Assistance wanted

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Tbarnes
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Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 2:35 am

Assistance wanted

Postby Tbarnes » Thu Sep 29, 2016 2:37 am

What brings you to Liberation Unleashed?:
I have been involved with Buddhism for 8 years. I have meditation experience and through insights on myown and discussion with a friend involved in liberation unleashed I decided to see what was possible through this method.

What are you looking for? What do you expect from this?":
I don't really expect anything. I'm looking for someone who can point me towards the 3 characteristics of conditioned reality. I'm looking to clarify no self in my experience to aid liberation from suffering caused by my attachments, projections. I'm looking for cutting and accurate direction.

What is your background in terms of seeking and inquiry?:
I have meditation experience. I have practised vipassana through goenka retreats. I have also experience with the djanas and anapasati. I generally am inquisitive towards reality and questioning the world around me.

How ready are you to question your beliefs about who you are and see the truth no matter what?: 9

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Tbarnes
Posts: 53
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Assistance wanted

Postby Tbarnes » Mon Oct 03, 2016 9:27 am

If any one can start guiding me in this process then I would greatly appreciate it. I feel ready and keen to start. I'm ready to be honest and forth coming in order to engage fully

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Ghata
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Re: Assistance wanted

Postby Ghata » Mon Oct 03, 2016 2:04 pm

Hi Tbarnes,

welcome to Liberation Unleashed :-).
My name is Ghata and I am happy to be your guide. Would you like me to call you Tbarnes or any other name?

For the time of our inquiry please put aside all books, videos and audios about this matter. They are not going to help you. You will now see for yourself in your own experience what is true.

I am not your teacher but your guide. I will not teach you anything. I will ask you questions and you answer them from your actual experience, not from thinking or from what you read in books. There are no right or wrong answers. Whatever is found in experience is fine. I am sure that you will be 100% honest. Answer daily or at least every other day as momentum is important. If it isn't possible send me a short note in the forum.

Do you have an ongoing meditation practice? Anapanasati and Jhana practice would be fine, noting practice would interfere with what we are looking into.

Are you okay with that?


Then here are my first question:
How do you expect the moment of seeing through the illusion of self to be like?
How will you feel after seeing through the illusion of self?
How will it change your life? What will change and what will remain the same?

I am looking forward to your answers.

Metta - Ghata
In the seen just the seen. In the heard just the heard.
(Bahiya-Sutta)

http://www.unterwegsmitbuddha.de

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Tbarnes
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Re: Assistance wanted

Postby Tbarnes » Mon Oct 03, 2016 7:53 pm

Hello
Please call me Tom.
My meditation practise is sporadic at best at the moment, with a family and another baby on way. But yes anapaests is the practise and Djana are integral to that. No noting practise.

I'm not good with the word expectation, it's kind of meaningless to expect things, however if I engage with it then I expect seeing through the illusion of self to be non conceptual, clear, neither good nor bad. Perhaps expansive?'

I may then feel grateful, relieved, free. Quiet as well perhaps, until I tried to do something.

It would change my life, as all things do moment to moment, nothing stays the same. I would hope it to liberate me from attachments that I have to my ideals and concepts and judgements to some degree. Or at least to see the nature of these things. Nothing would be the same. Life would go on

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Ghata
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Re: Assistance wanted

Postby Ghata » Tue Oct 04, 2016 7:47 am

Hi Tom,

thank you for writing about your expectations though you know that they might mean nothing.

Seeing through the illusion of self is simply that: Seeing that something you thought to be there, isn't.

A bit like when a child believes in Santa and then one day it discovers that Santa doesn't exist, that Santa is a human clothed in red with a white beard. Nothing changes, a belief simply drops.


Please notice all reactions, thoughts, body sensations, feelings, and write them down immediately, that come up when reading this sentence:

There is no I, no self, nowhere, and never has been. There is nobody who could see the nature of things, be liberated from attachments, nobody to feel relieved. There is nobody at the center of experience.

Write what feels true.
In the seen just the seen. In the heard just the heard.
(Bahiya-Sutta)

http://www.unterwegsmitbuddha.de

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Tbarnes
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Re: Assistance wanted

Postby Tbarnes » Tue Oct 04, 2016 10:01 am

There is tension when i read there is nowhere and never has been. There is all sorts of sensation, my head is somewhat quivering, fluttering. My chest area has a contraction almost, like sadness, which is a projection, but i would associate this feeling with sadness or anxiety. I agree with the statement, it unsettles me also. it is like there is something there to understand, i am trying not to analyse the statement though. i feel (emotionally) a little vacant, however this may be my morning in general as opposed to this sentence. i can feel a reaction to there is nobody at the centre of experience, i want to say i am experiencing, although i know experience is just happening, the reaction is still present. the reaction is a negative one, a pushing against.

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Ghata
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Re: Assistance wanted

Postby Ghata » Tue Oct 04, 2016 6:57 pm

Hi Tom,

I appreciate your honesty and your capability to feel the wanting to see and at the same time feeling some fear.:-)

It sounds daunting, no I? No need to be afraid. Even right now, as you are reading this lines, the I doesn't exist. There is nothing to lose that is in fact there.


See whether you can find an experiencer. I made a little video at the beach. During the video there will be some questions. Please answer them here.

Enjoy!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UN5VjIvTMS4
In the seen just the seen. In the heard just the heard.
(Bahiya-Sutta)

http://www.unterwegsmitbuddha.de

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Tbarnes
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Re: Assistance wanted

Postby Tbarnes » Tue Oct 04, 2016 7:17 pm

There is just sound; I do not feel a strong divide of outside and inside, there is just sound present, in terms of sensations they are resonating in the ear. And then washing through the body. The experience is tranquil, calming and without identity.
Beautiful beach

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Ghata
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Re: Assistance wanted

Postby Ghata » Tue Oct 04, 2016 7:28 pm

Hi Tom,

was there an experiencer experiecing the sound?
In the seen just the seen. In the heard just the heard.
(Bahiya-Sutta)

http://www.unterwegsmitbuddha.de

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Tbarnes
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Re: Assistance wanted

Postby Tbarnes » Tue Oct 04, 2016 8:29 pm

At first there was my inner monologue, I can hear a speedboat, I hear wind, I hear waves.
Then I just listened. The sound and the movement were the experience. I'm not sure if I understand completely the question. In the experience I was not caught up in any voice or analyses. Now looking back the only way I know how to describe experience is through first person narrative.

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Ghata
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Re: Assistance wanted

Postby Ghata » Tue Oct 04, 2016 8:55 pm

Hi Tom,

right, it is hard to tell in retrospective.

Important for the inquiry is to see clearly what is thoughts and what is experience with the 5 senses, seeing, hearing, touching/sensing, smelling and tasting.

Play with this:

Place a cup in front of you on the table so you can see it comfortably.

Look at it.

What can be seen?
What can not be seen?

What is added by thoughts?

Share what you find.
In the seen just the seen. In the heard just the heard.
(Bahiya-Sutta)

http://www.unterwegsmitbuddha.de

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Tbarnes
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Re: Assistance wanted

Postby Tbarnes » Wed Oct 05, 2016 10:07 am

In reference to the waves I was without thoughts and in experience through the sense doors. I understand our terms now. I can be a bit literal at times!

A cup...
I can see reflected light, pictures on the cup, shape of the cup, shadows, there is space around and inside. ( can I see this?) I'm aware of space.
I cannot see space, the predominate thought is that of the space defining the object.
It being a cup is just a
Mutually agreed linguistic thing, when thought is not present, there is light and space.
Thoughts immediately define it as just a cup, Then I start to analyse, it isn't really solid, it's function is in its emptiness.
Not trying to be philosophical.
It's what I think.
I'm not a person who is overrun with inner monologue.

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Ghata
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Re: Assistance wanted

Postby Ghata » Thu Oct 06, 2016 8:06 pm

Hi Tom,

It is a good thing that you are literal :)
It being a cup is just a
Mutually agreed linguistic thing, when thought is not present, there is light and space.
Have another look. What is the raw sense perception of seeing when looking at the cup? You can take this literal.

Is there space? Is there a cup? What is really seen, the pure sense perception. What is interpretation?

Please play with the cup again and first write down what is purely seen.

Then write down what is added by interpretation. Really separate sense perception from interpretation.

You can also play with this looking at other objects. A house, a tree, a car...

Share what you find.
In the seen just the seen. In the heard just the heard.
(Bahiya-Sutta)

http://www.unterwegsmitbuddha.de

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Tbarnes
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Re: Assistance wanted

Postby Tbarnes » Fri Oct 07, 2016 9:24 am

The raw perception there is light, absence of light, the edges of the object become less defined. There isn't a cup there is just ligh and the object isn't so separate from what is around it.
Space is interpreted.
Interpretation tries to make sense of the senses, these are labels. It's complicated to communicate as I have to use interpretation to explain myself :)
Interpretation adds little to the experience, in fact it interrupts the flow of the senses.
The senses are just interpretation (this is an interpretation!)

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Ghata
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Re: Assistance wanted

Postby Ghata » Fri Oct 07, 2016 9:46 am

Very good, Tom. :-)

Now do the same with the "I".

What are the raw sense perceptions?
What is interpretation?
In the seen just the seen. In the heard just the heard.
(Bahiya-Sutta)

http://www.unterwegsmitbuddha.de


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