Jasmine, this thread is for you :).

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jasmine
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Jasmine, this thread is for you :).

Postby jasmine » Wed Mar 14, 2012 12:23 am

Hello,

My friend Marty sent me a link to you.
I've felt a strong resonance to inquiry since my early 20's and have used self-inquiry for some time.
Everything in my life is about self-realization and i am happy to be here to have this opportunity to explore this with you at this time.
jasmine

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Ilona
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Re: Jasmine, this thread is for you :).

Postby Ilona » Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:13 am

Hi jasmine, welcome to the forum.:)

What brings you here? What expectations do you have about this process?
Can you make a list of what you want seeing the truth to be like and what you don't.
What it should be and what it shouldn't.

Just write it all out.

Much love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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jasmine
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Re: Jasmine, this thread is for you :).

Postby jasmine » Sun Mar 18, 2012 8:08 am

Hi Ilona, I am here... found my thread : )

list of what I want seeing the truth to be like:
serenity
stillness
clarity
a constant state of love
presence
happiness
eternal communion with the beloved
being cared for nurtured
being safe
to know myself... to know all other
peace

what I don't want seeing the truth to be like:
aloneness
despair
chaos
separation
confusion
cruelty
pain
isolation
no protection
no one to care for me
eternal suffering


about my expectations... not really sure... i think i am just open to see what unfolds...

thank you!
jasmine

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Ilona
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Re: Jasmine, this thread is for you :).

Postby Ilona » Sun Mar 18, 2012 1:08 pm

hi Jasmine,

thank you for the answer.
seeing the truth does not change anything, it's simply seeing this as it it. it does not give an eternal peace and happiness, this is just a magical thinking of happy ever after. it allows one to see life directly and experience freedom in sadness and aloness without having to name it bad or wrong.

if you grew up with Santa story, or some other magical story, do you remember how it was to realize the truth that there is no magical characters in real life? that was seeing through illusion that parents made you believe. (or not, but you can imagine that as this is pretty common- letting children believing i magic)

so yes, there is this magical I/ me that can not be found, but people are still believing in it. so seeing the truth is just a drop of that belief. life is going on as it always did, and no change gonna happen, other than in the way it's perceived.


so take another look at expectations and write it all out, no matter how magical they are, just so you can inspect it closely and we can leave them here before taking a fresh look.

much love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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jasmine
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Re: Jasmine, this thread is for you :).

Postby jasmine » Sun Mar 18, 2012 4:42 pm

Thank you... this is very helpful what you wrote...

my expectations:
i expect to wake-up
to end suffering in my life
to never suffer again
to have everything go my way from now on
to be at peace
to find love
to be happy at last and that that be forever
to never be alone again
to get out of this chaos
to feel love for everyone and everything and loved by everyone and everything
to not be tortured by my thoughts again
to be unified in a romantic relationship :) haha

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Re: Jasmine, this thread is for you :).

Postby Ilona » Sun Mar 18, 2012 6:24 pm

This is a beautiful an honest list of expectations. Thank you, but we are gonna leave all them to rest here for a while and once you come back to them later you will tell what are true and what are magical thinking.

One thing that you wrote is spot on- no more torture by thoughts. You will see that there is no thinker, no I that thinks thoughts and does action and thoughts are no longer a problem.

Let's start by examining thought itself. Where does it come from?
Are you thinking thoughts? Can you shut them down at will for like 10 min?
If you can not do that, what does it mean? Is I thought anymore special than other thoughts?

Just take a close look and write what you find. Dig deep.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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jasmine
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Re: Jasmine, this thread is for you :).

Postby jasmine » Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:55 pm

This is what i'm noticing... the thoughts just appear out of nowhere... sometimes thoughts appear not in words but rather images (of people or 'future' actions i will take, or things i will say for example). These images are also like thoughts and they also appear out of nowhere...
so in that, i can see that "I" am not actually the thinker of the thought...
when i try to shut the thoughts down for 10 minutes... i can't... thoughts or images appear out of the blue again... if i concentrate really hard, i focus on "don't think for 10 minutes" for example, and i repeat this sentence like a mantra for 10 minutes - then it would seem that i am in control of stopping thought... but actually what happens is that "I" still can't do it... suddenly more images or thoughts appear during those 10 minutes, and it's an effort to bring the mind back to the no thinking...

So, am I in control of thinking? No
Actions are the same... they seem to just happen...

Earlier in the kitchen i got a glimpse of what that means - it's like it's all just a happening...
but then the "I" thought comes back... Like I am the one doing this or that... or I WANT this or that... even I am trying to wake up and i can't...

I'm also confused... i see the thoughts appear, but then i see I thought fight with those thoughts... is there an I (self) fighting back with I (thoughts or God that is just appearing) ??

If there is no I-self... why am i so tortured?

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Re: Jasmine, this thread is for you :).

Postby Ilona » Sun Mar 18, 2012 10:15 pm

Very good work jasmine. Going right for it.

If ther is no I-self, but there is a belief in I-self then you get that torture.
Good news is, there is no I-self, and never was, there is no one to be tortured.

What is that I that suffers?
Can it be located?

Suffering arises from the core belief that there is sufferer here to which suffering happens.
Check if it's true. What comes up when I say, there is no sufferer at all, just raw sensations + story + coments that go on by themselves in automatic.


Keep digging.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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Re: Jasmine, this thread is for you :).

Postby jasmine » Sun Mar 18, 2012 11:03 pm

this is what i'm discovering:

i noticed i had the thought to take a shower
and i thought i will inquire into the questions you asked while in the shower
then while showering, there is no-one there... just showering happening... washing hair, turning on more hot water, etc.
but i am not there to remember this is what is going on...

then suddenly the thought: "I didn't remember to inquire..." and "I will always be in this perpetual suffering..."

That I thought seems to be identified to a body... this body

so the I that suffers is linked to this body
I believe I am the body

... of course i have no proof that i am the body other than the I thought that appears that I exist at all... but in that moment IT does appear AND I AM THE I... ???!!!??

also, it seems that when something happens to this body - I suffer
I also seem to be able to control the direction this body goes in, and what it does... although only when "I" exist... (or i remember to remember that i exist)
it's weird

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Re: Jasmine, this thread is for you :).

Postby jasmine » Sun Mar 18, 2012 11:30 pm

... who is the one that believes the "I"? (the I thought that arises)

isn't the one that believes the I (the believer) a separate self? or is believing just an involuntary happening?

"I" am taking a shower... in that moment I believe that i exist:
I am the body
I am doing something
I exist in time and space
"I" - the thought - is my identity

... I see that I is just a thought... but i still believe it is me... it is attached to this moment, this body, this doing...

"I" cannot not believe i am not this - that would be another thought trying to no believe I...

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Re: Jasmine, this thread is for you :).

Postby Ilona » Mon Mar 19, 2012 9:41 am

so the I that suffers is linked to this body
I believe I am the body
Interesting. I is linked to the body, how?
Which part of the body contains I?
If body looses both legs and both arms, is there loess of I?
Whith closed eyes, can you find a line between the body and what is outside the body? Where is I located?

Please answer each question precisely as you can.


Much love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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jasmine
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Re: Jasmine, this thread is for you :).

Postby jasmine » Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:13 pm

I is linked to the body, how?
This life seems to revolve around this body. Since i am a child people address me, find me, in relationship to this body. If somebody hits this body, i feel the physical pain more than if they where to hit another, or a plant, or animal...
(although i am getting a glimpse that all pain is psychological not physical as i am writing this)
It also seems that thoughts arise, and i-this body has the control and power to move around and create a life for itself...
In other words, as thoughts arise they seem to be connected to this body, and as i-the body does things in the world, and meets people, talks... everything and everyone seems to answer back to this form... it gives me a sense of identity. Even as i am typing this there is a sense that it relates to me (although less so in this moment because i can't be located)
Also other people react to this body... other people confirm "I" (that i exist)

Which part of the body contains I?
No part.
When i look to find which part i don't find one

If body looses both legs and both arms, is there loess of I?
no

Whith closed eyes, can you find a line between the body and what is outside the body? Where is I located?
this i've felt for a long time. it's not located neither inside or outside. It doesn't seem to be located in the body more than outside the body.

yet when I thoughts arise they locate to a (this) body
is that what needs to happen in order to exist?
Thoughts need to identify to something in order to 'have a life' / live themselves out?
what does that mean? that nothing becomes something? but is that something me? it doesn't seem that i exist other than a thought... but why do i experience continuity?
And why do they keep locating to the same body?
And if i am not the body then it doesn't really matter what happens to it right?

and why to i feel so much emotional pain when say, a lover leaves me?

i realize i'm all over the place... i am really wanting to look at things closely and not just on surface.
i haven't had an opportunity to inquire in this way before... thank you.

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Re: Jasmine, this thread is for you :).

Postby Ilona » Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:42 pm

ok, so here is this body with brain and neurons. it is a biological machine, an alive organism.
does it need a manager?
does brain need instructions how to run the body?
can it be that brain has created an image, labelled it "I" and now everything is seen through "I lens". what is here if there is no label?
does life goes around a center? is i a center of experience? and when was I given to you?

keep digging. :)
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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jasmine
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Re: Jasmine, this thread is for you :).

Postby jasmine » Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:27 pm

does it need a manager? does brain need instructions how to run the body?
No, it functions on it's own

can it be that brain has created an image, labelled it "I" and now everything is seen through "I lens".
i suppose it's possible..

what is here if there is no label?
just life

does life goes around a center? is i a center of experience?
it would seem so that life goes around 'my' center

and when was I given to you?
i just remember as a child people looking at me, this body, and giving me a name and identity, and then me responding to that...

i feel a little stuck

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Re: Jasmine, this thread is for you :).

Postby Ilona » Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:49 pm

It's ok to feel a bit stuck, let's push forwards.
If there are no labels and there is just life, what happens to 'my' life? Does life belong to a me? Can you sense in any way ownership of life?

Is there a centre if it's not labelled 'my centre?'
With closed eyes, find a centre, where is it? can you find a line that divides here from there?
If you hear a distant sound, is it heard inside the body or where it happens?

If you were to take a finger and point to 'my center' where would the finger end up pointing?

Sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com


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