who else is ready to look?

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Ilona
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who else is ready to look?

Postby Ilona » Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:13 pm

i will help if you are ready :)
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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drfunk
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Re: who else is ready to look?

Postby drfunk » Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:39 am

Hi Ilona,
I am in Tiruvannamalai, India at the moment. This place has been the center of my affliction for quite some time and it is strange that I am visiting here once again, and even stranger that I am asking for help of this sort via computer. As I have been at this for some time (the computer site) and no response it makes me wonder- Is there anyone there? Or maybe my sense of humor won't die entirely. Anyway, I am quite ready for some help as I have done millions, yes millions of mantras, self enquiry, ashrams and gurus of all sorts. but there has been no fundamental change so yes, i would love some help
more than Sincerely,
drfunk

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Ilona
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Re: who else is ready to look?

Postby Ilona » Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:58 am

Hello drfunk..
Thank you for stepping in.
It works like this: I ask questions, you find answers. Not from books or second hand experience, but by looking and thinking for yourself. And if you answer with total honesty it will be easy.

We start from expectation. Write a whole list and mention everything what you expect from this engagement. How do you imagine the awakening will make you feel, what it should be like, what you want it to be like. All that.

Let's see what you've got.
Sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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drfunk
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Re: who else is ready to look?

Postby drfunk » Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:06 pm

Yes, thank you for responding Ilona. I have been at this and quite sincere for 40 years. Honestly, I have no significant expectations of what this will be like as I have have no particular shape for the 'Truth' to fit into either as I don't really care what it turns out to be. There is just a burning need to understand something even if it is as simple as 'I' don't exist. I have absolutely no idea how it will make me feel, and on that question I don't even care. What should it be like? I distrust almost everything at this point- so what people have passed on about enlightenment
/ awakening and liberation is such a cacaphony of disinformation I'd prefer not to expect anything in particular. I have spent 40 years doing this, and not as a hobby. I have been really sincere. Perhaps I am a very slow learner. But I have been paying close attention the whole way. The problem seems to be for the mind only. This 'i-fellow'. I don't expect to even get rid of him as I can see clearly that all thoughts including this I thought is imagination. When I ask myself who am I? there is never an answer in the mind as there is no answer there. I am left with feeling consciousness that seems to be the best I can do. Ball is in your court. Please feel free to whack away at this.
Thanks, and the Love is returned,
drfunk

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Ilona
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Re: who else is ready to look?

Postby Ilona » Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:08 pm

Dear drfunk,
Catch the ball, hehe.

It sounds rather strange that you have no expectations considering 40 years of search. You either arrived at the point where nothing matters anymore and all you want is truth or you are in denial. We shall see.

Being a slow or fast learner has nothing to do with seeing things as they are. This is not gonna teach you anything and you are not required to understand truth. It's very simple. You either see it or you don't.

Who am I question itself says that there is a who. There isn't. So no surprise that the answer to this question has been blank. It's like you see that there is no answer but have not thought that the question is not the right question to ask.

So let's start fresh:
Tell me exactly what feelings, where in the body, what thoughts come up when you ask this question:

There is no separate entity behind word 'me', there is no self at all in reality, none as in zero, is it true?
Watch closely what arises and report right after.

Sending ball back to your court.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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drfunk
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Re: who else is ready to look?

Postby drfunk » Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:50 pm

Ilona, I just sent a detailed reply- put it first in save before submit but can't find where that is to send you now. also I sent messages to 2 other people. Should I dialogue with you only and if they send responses what would you like me to do?
drfunk

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Ilona
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Re: who else is ready to look?

Postby Ilona » Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:50 pm

Once you saved the message it went into draft. Press post reply button again and you will see now button 'load' next to save. Just press that and you message will appear.
Regarding other people that you replied, I sent you a message, you will find it in your messages.

Looking forwar to you long and detailed post.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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drfunk
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Re: who else is ready to look?

Postby drfunk » Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:04 pm

Hi Ilona, I went to control panel but there was no saved message from my reply that I edited then saved so it looks like I will have to re-write.Also saw you deleted my other 2 requests which is just fine. very happy to work with you.Yes, very strange 40 years, quite sincere. could not find any expectations except one which I am hoping you can clear up for me. In Feb 1972 I was a 2cd year medical student and took some LSD and found myself walking in New York City where I was going to school. I got entranced by a photo of a man's face in a store window. I had to go in and I asked a little Indian man sitting on the floor eating with some westerners who the man in the photo was and what goes on in this place. He said it was their guru Ramana Maharshi and that they were friends and they ate (that's what they were doing), so I went back almost every night for more than a year. I noticed from the first time there and every time I was there that I had a peculiar sensation in my chest which I later learned Maharshi called the Atma Sphurana (radiance or effulgence of the Self, or sometimes he called it "I,I...Consiousness", meaning no beginning or end as in the ego thought called I. I also noticed that I could seem to move the experience from the Heart area to the base of the spine and that yoga people then call this same experience kundalini shakti. Once in meditation I experienced this energy go up my spine very suddenly with a loud sound that became thundering and then I left the body and the world there was no one else but just awareness and a sense of alive Peace. this was quite beyond time and space and was entirely real. Somehow the body, world and mind all re-appeared and that was just a memory. For another 30 years I have tried but that experience has not recurred. So now I would even like to let go of experiences, but I need you to know or see if they are coloring my mind. So- no I could never find anyone there who answered to the question of Who am I? so I tried all the variations as in Where is this I? etc. Those questions actually served to shut up my mind from any previous thought so it seemed like the purpose of it was to just stop the thought process. On the other hand the experience with the mind quiet is just being conscious like a blank slate but quite an alive slate, or of some experience of the Atma Sphurana (that vibration again). I forgot to mention when I had that Samadhi type experience that that vibration entirely left as well as the sound when I was beyond time and objects. So I have to say that this Atma sphurana must be some kind of an experience as it is the same awareness that is there before, during and after it. Can't find a personal me in all of this and see how the mind is daily writing a script based on memories all tied to a fellow named I who seems quite familiar but is clearly
100% imagination. As for no self, certainly not in the mind, but there is some sense of identity in awareness. I don't mind if this is wrong too. much more interested in what the Truth really is. Why is it that Ifeel this Atma Sphurana experience around many so-called enlightened people but it is Not my moment to moment experience.Only awareness is. So Ilona, hope I have been clear with what I have said and that you can see the error that I must be making. very much looking forward to your reply.
drfunk

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Ilona
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Re: who else is ready to look?

Postby Ilona » Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:30 pm

Yes, I see your expectation- you want that state back..
Seeing the true nature of illusion is not about a state. States come and go. You may have some new amazing experience, you may not.

Seeing truth is one step and nothing changes. Everything already is the way it is. So don't expect that sufdeenly everything will change.

Let's say you are a kid and believe in Santa. Then a friend tells you- look, it's not Santa that brings you presents, it's your parent! Perhaps you resist a bit or look with curiosity, but once you see the truth of it, you can never believe that Santa was real.
Does anything super amazing happens to the kid? - no, it's only drop of belief.
So here too, we are not looking how to get in one state or another. We are only looking at what is.

Are you ready to take fresh look? Are you ready to leave the memory behind and take a honest look at reality?
If so, we can proceed further...


Much love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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drfunk
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Re: who else is ready to look?

Postby drfunk » Fri Feb 24, 2012 5:00 am

Absolutley, Yes! more than happy yo move on and let go of that experience, Would also like you to comment on what I am describing that is called Atma sphurana, since it is not my constant experience only awareness is, I am suspecting this could be a very, very subtle experience. and although it is always the same since it is visible in awareness and is not always apparent this may be an experience too rather than the "supreme being" which Ramana indicates that it is,
I realize that I am not looking for a state but that which must be here all the time so no problem in letting go of experiences no matter how great they appear to be. If they come and they go can't be the eternal thing itself. I have also found that the Indians are prone to exaggeration and distortions in expressing this. When they describe the Real as Sat Chit Ananda (BeingRealityConsciousness of the nature of bliss) they make people think that liberation is a state of perpetual ecstacy. I know that ecstacy is is only an emotional state or experience and would be harmful to the body if prolonged. probably they mean peace or happiness of some degree but attract people with the word bliss- which I find to be rather neutral in actuality. so lets leave the memories behind. i do not mind giving up belief in Santa.In fact I am interested in the whole belief structure and do not care what gets squashed in this process. Lets proceed. but I am glad I told you what I did so that you can detect if my mind is still being colored by any of this stuff.

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drfunk
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Re: who else is ready to look?

Postby drfunk » Fri Feb 24, 2012 5:13 am

Oh, also one more thing about Atma sphurana which has been my prediliction. Ramana says it is that which underlies the the states of waking dream and deep sleep. He says it is the most easy to discover in between the state of deep sleep and waking which is also my experience and it seems that the experience of it can be prolonged by meditating on it as soon as I wake from deep sleep.Please feel free to knock the crap out of my apparent beliefs at this point they have not done me any good in 40 years of doing this so called sadhana.So lets go. I apologize for dragging Ramana in to this as I know we are here to discuss direct experience only. But that particular belief system has been ingrained here for some time and I want to expose it. If there is any Truth in it then good and if not then it will have to go the way of anything else involved with imagination. So let us be ruthless here!
Much love,
drfunk

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Ilona
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Re: who else is ready to look?

Postby Ilona » Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:59 am

:)
Let's move on then.

Where do thoughts come from?
Look at the next thoughts, catch it as it comes, see where it comes FROM.
Is there any control over thoughts?
Can thoughts be stopped at will?
Can you know what the next thought will be?

Write what you see.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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drfunk
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Re: who else is ready to look?

Postby drfunk » Fri Feb 24, 2012 12:02 pm

My mind is pretty quiet there is just silent consciousness then a thought seems to bubble up from it or on it, then the mind is quiet again just silent consciousness is there. I do not notice any control over thoughts, anything could suddenly pop up as a thought. I don't seem to be able to stop thoughts as so-called will power is also in the mind. the mind can't stop itself. I have noticed that the "Who am I?" type questions can seem to stop the thought process for sometime even if this is brought up in mid thought. I have no idea what the next thought will be until it shows up.

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Ilona
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Re: who else is ready to look?

Postby Ilona » Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:44 pm

Good..
So it be said that thoughts apear and dissapear by themselves?

Lets look at the mind.
What we call mind is a flow of thoughts, one after another. There is no mind, but word/ label mind points to this thinking process which is just flow of thoughts.
Thoughts apear as words, labels. And they are never a real thing, but pointers. Like a word car- it points to this thing that can be used for transportation.

Look around the room slowly stopping attention on different objects- notice how there is automatic labelling of things, some labels just name things, others point to memories, ideas.

Notice the difference between pointers that point to real things and imaginary things.

Just play with it for a while. Tell me, can imaginary stuff be sensed, observed right now. For example, is there a unicorn in you room? How do you know.

Write what comes up.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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drfunk
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Re: who else is ready to look?

Postby drfunk » Sat Feb 25, 2012 6:05 am

Yes, very interesting. A flow of thoughts labeling stuff. Some for very concrete utilitarian objects, and others connected to ideas and stories come up based on memories. I can't sense imaginary stuff- don't notice any unicorn(s) in the room but if one appears in the mind as a thought form it could only be sensed in that way, if indeed that was even considered to be sensing at all.


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