A guide to no self

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hwheart69
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A guide to no self

Postby hwheart69 » Tue Nov 08, 2016 3:36 am

What brings you to Liberation Unleashed?:
I'm a Ken Wilber devotee and this fits with his guidance. For some reason this body/mind has been blessed/cursed with the desire to seek God which has changed into finding God. To continue uncovering, discovering the God that I am, that is already here, that is in everyone and everything.

What are you looking for? What do you expect from this?:
My mission statement is " To continue to die to the separate self sense, embody emptiness and embrace all form." I expect that LU will help this body/mind continue to express life in this manner. To keep practicing, remembering that life is all there is. To remove the sense that there is separation. A bigger life of Love, Compassion, Service.

What is your background in terms of seeking and inquiry?:
I began the search with a large group training in 1996 because of a divorce. I've done the Mankind Project workshop as well and S. N. Goenka Vipassana 10 day retreat and many other workshops. My wife and I currently are practicing direct awakening meditations through Craig Hamilton.

How ready are you to question your beliefs about who you are and see the truth no matter what?: 9

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Olenko
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Re: A guide to no self

Postby Olenko » Thu Nov 10, 2016 10:19 pm

Hi hwheart69,

I can have a chat with you if that's ok.

You have probably read from the front pages what it is that we do here, but I want to explain a bit more about it in my own words. Here in "The gate" -forum section, we help people to see through the illusion of separate self. This seeing causes what is called "awakening" (among many other names), which is a specific shift in perception / experiencing. This is in many ways only the beginning, or "entering the stream" to liberation.

For me it seems from your writings, that you may have already gone through this shift. We have believed to be separate for a very long time, causing the sensations of "being separate" to arise in countless circumstances. This "continuing to die to the separate self sense" or "embodying emptiness and embracing all form" is something that goes on for a good good time after awakening. It's an ongoing process in "my" experience as it is in the experience of most (if not all) guides here. After awakening has been confirmed, there are forum sections accessible for "deeper looking", to continue the process.

Have you had any sort of experience/realization that could mark this shift having happened?
How would you define who you are? What is "I"?

Regards,
Olenko

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hwheart69
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Re: A guide to no self

Postby hwheart69 » Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:07 pm

Hi Olenko. Have I had a shift of no separate self, who am I, what is I? I think so. Who is this I that is thinking? Any way, when I look for a self I only see objects. So I know any object is not who I am, yet there is a sense of a separate self as I type this reply. Yet on the other hand is there a self or is there just typing? Yet I can see all of this arising out of emptiness. It seems that the SEEING, the witnessing, is who and what I am. It seems to go back and forth. A sense of a self and then when the remembering happens, just the seeing. So I'm not sure who or what I am. Maybe I'm both. Maybe I'm am that, what ever that means. Maybe I am a separate self and I'm the emptiness that the self arises from. Which now a question is present of is there a distinction between separate self, self and no self? Fun stuff.
Many Blessings
Homer

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Olenko
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Re: A guide to no self

Postby Olenko » Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:09 am

Hi Homer,
So I know any object is not who I am, yet there is a sense of a separate self as I type this reply.
What makes up this sense? For example this sense of "I'm typing".
It seems that the SEEING, the witnessing, is who and what I am. It seems to go back and forth. A sense of a self and then when the remembering happens, just the seeing. So I'm not sure who or what I am. Maybe I'm both.
Can you be a sense?
Maybe I am a separate self and I'm the emptiness that the self arises from. Which now a question is present of is there a distinction between separate self, self and no self? Fun stuff.
Good that it's fun :) What is this separate self?

Best regards,
Olenko

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hwheart69
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Re: A guide to no self

Postby hwheart69 » Thu Nov 17, 2016 8:37 pm

Hi Olenko
A shift occurred this morning. Of course there is no self. No one is here and nothing is happening. There is just the typing. It is all arising out of the emptiness that I am. The true I, the I of Spirit. I am the all of it, and the none of it. I am life which is empty and meaningless and whole and complete. There is such a gratitude present. A peace and love, to use these awkward words. Not much else to be said. Many Blessings to you Olenko.

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Olenko
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Re: A guide to no self

Postby Olenko » Fri Nov 18, 2016 1:20 am

Sounds good. Would you say this is all clear to you? Or is there something you'd want to explore further? (that's what we are here for + I have time).

We have a custom to represent 6 final questions when it seems that the illusion of self has been seen through. Would like me to ask these questions at this point? The answers to these questions help us to determine whether to "promote" you on this forum, so you can participate in the groups for deeper investigation into emptiness or start as a guide yourself - if you'd like that. We are a bit short on guides at the moment ;)

What does your heart tell you at this moment?

Regards,
Olenko.

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hwheart69
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Re: A guide to no self

Postby hwheart69 » Sat Nov 19, 2016 12:21 am

Hi Olenko. I would say that this is clear to me for now. Sure, send me the questions. I'm sure they will be challenging and fun.

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Olenko
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Re: A guide to no self

Postby Olenko » Sun Nov 20, 2016 11:18 pm

Ok. Here we go:

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there
ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from
your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue?
Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How
does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

---

Take your time with these. Answering all at once is not required either. :)

Regards,
Olenko

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Olenko
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Re: A guide to no self

Postby Olenko » Sun Dec 04, 2016 1:04 pm

How is it going Homer? Have you thought about these questions?

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hwheart69
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Re: A guide to no self

Postby hwheart69 » Sun Dec 04, 2016 5:40 pm

Hi Olenko. I sure have. They threw me back into the investigative mode. I hope to send out my answers some time this week. Thanks for checking up on me.

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hwheart69
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Re: A guide to no self

Postby hwheart69 » Thu Dec 08, 2016 7:30 pm

Hi Olenko. Here are my answers. It was a fun and frustrating process, such is life.

1. Is there a separate entity self, me, I? No. There is no separation period. The I, me, self are just labels to signify the body-mind complex.


2. What is the illusion of the separate self? It starts when forgetting the whole happens. When one get so focused on a thing to the exclusion of other things. When the body-mind gets so involved and identified with a particular way of being and doing. When seeing the seeing is not here. The self, me, I makes choices, controls things, creates problems. It controls people to get what it wants. It gets lost in thought and what it is doing and goes crazy when it doesn’t get what it wants. It seeks pleasure and avoids pain. It tells lies and likes to dominate others and events and tries to change things it cannot change and feels quite angry when its control doesn’t work. It feels great when it gets its way. Seeking and searching for the ideal moment and way of being that it can hang its hat on. The self is about content and its manipulation. It is the forgetting the reality of no separation. Duality has set in, me vs. other.

3. How does this feel? There is a peace, lightness, a purity of presence. Like a continuous AH HA. There seems to be this internal smile. These feelings were there before, but now there is more depth, more present, more clarity. A bigger, more expansive feeling. A feeling of dissolving. A feeling of oneness, a feeling of love. Compassion is there for I am you. There is no I or you.

4. What was the last bit? I woke up around 2:30 am and started to meditate. Seeing there is only sensation of bed/body contact, thoughts arising and fading. Breathing happening. Then noticing that sensation, thought, breathing are just labels. Then it hit as it is hitting now, there is just this. The mind labels it typing. Yet it is just this. Purity beyond words and labels. Noticing that the mind is fighting this purity, this presence. Just the mind and typing and reading and all arising out of the emptiness that is always already here.

5. Describe intention, choice, free will. How does it work and how do things get done and what am I responsible for? Intention, choice, free will, responsibility are all creations of the mind and in the world of form. They help these body-minds function, keep them safe and help them grow and evolve physically and spiritually. These forms can also create unsafe actions, stuckness and disconnection. From the awakened space, one just sees what arises out of emptiness without story or labels. Therefore, there is no intention, no choice, no control, and no responsibility since there is no self. Things get done because the energy of Life creates things. So one can say God is the one that sets intentions, chooses, controls and is responsible. And then again these words are just a story. It is just this and nothing more.

6. When the mind relaxes, one can see and experience reality. No filters and in that space nothing is happening, there is no one present and nowhere to go. It is just seeing life being and doing life. A process and flow of energy. Just This. Everything is included in the emptiness. Form and formless are one. Everything/Nothing. The I that is God. It seems so amazing yet so ordinary. I do seem to have a sense of humility and humor about all of this. Interesting that these words are quite similar. Is the ultimate humility humorous? Such a divine magical mystery this is. Ever present and changeless yet always deepening. And of course gratitude to the Great One for this and this and this. And of course as stated before, this is just a story and it just is this.

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Olenko
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Re: A guide to no self

Postby Olenko » Sun Dec 11, 2016 6:14 pm

Hi Homer,

It was great reading your answers! And I remember how frustrating it was, -yet so rewarding to put this understanding into ones own words. :)

At this point, I have no more questions for you. I will let a few fellow guides to have a look at our conversation, they might have more questions. So let's wait.

Was a pleasure having this conversation with you!

Best regards,
Olenko

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Olenko
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Re: A guide to no self

Postby Olenko » Mon Dec 12, 2016 5:41 pm

Hi,

The other guides had no further questions. This thread will soon be going to the archives. You will receive an e-mail from one of the LU administrators, inviting you to the "after the gate" community. So remember to check your messages!

And again, was a pleasure to have this conversation with you. :)
You can also send me a PM if you have anything to ask.

Best regards,
Olenko

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hwheart69
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Re: A guide to no self

Postby hwheart69 » Mon Dec 12, 2016 8:11 pm

Hi Olenko
Thank you for your time and passion. You have been a great guide in helping this body-mind evolve.
Many Blessings
Homer


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