pondered and remembered today, life before that time, since that time, yes this is known. There hasn't been a "me" doing this at all.

No, "I" do not chose or decide anything. "I" can "attempt" ... Ha! but what happens happens. I've seen this over and over. Should I go to this place? Can't decide, can't decide. Then suddenly, wham! Off I go! Or something absolutely unexpected is done. What comes out of this mouth in words, is what comes out of this mouth (boy is that true! LOL) No, I can't decide to like or not like cheese, be a millionaire or not, love birds and animals or not, understand something or not... etc etc . When a part of the body moves, it moves. Suddenly it's up to get something. Or suddenly a weird stream of thoughts or emotions show up from out of nowhere. There wasn't a decision to think that or feel that. Or even ...writing the novel I wrote. Had planned to do that for years and never did it. Dreamt, set goals, sat down to do it...nothing. Gave up. Then from out of the blue, here came a novel, something typed it all out! Wow.

Trust of this is what is settling in. Knowing. Yes, it is seen! Has been more and more lately. A question arises...if there's no experiencer, who is experiencing? Ahhhh. Life is experiencing. This life here is experiencing. Cool.

Much love,
Donna

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Re: Ready to begin. Is Ilona available for this one on one?

Postby Ilona » Thu May 24, 2012 1:46 pm

.if there's no experiencer, who is experiencing?
there is no who.

does life experience itself or is it just happening? is life happening to you or as you? does life need a watcher?

you doing great! now dig some more.

much love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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Re: Ready to begin. Is Ilona available for this one on one?

Postby jfras » Thu May 24, 2012 2:47 pm

Hi Ilona, thank you I so love this sharing with you ... I love going deep in focus... feels like home to me ...
there is no who.
Yes! Yes there is no "who." Of course not. Even as I wrote that yesterday about "who is experiencing," I knew that it was a mind game, another identity showing up. The irony stuck out and there was awareness of that all night. There was not much sleep in the night at all ... all of this bubbling :-) Digging going on...awareness of so much around me....examining in different ways. Shifting around. (Work today is interesting ... body fatigue ... yet alertness somewhere. Here.)
does life experience itself or is it just happening?
Life lives. LIfe breathes. Life unfolds as it does. Something types this, goes within. What is that? Aspect of mind which of course is aspect of life. Life living as the senses. AHHHH! Goose bumps now! Whoa!!! Oh gosh, breathless too. Waves of chills. Ew. Sitting with this.
is life happening to you or as you? does life need a watcher?
Heavens no, life does not need a watcher. I'm laughing here out loud alone in my office. LIfe is happening as me oh yes. Thrilled and bubbling and breathing this body and having an awesome fun time in the moment.

Oh wow, now the head spins with delight.

So much love present, going to go sit with this as the work gets done.

Love you, Ilona!

Donna

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Re: Ready to begin. Is Ilona available for this one on one?

Postby jfras » Thu May 24, 2012 9:18 pm

Hi again Ilona, love... writing more, all has been so shifted this day since the sharing this morning. Completed the work day, it all flowed without the usual conditioned reactions that would show up. The bubbling continues ... LOL .... Something has moved, is less dense. Lightness! Awareness, life, something sees the movement of what is going on, all the work things that occurred, and there is rest, quietness, a deep softening. Relaxation. Gentle amusement.

Oh so very very sweet. Happiness flows.
Hugs and gratitude... this is magic.... LOL
Donna

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Re: Ready to begin. Is Ilona available for this one on one?

Postby Ilona » Thu May 24, 2012 9:42 pm

Great to hear this, Donna! I'm delighted for you. Yes, there is sweetness and joy underneath all thoughts. It's like arriving home which was never left. You are looking at it. And it's not even hidden.

So is there a you?
Is there a gate to cross?

What is the real deal here?

Lots of love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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Re: Ready to begin. Is Ilona available for this one on one?

Postby jfras » Fri May 25, 2012 12:08 am

Ohhhh dear Ilona. Yes, never left, not hidden, closer than breath. Amazing. :-) These questions touch deeply, warmth spreads throughout. A wondering thought shows up, wondering why, why today, why such simple questions have stripped away something that seemed to lurk for so long. That was looked at for so long without really noticing. LOL The "why " questions have always arisen, the "why girl" role. But just now , the "why" dissipates like smoke, just as irritation that popped in earlier at the end of the work day, passed on through. The hooks aren't there at the moment. Or the identification... hard to articulate the difference, the noticing. So sweet. yummmmm And then a worry thought pops in..."will it go away?" What "it" ? ? LOL What "it?" There's just this, life, here. Wow, that thought flashed in and out fast. Noticing. Yes.
So is there a you?
No. No "me". There is no "me." No self. No "Who" even. The idea of "Me" is a thing like a shirt, or a robe...an identity that was solidly enmeshed here with roles and moods and things for so long. Up until several years ago, I never even knew that anything like this could be so. Just was so rock solid sure those thoughts and emotions and personality was who I was. And the divine was there but separate. And "I" was trying to get "better" to get "there." (Such misunderstanding of what is. Innocent misudnerstanding always.) Which was no where all along, and no one to get there. LOL :-) :-) (Part of the earlier misunderstanding evolved from two incredible night time "dreams" that occurred in the mid 70s... "mystical" dreams of oneness and unity and knowing ALL. It was always believed "that" was IT...enlightenment. THAT had to be attained. That was where this "I" was headed and needed to be living all the time. LOL. Such confusion.)

Wow. Recently, the intellectual "knowing" of the concept of this "no self", life living this "me" had been there but something was still stuck in identity most of the time, when life was living all along. Interesting. How could that not be known? LOL
Is there a gate to cross?
Nope. No gate. Nowhere to get to. Nothing. LIfe is. :-) Life living this. There is opening ... could seem like a gate... there was this experience there...and now there's knowing and just hereness. Just is.
What is the real deal here?
No, no real deal here. (I laugh.) Life just is living. And it's so simple. Flowing with isness. Words are so funny. Could scramble letters and be the same thing. Thoughts or emotons flow in and out and they aren't any more real than this "me" identity. It's just wafts of whatever passing through. LOL Such rambling here ... and fun. Loving the expressing that which can't be expressed really. Sweetness persists. So soft, gentle, tender. Image of young child wobbly on newly steady legs pops in. Delight. Tenderness.

Loving ... Being with this. There is ongoing class tonight. Wondering if I will attend...it's on the phone. Notice wish to just be in this and not be going outward. Will see what unfolds. If this hand picks up the phone, if there will be engagement or not.

Wow so interesting.
Big hugs to you
Donna

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Re: Ready to begin. Is Ilona available for this one on one?

Postby Ilona » Fri May 25, 2012 11:18 am

hey Donna, it was delightful to read your message. looks like there has been a shift and seeing happening. so sweet.
can you answer these questions as fully and honestly as possible. when it feels right.


1) Is there a 'me', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.

3) How does it feel to see this?

4) How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion but is curious about it.

5) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

much love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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jfras
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Re: Ready to begin. Is Ilona available for this one on one?

Postby jfras » Fri May 25, 2012 12:36 pm

Dearest Ilona...

Received this and am delighted! Being with it in my work day and will be answering later.

Thank you most precious guide,

Donna

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Re: Ready to begin. Is Ilona available for this one on one?

Postby jfras » Fri May 25, 2012 3:59 pm

Hi dear Ilona,

Found the body at the computer, writing writing writing. That "work" stuff, not so important in the moment. :-) So much joy present! So here are the answers:
1) Is there a 'me', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
No, there is no “me” at all. There never has been ever. There is life living. The “me” is a conditioning, belief that was picked up along the way and subscribed to like a monthly magazine. LOL Funny
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.
Illusion of separate self and the when, how of it. Interesting. It starts at some point in babyhood/childhood, the programming begins. As this has been pondered over time, it is noted in the experience that “I” was a happy child-being, living full of joy, just there. Energetic and filled with life! It is clearly remembered the changes in the beings surrounding this little body, Mom, family, friends etc in my experience as this body grew, as some aspect of the being...the mind ...learned. Something was off. There were things that hurt the body for being who "I" always had been. Very very quickly, this life learned how to stop that forceful stuff coming at the body, to mold behavior to get away from the pain, creating this separate self that began to feel so real. Heavy heavy “instruction” came at this “me” who was suddenly there, and it felt like if this body was to survive, it better get with the program. Learned all of this very very quickly and then it continued to get denser and denser. That's how it works. The programming and learning is taken on, it's quickly learned how to manipulate things to get along, and amnesia sets in. However, for this life, there was always this inner sense of things not being right though, in all of this. Something was “off.” A truth was remembered vaguely, and this “I” latched onto what was present at hand in that time in chidlhood. Church, Mass, nuns. I felt that "life" essence again when I would be in church, hearing the music, smelling the incense, feeling a sweet energy come over me again that was so loved. And it was continued from there, the birth of the seeker, the searcher after "truth." Not realizing...it had never been lost.

There is clear memory too of that early awareness, of sitting at the dinner table one night when the body was about 8 or so... telling the parents that “I” wasn’t what was inside this head (and the hands patted the skull to illuminate the point. LOL) This was something that was way beyond what this body was. It was just what was. "I" knew. "I" knew then. (Poor bewildered parents always wondered what planet this child came from. LOL)
3) How does it feel to see this?
Great relief. OH yes, of course! It feels wonderful. Soooooooooo cool. A real “Ah HA!” That’s all it was, programming like the programming of a computer. Somewhat necessary for life to function on the planet, it is supposed, but really all an illusion in terms of this “self” that got manufactured. How ironic. Such joy to see. And a bit of exasperation that arises that...here life was / is ...and simply overlooked it. Compassion for that too. And it all passes through.
4) How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion but is curious about it.
This would be gently offered, as occurred here at 8 years of age, “Have you noticed there seems to be something more here than the personality, an essence, an aliveness that lives? Not personality, not the thoughts tripping through, emotions showing up, not this “you” that is believed to exist? Have you noticed that what happens, happens? There is no control? What is breathing the body? What is beating the heart? What is living? Notice what is under all the mind /emotional stuff, under the stories, under the non-stop inner narration. Is there anything at all? There has been much conditioning around this, to believe there is a separate self. But notice. Is there anything there at all but life?”
5.What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
Ahhh. The question about decisions was really the push, really opened the seeing. Oh wow was a wonderful noticing. “...was it you that made all those decisions? How decisions happen? Could you have chosen something else at that time?” That was the pivotal moment. That day of seeing the truth of what had unfolded in life, it being lived. And the seeing immediately after about the “no experiencer” ... All fell away then. Joy appeared. Gentle joy, delight. SInce then, stuff, emotions arise, but they are not latched onto as what is anymore. They pop in, out. This is all loved beyond words. There is this memory (reading back) of fear that surfaced with the first discussion, and there is none of that at all in this. There is just knowing present, passing through. Absolute delight, gratiitude, amazement. Calm. There had been looking before, but was so simple, was overlooked. LOL Curiosity rises about life continuing on ... there is knowing that this continues on. And love is just so here now.

Thank you thank you for gentle guidance and presence, Ilona. There is simple amazement present. LOL

Hugs,
Donna


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