Finding Neo, losing Neo

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LostNeo
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Finding Neo, losing Neo

Postby LostNeo » Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:03 am

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I understand it conceptually and also by some fleeting experiences of not being identified with my ego as me or self. I also understand that "self" is an illusion, but I am still attached to my created self and the story behind it.

What are you looking for at LU?
Total liberation from the false self, every identification with who "I AM" and permanent realization that I am not and that there is no me. I get it, but then again I don't get it. At moments I feel total clarity and being unattached to anything, then some thoughts or emotions come and the story behind myself lifts its head up and here we go again. Like a rollercoaster. I look to be free. Simple.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
There are some expectations on the basis of the book and other direct pointing conversations, but I really have no idea how it will go. I expect an honest guidance, a straightforward pointing on where to look and how to proceed. I've had enough of this play of trying to open the door with violence and all other imaginable tactics. I want the pandora box open.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I was accidentally in a cult (for over 7 years) - not realizing it until about 3 months ago when the bubble just bursted. That was the heaviest experience for me - I wasn't anything special, we were not "the chosen ones" and that our meditation teacher was a freud and manipulative energy vampire :(
Before that there was a sort of waking up from the dream, reading Tolle etc. etc., but nothing really transforming.
today I take meditation as a practice to train my mind and nervous system, but it really doesn't lead to any liberation; which I have accepted also. That's why I am here.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?:
11

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Ilona
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Re: Finding Neo, losing Neo

Postby Ilona » Sun Jul 23, 2017 9:10 pm

Hi Neo,
Welcome to the forum!
We can have a conversation and see what happens. All I ask of you is to be completely honest and write from your experience alone, not from what you have learned so far, but what you can observe yourself.
Please write at least once a day, writing helps mind to focus, so use this forum to express what needs to be expressed. This is your process, I can only show the way, you are the one to do the work.

Thank you for intro. Ouch about the cult. Thanks god you escaped! Well done.

You say you are looking for freedom. Freedom from what exactly? What is that is not free? How freedom would look like? You say that you are attached to the story, how does the story attach? To what? What makes it stick?

Looking forward to our conversation.

Sending love

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LostNeo
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Re: Finding Neo, losing Neo

Postby LostNeo » Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:52 am

Hello Ilona, thank you for taking the step towards guiding me. I was secretly hoping that the guide would be you, so I am very grateful of this <3

I've nearly read the whole Gateless Gatecrashers book - it has helped me a lot. It seems that I have been able to go deeper into the selfless "experience" and the realization of no-self. I am not sure if I already "got it" or not, that's why I am really looking forward to really looking what's there.
You say you are looking for freedom. Freedom from what exactly? What is that is not free? How freedom would look like? You say that you are attached to the story, how does the story attach? To what? What makes it stick?
Freedom from the believing of the thoughts that appear in my consciousness. Sometimes very very easy, sometimes they take over. When in vacation (at the moment), everything is easier to just let be and go.

Also freedom from the attachment of believing that there is a self, a person, a character. I know it is there because "I" have carefully built it, but at this point the me becomes more and more just a vehicle that can navigate in this world.

"I" have a good profession (medical doctor), "I" am quite successful in everything I do, also have been writing books about health etc. At times I am identified with my character, at times totally free from it. So it seems that the thoughts that appear into my consciousness dictate the direction.

At the moment there is a sense of restfulness, realization of the character, no attachment to it whatsoever. BUT, I want to go deeper, to really look if this is true.

Yesterday there was this dissolving into the nature, mostly water. No me present anywhere, no self.
I would like to share this quote that has been appearing in my consciouness for two days:

“You must be shapeless, formless, like water. When you pour water in a cup, it becomes the cup. When you pour water in a bottle, it becomes the bottle. When you pour water in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Water can drip and it can crash. Become like water my friend.”
– Bruce Lee

I have dropped reading any spiritual books or texts a few years ago, they just don't seem to do anything anymore. Jed McKenna was the last one, but to me it was too nihilistic and dark. No joy.

Let's begin the conversation :)

Love <3

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LostNeo
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Re: Finding Neo, losing Neo

Postby LostNeo » Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:22 am

Hello :)

"I" was wauting for your reply but then I realised that this is about "me" not "you" but just looking deeper.

I am also following my wife's process with this looking (she is here too) and what kind of feelings arise in my consciousness.
You say that you are attached to the story, how does the story attach? To what? What makes it stick?
Stories! Everything is a story, life is a story, everyone has their own. Stories arise from the thoughts that become beliefs. So stories cannot attach, only the beliefs that make the stories appear do the attaching. But there is really nothing to be attached but the belief which is a creation of the mind. So when I look carefully of a story there is nothing behind it, absolutely nothing.

So what makes a story stick is a belief. Which again is a thought that the mind starts believing in and repeating.

Then there is fear. What if the story drops? What is left then?
I read this article of yours on fears and it was so simple! OMG. Just looking behind the fear 😅 a relief. Then nothing. Didn't die.

For "me" I've had fears for uncomfortable feelings when tired and exhausted. This person has been on the limit of absolute fatigue (because of work and a super demanding mind) a few times past 15 years.

But now being a dad with a 1.5 year old super energetic girl who doesn't sleep all that well at times has made "me" go deeper into this fear of being tired. Now there is tiredness or there is not. "I" might wake up 10 times per night or not at all. A story is still somewhat there (that "I" wont make it) but I've been able to look behind it, behind the story. Behind it there is nothing. And at the same time the emotions are also diminishing, thoughts about the story disappearing. Believing in the story dropping off bit by bit.

So here is where I need your help/confirmation:
It seems that I have looked about the self not finding anymore anything. It seems that the process is already unfolding; different structures dropping off bit by bit.
A lot has been coming to the surface in dreams, lots of old crap, old beliefs and patterns. There has been crying in the dreams, releasing attachment to beliefs and stories.

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Ilona
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Re: Finding Neo, losing Neo

Postby Ilona » Tue Jul 25, 2017 1:26 pm

Hi Lostneo, thank you for writing. You got it right, it's about you not me. :) write even if I don't answer.

Good stuff, looks that you are in process already and is going well. Now let's take a look at the core. There is a default belief, on which all beliefs are stuck on. That is that I is a separate entity, independent of life, to which like is happening. Now what happens, if you let this thought in-
There is no i at all, none as in zero. Never was. No separate entity in charge of a little piece of life, no entity as the manager, thinker, doer, feeler. No i that is making life happen. There is life flowing freely as all movement and all forms. There is being (verb) aliveness, and there are no separate alivenesses, it's all one same aliveness.

Write immediately what comes up wine you ponder on this.

Sending love

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LostNeo
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Re: Finding Neo, losing Neo

Postby LostNeo » Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:43 pm

There is a default belief, on which all beliefs are stuck on. That is that I is a separate entity, independent of life, to which like is happening. Now what happens, if you let this thought in.
That´s it! That is the core - when there is a drop of "me" or self, nothing can touch me. This has been now obvious when being interaction with my mother (a clear mirror) and father (another mirror). I used to react to everythig they do that I wouldn't accept as being part of "me" or life. Now, just observation, happening, same stories going on. I might have a little sensation of those things that "I" used to react upon, but nothing has really anymore the power to move "me" since the indentification to this false self is dropping. This is so cool to notice! They react, they have their beliefs and habitual patterns, just happening. This has been a struggle for me for YEARS, but since the beginning of the realization of no self, there is no surface for the emotion to attach. Phiewhh.... :D
At times when tired, I might notice a sort of irritation to begin to arise but when noticing it, it just flows by and has nothing to hold on. Hard to explain but it's like just observing thoughts and emotions arising and then passing by.
There is no i at all, none as in zero. Never was. No separate entity in charge of a little piece of life, no entity as the manager, thinker, doer, feeler. No i that is making life happen. There is life flowing freely as all movement and all forms. There is being (verb) aliveness, and there are no separate alivenesses, it's all one same aliveness.
"I" have been confusing the self of I as consciousness. "I" have thought that it is MY consciousness that is dictating all "my" thoughts, emotions and doings. But consciousness is, no need for a separate self. Consciousness can evolve, self cannot. Body can evolve, self cannot. Mind can evolve, self cannot. Why? There is nothing that can be regarded as self. This would be like the fundamental piece in psychology! No self :D how many problems there are just by this false belief of a separate self?

One thing that has been creating some pondering is the concept of a Soul and a Spirit. What happens after death? Body disappears, mind disappears, thoughs and beliefs disappear. But what is it that remains? Soul? Spirit? Hob about Karma and re-birth?

The question is this: is the Soul dictating all this experience here on Earth? Is it gaining more and more experience to evolve? Is it controlling the consciousness that "my" mind and body are delved into? What about a Universal soul and/or consciousness - the Field? Energies flowing, reacting and dancing in this cosmic creation... :O

I don't know if you get what I mean but without a Soul and/or Spirit everything would be just consciousness expanding and evolving in different forms of life. So why would there be "separate" individuals with different experiences? What about God?
Or is this just the mind trying to label things, trying to somehow make sense of this experience called life? And does it even matter? What is the reason to live? To experience the life and evolve?

All "I" know is that this experience is precious and "I" would not want to be anywhere else <3

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LostNeo
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Re: Finding Neo, losing Neo

Postby LostNeo » Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:47 pm

"I" have been confusing the self of I as consciousness.
...the self OR I as...

Couldn't find a way to edit the previous post.

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LostNeo
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Re: Finding Neo, losing Neo

Postby LostNeo » Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:52 pm

Hah, this brings me to another fear that "I" have had before but that is also dropping....

The making of a MISTAKE :D
"I" made a mistake since I made a typo in typing you. How terrible! :D not.
But, previously, making mistakes has been a nightmare to "me", causing emotions of fear and not being enough.
Now, that too is falling and drifting away, slowly but for sure. Now making mistakes are the things that teach "us", the things that can be learned from. And when dropping the belief for a separate me, peeling of the layers and belief patterns, there seems to be really no fear for making a mistake. Since there is no-one to be blamed! Mistakes happen, they are part of life. No me needed in making those.

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Re: Finding Neo, losing Neo

Postby Ilona » Tue Jul 25, 2017 3:21 pm

Great. Now tell me what shows up, when you ask this question

Is there i?

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LostNeo
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Re: Finding Neo, losing Neo

Postby LostNeo » Tue Jul 25, 2017 4:23 pm

Great. Now tell me what shows up, when you ask this question

Is there i?
When I asked this question in the mind, there was just blank. No thoughts, nothing. Then I asked again, nothing.
Now just warm feeling in the heart and throat, Love is all that is felt. Cannot find any I to play with. Just energy ❤️
Quite amazing. Haven't asked this question yet, waited for this moment.

Can it be like this? Is it this? Just this, as "they say".

Just love ❤️

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LostNeo
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Re: Finding Neo, losing Neo

Postby LostNeo » Tue Jul 25, 2017 4:38 pm

All that is found is the character that has been built through the years, some thoughts coming and going, sensations in the body, eriting happening now, walking happening now etc.

"I" cannot find any I or self when looking.
A sort of feeling of emptiness. Does anything matter anymore what "I" do? But then there is joy for life, a strong urge to live, to develop this character more and to create new things and experiences, provide information to people, heal people and do on. It's all still there even without the I. All fiction!

"I" realized (hard to use language with the nouns now) thah "I" have been trying to avoid any egoism and being afraid that "my ego" would take the charge of "me" but now all this doesnät anymore make any difference!

"I" will still do the things "I" love because "I" can, but there is no doer, no one actually doing anything, just movement and energy flowing in different forms.

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Ilona
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Re: Finding Neo, losing Neo

Postby Ilona » Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:12 pm

Oh yes! That's how simple it is. Looking and seeing that there is no answer, just silence and seeing that this is the answer! Bam.

Joy and love felt is what is left. :)

How does it feel to see that there is no doer but everything keeps flowing freely?

Sending love

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LostNeo
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Re: Finding Neo, losing Neo

Postby LostNeo » Tue Jul 25, 2017 8:08 pm

Oh yes! That's how simple it is. Looking and seeing that there is no answer, just silence and seeing that this is the answer! Bam.

Joy and love felt is what is left. :)

How does it feel to see that there is no doer but everything keeps flowing freely?

Sending love
Yes ❤️

It feels at the same time different but also nothing has changed. Forcing and suffering has diminished. But to answer to your question straightforward, doesn't feel anything special, just warm and gentle. Again while writing this just so soft and warm feeling inside my chest, in the heart.

Thank you for keeping this so simple! Thank you for helping people to look and see that there is just life flowing withtout forcing it, no doer.🙏

Lots of love to you ❤️

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Re: Finding Neo, losing Neo

Postby Ilona » Wed Jul 26, 2017 1:40 pm

Hi neo, how is it going?
How's life looking today?
Is anything incomplete?
Is search still on?

Let's see where you are and we take it from there.
Sending love

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LostNeo
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Re: Finding Neo, losing Neo

Postby LostNeo » Wed Jul 26, 2017 3:14 pm

Hi neo, how is it going?
How's life looking today?
Is anything incomplete?
Is search still on?

Let's see where you are and we take it from there.
Sending love
Hello Ilona :)

Nothing special today, no angels singing or anything like that, the usual. Normal summer holiday routines and being.
Last night had (again) a powerful dream where I completely revealed and busted the meditation school or sect I was in. I literally kicked our teachers ass and arrested him and his helpers. There was this amazing courage, nothing could hurt me. I asked why? The answer came, because there is no me! Hah 😅

So apparently there is this subconscious unfolding of old patterns, structures and beliefs in my dreams. Every night something different.

Life just is, as it was yesterday. No time really for "me", it also seems that the concept of time has lost its meaning. It's just this and just now 😳

Today a little bit more irritation, a little heavier energies than a few days back; also our daughter has been quite irritated. But there is no me involved in this, just irritation and release. Thoughts coming and going.

Can't say that there is any search for anything, just life unfolding.


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