Seeking myself blind and miserable

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Jchristensen
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Seeking myself blind and miserable

Postby Jchristensen » Thu Oct 13, 2016 2:43 am

What brings you to Liberation Unleashed?
I am 47 years old. Have been seeking for 30 years, maybe even from ever since infancy. Once I lost my self for several months and saw the world with fresh eyes, but the pull of personality, mainly a feeling of unwantedness... spinning off into defensiveness and pride + an unhealthy emotional dependency on partners, has since (and also before) led to personality based conflicts. I have many good sides too :-) and really only want the very, very best for all whom I l love.

What are you looking for? What do you expect from this?
I wish to be able to appriciate life and esspecially relationship with spouses for WHAT IT IS. I have a lurking tendency towards not-being-satified which tends to end up expressing itself as critisism of my partners. It has to do with seeking, which (I think) has to do with insecurity. This has ruined the three relationships I have had the last 30 years, even though really am a nice guy. I hope that getting the FEEL of the me without its casing will make room for building relationships from a place of deepening trust, love and satisfaction and make me more at ease and hense less reactive to life. Possibly it also has to do with making peace with myself.

What is your background in terms of seeking and inquiry?
Have done Zen style being formally (short time) and informally for 15 years. Othernspirotual practices as well. Have been introspective all my life. As written before, once "got it" by just being. As if God (or someone of that kind. :-) used my eyes and gave me a whole new outlook on life. Never forgotten, but not very useful, now that my personality once again runs my life. Many goodmdays and times, but fundamentally exhausted and sick and tired of my "me" seeming to spoil my good efforts... (sometimes it seems as if on purpose ;-(.

"What is this seeking" I think I read in one of the interview the pdf book on your website. Or why this seeking? The seeking seems to run my life, when Inthink about it. I want to stop seeking! and just enjoy life! because I'm sure this will make me (even) easier to partner up with.

How ready are you to question your beliefs about who you are and see the truth no matter what? 11

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s-p-a-c-e
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Re: Seeking myself blind and miserable

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Sat Oct 15, 2016 1:39 am

Hello and thank you for your honest introduction.

Welcome to Liberation Unleashed!

I'm a guide and we can make a start, but bear in mind, this approach is not a solution to your problems at all.

If you're happy to continue on that basis, let me know.

With best wishes,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne
https://johnchristophercoaching.wordpress.com/

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Jchristensen
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Re: Seeking myself blind and miserable

Postby Jchristensen » Mon Oct 17, 2016 9:06 am

Hi John,

Nice to meet you. Thank you for your offer of guiding me.

I would very muh like to continue :o).

My very best regards.

Juri

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s-p-a-c-e
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Re: Seeking myself blind and miserable

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Mon Oct 17, 2016 8:08 pm

Hey Juri,
Hi John,

Nice to meet you. Thank you for your offer of guiding me.

I would very muh like to continue :o).

My very best regards.

Juri
Great. We may as well go straight for it. :)

Bring to mind the Juri that is not-being-satisfied.
Poor Juri.

Where does Juri exist?

Many thanks,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne
https://johnchristophercoaching.wordpress.com/

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Jchristensen
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Re: Seeking myself blind and miserable

Postby Jchristensen » Tue Oct 18, 2016 6:14 am

Hi John.

Thank you.

Juri exists in the mind.

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s-p-a-c-e
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Re: Seeking myself blind and miserable

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Tue Oct 18, 2016 10:41 am

Hi John.

Thank you.

Juri exists in the mind.
And where does the mind exist?

Thanks,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne
https://johnchristophercoaching.wordpress.com/

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Jchristensen
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Re: Seeking myself blind and miserable

Postby Jchristensen » Tue Oct 18, 2016 8:35 pm

Hi John,

I guess Mind exists in imagination. A mirage.

Certainly doesn't feel tangible, or visible.

Thanks.

Juri

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Re: Seeking myself blind and miserable

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Wed Oct 19, 2016 10:37 am

I guess Mind exists in imagination. A mirage.

Certainly doesn't feel tangible, or visible.
Let's not guess, but look.

Can you find single piece of mind?

Look carefully.

Thanks,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne
https://johnchristophercoaching.wordpress.com/

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Jchristensen
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Re: Seeking myself blind and miserable

Postby Jchristensen » Wed Oct 19, 2016 3:12 pm

Hi John,

Thanks for helping.

When I look carefully I see people, furniture, a window, the weather.

Mind I can't see. In the same way as I can't see things behind me. Different though as Mind isn't to be seen no matter where I look, no matter how I sense.

Sensing it, it's like Mind is a completely fantasy; something that I believed in, but actualley is just a contruct that is neither important or unimportant. I feel relief.

Regards, Juri.

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Re: Seeking myself blind and miserable

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Wed Oct 19, 2016 4:11 pm

When I look carefully I see people, furniture, a window, the weather.

Mind I can't see. In the same way as I can't see things behind me. Different though as Mind isn't to be seen no matter where I look, no matter how I sense.

Sensing it, it's like Mind is a completely fantasy; something that I believed in, but actualley is just a contruct that is neither important or unimportant. I feel relief.
As a side note on this approach, looking/sensing is the go to method. If we 'go looking' for something believed to have existence like 'mind' or 'me', and we can't find it, that doesn't mean its not there. :) Only that, were it there, its not to be found by looking. :D

Constructs are often useful like 'town borders', 'tea time' and the 'off-side rule' - so we make the distinction (that's all) between ideas (such as these) and sensed stuff (for want of a phrase).

Ok, when the "got it" thing happened, what did you see that Juri/me/I/myself pointed to?

Write as much as you can.

Many thanks,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne
https://johnchristophercoaching.wordpress.com/

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Jchristensen
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Re: Seeking myself blind and miserable

Postby Jchristensen » Wed Oct 19, 2016 5:22 pm

Hi John,

Thank you. I'll "just" respond to your question, but knon that I really appriciate all the other points you make.

"What did Juri/I/me see me pointed to?

I'm not sure if I understand the question, but to explain the experience here goes:

Doing meditation in garden, using method of just being, watching the hedge moving. Suddenly I "fell through" a very small hole in front of me, just a "fall into" of 1 millisecond and millimeter. The fall was the falling away of 1) Enormous weights off my shoulder, as if 3 heavy military coats were pulled off. At the same time, Juri was not - at all - the one seeingnout though my eyes. It felt as if all-present consiousness was lookijgnout of ny eyes, and looking at itself.

As the days went by the most memorable feeling was, thatbthe seeking was completely gone. I remember writting "Home, home at last. Where have I been?".

Driving the car, laughing at the competence of the body/mind Juri, that he could drive the car without my involment.

Walking in the forrest was walking in me.

The end of seeking, in that periode which laste some months, I remeber as most joyfull.

I also remeber, and have been told, thatbI was "far out" and speaking to people in a "Why don't you see this?" and "You'll never see this, if you try to understand..." which ofcource pissed people off, mainly because of me, and also because of their issues/self.

It is my belief, taht all my own pride/personlity/self pulled my back though the hole - and in many ways this led to me working on my personlity, which is fine and needed... but I would rather befrien my persnolity so much that it drops away, than polish it forever.

Hmm. Can you use this?

Regards, Juri.

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Re: Seeking myself blind and miserable

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Thu Oct 20, 2016 12:45 am

Hey Juri,

Thank you for sharing what happened. You might call this a shift of awareness, and yes, it does completely blow any sense of self out the water. :D As such, you have clear knowledge that this experience we call 'self' is pure habit, made-up. You know that. I know you know. :)

So, here we are with this self game playing, and that is fine.

In many ways it is hugely valuable to observe close-up those elements of experience that we agree to call 'me'.
You know its bollocks, but go along with it.

Seems like you're quite comfortable as 'me'. So what's the problem? :)

Many thanks,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne
https://johnchristophercoaching.wordpress.com/

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Jchristensen
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Re: Seeking myself blind and miserable

Postby Jchristensen » Thu Oct 20, 2016 11:23 am

Hi John.

Thank you for spending so time with me. I appreciate this som much.

You ask: "Seems like you're quite comfortable as 'me'. So what's the problem? :)".

I spend many, many years seaching for my self via meditation and spiritual practices.

- Out of this have come many good qualities that I still cherish, e.g. an openness to the wonders of stillness and unnecessity of having to have an opinion or reaction to all things
- But it also isolated me from my familiy and relations (my choice, due to personal drive/egoism and unawareness of importance of relationships)

Then I got divorced, and in that process I used therapy and psychologists.

- Of this many have come usefull insights on conscious and subconscious elements of my personality.
- Hence I am very more aware of my actions and reactions, and perhaps even more aware than the averge Joe.
- Due to my openness to the idea and experience of that "I" is not something to protect or build up... it takes much to make me reactive and projective.

But, still I have a feeling, that I would be better off, if I could live (more) free of Me.

- During our writings I have thought about, that all this seeking (also for a Non-personal outlook on the world), and my more everyday tendency to be (somewhat) critical and always in improvement-mode, also of my self) is driven by my personality, and is so much on autopilot that I havn't even had this thought before.
- I sence (or believe?) that this seeking is keeping me from beeing authentically happy with what just is - right now.

Why do I want to be free of Me?
- Hmm. Something in me doesn't. I think fear of losing Me but also tiredness of this many-year project of casting off the Me are the reasons.
- I belive/hope, though, that if I combine the recent years work on/with my personality and awareness of reactional patterns with a more perment Non-personal outlook... that I could be more a source of joy- to myself and others.

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Re: Seeking myself blind and miserable

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Thu Oct 20, 2016 11:39 am

Hi Juri,

Thanks very much for that!

"I spend many, many years seaching for my self via meditation and spiritual practices"

I take it you're referring to, say - a true self, a real self - as opposed to the social persona?

"But, still I have a feeling, that I would be better off, if I could live (more) free of Me."

Indeed. It's a lot more fun! :D

"- During our writings I have thought about, that all this seeking (also for a Non-personal outlook on the world), and my more everyday tendency to be (somewhat) critical and always in improvement-mode, also of my self) is driven by my personality, and is so much on autopilot that I havn't even had this thought before."

Good to see!

"- Hmm. Something in me doesn't. I think fear of losing Me but also tiredness of this many-year project of casting off the Me are the reasons."

Yes, fear of losing me is very common, though based on a particular perception of me. If we see that there is no real entity 'me' to lose, then this shifts the game somewhat. That said, it can - for some - be a bit of shock, to see that the one they have seen themselves to be all these years, the one with the dreams, challenges, achievements, failings, who likes his coffee just so...'he','me' is a beautiful and, you have to admit, impressive figment of conditioning. :)

"- I belive/hope, though, that if I combine the recent years work on/with my personality and awareness of reactional patterns with a more perment Non-personal outlook... that I could be more a source of joy- to myself and others."

Well, none of this work on skills and capacities is wasted - at all.

Feel free to share if anything comes up. I'll look to post later this evening.

Best wishes,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne
https://johnchristophercoaching.wordpress.com/

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Jchristensen
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Re: Seeking myself blind and miserable

Postby Jchristensen » Thu Oct 20, 2016 12:38 pm

Hi John,

Please take all the time you need to reply my postings. I understand the benefits of keeping the steam up, but I wouldn't want to stress anyone (but Me :o).

Yes, the Me perspective I would like to return to is the Non/All personal. It has actually been a drive all my life: Sensing that there is "something other" that is (also) real, behind the reality that we normally take for "normal". If this is a "positive" call to remembrance or a "negative" compensating for my persona not feeling wanted due to experiences and hense the building up and maintaing the seeking/improving-personality... or both... I couldn't say for sure.

It stikes me as funny, though, that it's been a long time since I have given my "Me" so much attention, as we do now. I wonder if this is just another trick of the "Me" to get attention and be reinforced? On the other hand I guess one has to look and touch a "problem" in order to fix it.

In these days, writing with you, I do feel a sence of existential threat. Where it is quite easy for me to sence/relax giving up the Me in the head (I could define it as conscious consciousness) I can't seem to jump/fall out of the location/connection in the body where I feel the existential Me/consciousnes abides (the stomack pit).

A knowing/message comes to me: That it's just one step out of the Me/personal body... but (I wonder if mainly due to anxiety of losing Me?) I can't seem to active the muscles (and courage) to take the step. Like an elastic band holding Me to me/the Juri person.


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