Ilona, are you available?

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Brian
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Ilona, are you available?

Postby Brian » Wed May 02, 2012 8:06 pm

Ilona, are you available to assist me to the gate? I see you've just begun with someone this very day, so I hope you're not too busy. I've been around this site for the past 10 days or so - read many liberation threads of yours and several other liberators, and I just finished Gateless Gatecrashers, and i can't wait any longer. I've been after this for practically 40 years to the day, and I had all but given up. Finding this site is serendipitous to the point of miraculous.

For most of that time I just wanted "Brian" to feel better, not be such a screwup and such a secret phony. For the past year or so though, I've really been driven by discovering the truth and living my remaining time truly.

About a year ago I happened on an article that had me try to predict my next thought. I was stunned. I was not the thinker! In fact, there was no mechanism at all in the space I was aware of to generate thought. "I" was merely a receiver. That really undermined my idea of what I was, but I didn't know what to do about it. I was reading Ramesh Balsekar and trying to see that I wasn't the doer, but without any change. After seeing the video that blows away free will, I googled "no self " and found the website by that name. I followed the instruction of enquiry. I think maybe something happened. I had a little, I thought, intellectual shock at realizing that the I was a thought, not really real in any way - a minor "wow" and finished the exercise. But, and I can't be sure of this yet, maybe the past couple of weeks have just been relatively stress free, things don't seem to bother me or hook me so deeply emotionally as they did before. Everything that used to bother me still bothers me, but its muffled, or at a distance or something. The upset doesn't go as deep, hurt as much or as long. Subtle but substantial at the same time.

Also, while reading about Elizabeth in Gateless Gatecrashers, I suddenly "was" Brian
in the space outside the I thoughts. They sort of appeared as bubbles, and I felt a certainty, an "of courseness" that I wasn't them. (There, it just happened again. I screwed up typing, got way overly hot at myself, and instead of it lingering, it's gone in an instant.)

I still feel and act like an I, I know intellectually I am not, and I feel something has started, but mostly I'm at if not square one, then square two. However, for the first time in these 40 often desperate and hopes-chrushed and hopeless years, I have this sense that I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna get this done. This is what I came here (and to this site) to do.

Lots of fears before I finally made my plea. I guess I need to really examine them, but Ilona, I would really appreciate your help.

Hope I haven't set the record for most long winded opening post, but thank you- all of you for what you are doing. I am moved right now considering it.

Brian

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Ilona
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Re: Ilona, are you available?

Postby Ilona » Sun May 06, 2012 8:17 pm

Hi Brian,

Thank you very much for the call. I love to assist in this part of the journey.

No you haven't broken the record of longest post :) hehe
Thank you for introduction, it helps me see where you are at

One sentence that stroke, you said- 'I' is a receiver. No it isn't.
There is no I at all as in zero. Thinking is happening, receiving is happening, but there is no receiver.

The easiest way to see it is by examining language. I is a thought, yes, it's a label. Part of label of action that this body is engaged in.

Look- I breathe, I sit, I type, I eat, I sleep, I walk. Is there I that does all those actions?
If its said in a different way;
Breathing is happening, sitting is happening, typing is happening, eating is happening etc, is the first way to say what is happening truer than the second? What happens to the subject then?

So the language assumes a doer and so we believe that there is a doer.
But have a look closely, is there?

Right here, right now, describe what is happening, first using the I, then without using the I word.
Can you sense the difference in actual experience or difference is only in the style of description?


Please reply when you ready, with full, honest answer from your own observation.


Sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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Brian
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Re: Ilona, are you available?

Postby Brian » Mon May 07, 2012 8:34 am

Hi Ilona,

Thank you so much for taking up my request. I am tremendously excited and somewhat
fearful...mostly excited. Thank you again.

Yes, I understand now that adding "I" to that awareness that perceives thoughts is adding
something unreal, madeup. Awareness labels something real. The "I" in I am awareness is an unnecessary,
fake add on that doesn't label anything real. It's a thought itself.
Right here, right now, describe what is happening, first using the I, then without using the I word.
Can you sense the difference in actual experience or difference is only in the style of description?
Right now, I am sitting, I typing, I am reading, I am thinking, I am tapping my thumb against my lip
as I think. or...

sitting is happening, typing is happening, thinking (or thought) is happening, tapping of the right thumb
against the lip is happening

There is no change in the experience. If anything "sitting, typing is happening" etc, "feels" cleaner, lighter, more precise, truer. Like maybe there's an emotional residue around that word "I" in "I am whatever"... that isn't there with just "sitting is, typing is."
The I is felt again as an unnecessary add-on, not describing anything real that's happening. It adds nothing and I think it's actually distracting when this is looked at closely.

That was an interesting result. I hope "I'm" not overanalyzing this.

Thanks again,
Brian

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Re: Ilona, are you available?

Postby Ilona » Mon May 07, 2012 10:00 am

You are welcome Brian.

Good stuff.
Now watch closely, if you can find a doer in any action
When you do some simple task, housework, walking, showering, notice if in any of the actions is a doer or all is happening on automatic. What is not on automatic?


I am awareness is a common trap.
Loose I
Loose awareness.
Awareness is like a space that registers whatever apears in it. Is it you? Does it need a you to be awaring?

Am is all that is left.
All identification, all 'that' is assumed and believed. But does this sense of being, aliveness need a label? Is it personal? What feelings rise up here?

Much love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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Brian
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Re: Ilona, are you available?

Postby Brian » Mon May 07, 2012 10:54 pm

Hi Ilona,
Intellectually, I see clearly that awareness doesn't need an I, and that awareness is present before there is an I that claims ownership of it. The idea of an I that owns awareness is ridiculous.
But then I feel an emotional connection to the idea “I am awareness” I think, if I'm not awareness, what am I? There is some fear of being nothing, or not being.

I will examine actions looking for a doer, for “what is not on automatic” and post you results. Again some fear comes up at the idea of being “on automatic”. If it's all on automatic, there's no “me”,
who will be there to experience anything? “I'll” be dead. Well, I can see that with all my intellectual
understanding of “no I”, there is a real fear of not being that. That which I “know” doesn't make sense or exist. It's crazy.

Brian

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Re: Ilona, are you available?

Postby Ilona » Tue May 08, 2012 7:50 am

Hey brian. I see that fear showed up, that is a great sign that you are going somewhere where where you never ventured before. As in moving forwards.

Ok, if there is no me, then there never was a me and there is nothing that dies. It's just a belief, that has never been questioned, so nothing is going to disappear, all already is as its should be as always.

What is going on- the mind is untangling the confusion. It has always believed that there is this entity me that needs to be protected. Here comes the fear- it's an accompanied friend of unquestioned beliefs.

But let's look at the mechanism of fear itself. How does it work?
Can you ask that fear to come closer and examine it. How does a thought trigger the feeling in the body, where is it felt, what reactions happen? Observe this mechanism. Thank it, all it's doing is its job- it's a security system.

Bow to the fear and appreciate how well it's doing what it is doing.

Then look behind it- what is there to protect?
Ask it, what needs to be protected?
Look behind, what is there?



Sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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Brian
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Re: Ilona, are you available?

Postby Brian » Tue May 08, 2012 11:16 pm

Hello Ilona,

First to report on "Is anything not on automatic?" I noticed that almost everything is on automatic. Driving is automatic, even
unconscious, until "I" need to make a turn, or something requires conscious attention. Making dinner, taking a shower, "I" find
I do almost everything automatically, while listening, actually paying attention to a completely unrelated mental conversation. So for probably
95% of the time the body is acting while attention is on unrelated thoughts. I also noticed how events trigger bursts of thought and caught the I thought darting in to take ownership. When an action seems to need conscious attention, it still feels like there's an "I" there running the show, even though I've experienced that those thoughts appear without an I thinking them. I was washing dishes when the thought struck me (I had read it in one or more threads from this site) "Life is happening. It just isn't happening to anyone." Life is happening - it just isn't happening to a "me". I've returned to that several time since last night (I'm on the west coast of the US, by the way) "Getting it" feels so close when "I" ponder that thought

On the fear, I've tried this once before using the instructions from your blog. Right now, if I think, " I am not, there is no I, never was. Brian doesn't exist, I feel some fear, anxiousness as a prickly sensation on or just under my skin at the bottom of my ribcage. It is a familiar spot. It seems to be warning me "Something bad is going to happen." rather than anything specific about "I" not existing. It wants me to be careful. I see it's trying to protect me. When
I asked what needs to be protected, I got "Brian" - I couldn't get if it meant the body or "person" When I look past it, I don't see anything, but I didn't feel the fear relax or go away. Maybe because, I have other concerns in my life right now that are triggering apprehension also.

All this feels incomplete, though I really dug into it.

Brian

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Re: Ilona, are you available?

Postby Ilona » Tue May 08, 2012 11:55 pm

look at brian as a character in a story. does brian need to be protected? can anything happen to a character, if so, what?
dig deeper here. getting close. :)
When an action seems to need conscious attention, it still feels like there's an "I" there running the show, even though I've experienced that those thoughts appear without an I thinking them.
when action needs conscious attention, is there anything that directs attention or is it also on automatic? investigate that.

there is a thought appearing- i am running the show.
is this true?
is this thought truer or not- show is playing out by itself.

what would be lost if there was no i running the show?

sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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Brian
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Re: Ilona, are you available?

Postby Brian » Wed May 09, 2012 1:19 am

Hi Ilona,
look at brian as a character in a story. does brian need to be protected? can anything happen to a character, if so, what?
No, brian in a story is a fiction, not in the real world. He doesn't need to be protected. There is nothing to protect. Nothing actual can happen to him. He doesn't exist. Sinking in.
when action needs conscious attention, is there anything that directs attention or is it also on automatic? investigate that.
Wow, that one caught "me" by surprise. Directing attention is completely automatic - it just pops up like all other thoughts. And to clearly answer your prior question "is anything not on automatic?" the answer is no, everything is on automatic, including the thoughts of an "I" that is directing attention anywhere. Wow, that's sinking in.

Thank you so much (Feels like the only "right" salutation)

Brian

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Brian
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Re: Ilona, are you available?

Postby Brian » Wed May 09, 2012 1:49 am

Hi Ilona,

Got so engaged in the previous questions, I missed these.
there is a thought appearing- i am running the show.
is this true?
is this thought truer or not- show is playing out by itself.

what would be lost if there was no i running the show?
No, that thought is not true. It always comes after attention has been alerted or directed.

The show is playing out by itself is truer. There is that fear/apprehension again. Same sensation under my ribs. feels like "something will be lost" (Got this before i even read your last question)

Nothing real would be lost. This sensation is here. it feels like mild fear. This is real - it is happening right now -but it's happening to no one? It's happening in this body/brain/memory bank, true, actual - but it is not happening to any ONE. Everything is still here, body, thoughts, world, Everything is still happening, all the same except Perception of it al,l thoughts/feelings about it all, participation in it all - but not by any ONE.
No me, no self, no I perceiving,thinking,feeling,doing. This organism, this being, not I.

have to go to work.

Love,

Brian

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Re: Ilona, are you available?

Postby Ilona » Wed May 09, 2012 8:17 am

Great work brian!

So tell me, is there a me that can cross the gateless gate?
Is there a gate?


Much love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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Brian
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Re: Ilona, are you available?

Postby Brian » Wed May 09, 2012 10:42 pm

Hi Ilona,

I haven't answered for a day because I'm not sure how to answer. Everything you said yesterday seemed to get right at "me":

Seeing Brian as a character in a story not needing protection because he doesn't exist, realizing there was no I that paid attention, that all was on automatic. And then as I was looking at the fear and hoping/expecting would go away when it saw it wasn't protecting anything, I realized that the fear, the thoughts about it, everything going on in that moment, didn't have to change at all, and because all that stuff was there, it didn't mean it was all happening to a "me". Life, "my" life, the life of this body/brain/mind, doesn't need a "me" to experience it. And realizing that doesn't mean that anything at all has to "change" Life doesn't need a "lifer", It just goes on as usual. As it always has.

Ilona I'm not sure I realized there's no me, or rather, that there's no me, no experiencer, NECESSARY for all that stuff to be experienced. This is the clearest I've been able to explain it even to "myself". Because I feel the same, I still go about as if I were the old "me". Things still bother me - get me upset. It feels like maybe it's over and I haven't gotten yet, like I've broken the plane of the goal but not hit the net yet. (To use what I hope is a decent soccer analogy)

So I'm not sure if it's just intellectually or or something deeper when I say that there is no me that can cross the gateless gate, and with no me, there is no gate to cross. They are both characters in a story and exist nowhere in reality.

Confused in California,

Brian

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Re: Ilona, are you available?

Postby Ilona » Wed May 09, 2012 11:12 pm

oh yeah, you are staring right at it. now just let it sink in. i mean, notice it sinking in..
good work brian.

we will talk more tomorrow. rest now.

much love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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Brian
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Re: Ilona, are you available?

Postby Brian » Thu May 10, 2012 7:32 am

OK. Yes.

Thank you as ever,
Brian

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Re: Ilona, are you available?

Postby Ilona » Thu May 10, 2012 2:06 pm

How is it going today?
Do you exist? :)
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com


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