Guide request

This is a read-only part of the forum. All threads where seeing happens are stored here and come from this forum, the Facebook guiding area and various LU blogs. The complete list, sorted by guide, contains all links. The archives include threads of those that came to LU already seeing as well.
User avatar
SandViking
Posts: 53
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2016 3:20 am

Guide request

Postby SandViking » Wed Aug 31, 2016 3:22 am

What brings you to Liberation Unleashed?:
Found a link in a comment on amazon.com when reading rewies from a book about nonduality. I do not remember what book the review was about, but it was a tips to somebody who did not understand the consepts about nonduality.

What are you looking for? What do you expect from this?:
I am looking for the same as everybody else who have posted here, I assume. I have no expectations though, because that will only bring misery if it doesn't go as expected ;-) That said; I do hope to get the "last push" to really get the practical knowledge.

What is your background in terms of seeking and inquiry?:
Oh, that's a loooooong story.... Started meditation at the age of 12 in martial art class, was in an accident and had an out of body experience at the age of 13, and a NDE at the age of 25. I have education as a printer and hypnotherapy (NeuroHypnotic Repatterning), spend much time reading and practising meditation, Kriya yoga, philosopy, gnostisism, chi/ki, and so on and so forth...

How ready are you to question your beliefs about who you are and see the truth no matter what?: 11

User avatar
s-p-a-c-e
Posts: 4114
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:52 pm
Contact:

Re: Guide request

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Wed Aug 31, 2016 11:25 am

Hi SandViking,

Welcome to Liberation Unleashed, and many thanks for your intro.
I've got some background in NLP, so maybe we can speak the same language. :)

Happy to explore the nature of 'me' with you.

OK?

Best wishes,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne
https://johnchristophercoaching.wordpress.com/

User avatar
SandViking
Posts: 53
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2016 3:20 am

Re: Guide request

Postby SandViking » Wed Aug 31, 2016 11:56 am

Hi s-p-a-c-e,

Thank you very much for your reply!
Cool, NHR (NeuroHypnotic repatterning) was created by Dr. Richard Bandler who you probably know is one of the cocreators of NLP. I do not use this any more, I only mentioned it because it is part of my formal education.

I have been looking into non-duality the last few years. In the beginning it did not resonate with me, the "you are an illusion" and "you are not real" seemed counter intuitive, because when I look for "Who am I" the logical answer beeing "me" comes effortless, so I stopped there. I used to say "I don't know anything, I only know that I am," but this is not true?!?

Well, to make a long story short:
I continued to look for "me" and when I ask "Who am I?" the answer is "me", then I ask "Who is this me?" Then there is silence.
So I commanded "SHOW YOURSELF, ME!" still only silence....
My logical conclusion is that "I" am this silence... this presense.... this awareness that is in the silence.
So I am nothing (awareness/presense/silence is no thing, hence nothing)...
This is what I currently believe, but since I do not live this beliefe I am not sure.
Can you help me find out please, or point me in the right direction?

Thanks for your help and I look forward to read your reply!

PS. Sorry for spelling misstakes and gramarmistakes; English is not my native language.

User avatar
s-p-a-c-e
Posts: 4114
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:52 pm
Contact:

Re: Guide request

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Wed Aug 31, 2016 12:11 pm

Thank you very much for your reply!
Cool, NHR (NeuroHypnotic repatterning) was created by Dr. Richard Bandler who you probably know is one of the cocreators of NLP. I do not use this any more, I only mentioned it because it is part of my formal education.
Cool. :)
I have been looking into non-duality the last few years. In the beginning it did not resonate with me, the "you are an illusion" and "you are not real" seemed counter intuitive, because when I look for "Who am I" the logical answer beeing "me" comes effortless, so I stopped there. I used to say "I don't know anything, I only know that I am," but this is not true?!?

Well, to make a long story short:
I continued to look for "me" and when I ask "Who am I?" the answer is "me", then I ask "Who is this me?" Then there is silence.

So I commanded "SHOW YOURSELF, ME!" still only silence....
My logical conclusion is that "I" am this silence... this presense.... this awareness that is in the silence.
[/quote

Good questions! "me" is probably the best sound for evoking the familiar feelings called "me".
It is natural to want to find a place to settle, whether in the silence, or in awareness, or wherever - to call home, as "I".

But then we can question the question: Do "I" need to BE anywhere, or nowhere?
Sit with it.
So I am nothing (awareness/presense/silence is no thing, hence nothing)...
This is what I currently believe, but since I do not live this beliefe I am not sure.
Can you help me find out please, or point me in the right direction?

Thanks for your help and I look forward to read your reply!
[/quote

We can go along, see what there is discover.
PS. Sorry for spelling misstakes and gramarmistakes; English is not my native language.
No worries. Where are you from? You happy with SandViking, or is there a first name you'd prefer?
I'm ok either way.

Best wishes,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne
https://johnchristophercoaching.wordpress.com/

User avatar
s-p-a-c-e
Posts: 4114
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:52 pm
Contact:

Re: Guide request

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Wed Aug 31, 2016 12:13 pm

Got all my quotes in a twist there. :D Let's try again...
Well, to make a long story short:
I continued to look for "me" and when I ask "Who am I?" the answer is "me", then I ask "Who is this me?" Then there is silence.
So I commanded "SHOW YOURSELF, ME!" still only silence....
My logical conclusion is that "I" am this silence... this presense.... this awareness that is in the silence.
So I am nothing (awareness/presense/silence is no thing, hence nothing)...
This is what I currently believe, but since I do not live this beliefe I am not sure.
Can you help me find out please, or point me in the right direction?
Good questions! "me" is probably the best sound for evoking the familiar feelings called "me".
It is natural to want to find a place to settle, whether in the silence, or in awareness, or wherever - to call home, as "I".

But then we can question the question: Do "I" need to BE anywhere, or nowhere?
Sit with it.

Thanks,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne
https://johnchristophercoaching.wordpress.com/

User avatar
SandViking
Posts: 53
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2016 3:20 am

Re: Guide request

Postby SandViking » Wed Aug 31, 2016 12:54 pm

Thanks for your reply John!

Sorry for being rude, I live in Norway and my real name is Svein, you can call me Andy :-)
I am 42 years and live by myself in a town called Haugesund.

You asked:
"Do "I" need to BE anywhere, or nowhere?"

Well, that's what I "get" - that I am... am'ness is beingness, right?
But since "I" feel that "I" am being formless, there would be no "anywhere" or "nowhere" to be, because either way "I" am "there".... that is; "I" am everywhere and nowhere and now-here.
To BE is not an option, it just is.

User avatar
s-p-a-c-e
Posts: 4114
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:52 pm
Contact:

Re: Guide request

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Wed Aug 31, 2016 1:09 pm

Hi Andy :)

I'm in North Wales, which nearly has all the letters of Norway in. :D
You asked:
"Do "I" need to BE anywhere, or nowhere?"

Well, that's what I "get" - that I am... am'ness is beingness, right?
But since "I" feel that "I" am being formless, there would be no "anywhere" or "nowhere" to be, because either way "I" am "there".... that is; "I" am everywhere and nowhere and now-here.
To BE is not an option, it just is.
"To BE is not an option, it just is." - Much better than Shakespeare :)

What is the experience of simply looking around?

Are the trees (for example) over there?

Where are the trees?

Many thanks,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne
https://johnchristophercoaching.wordpress.com/

User avatar
SandViking
Posts: 53
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2016 3:20 am

Re: Guide request

Postby SandViking » Wed Aug 31, 2016 1:33 pm

Cool, so you live in the Uk? That's my favorite country outside Norway!
Been there many times :-)

Are the trees (for example) over there?
Frome where I stand? No, no trees. I live on an island on the west coast of Norway and from my window I can only see houses and the ocean. A short trip in are forests and montains, so there are many trees here, I just don't see them from my current location. So yes, I can see trees when I go outside.

What is the experience of simply looking around?
I want to answer: "I see," said the blind man.... but that's not really true ;-)
The experience of looking around is... I don't know.... I open my eyes and just look... no, that's not really accurate; I just open my eyes....

In the morning, the light hurts the eyes; I do not see clearly, everything is blured and tears often come (not because I cry or anything). I blink my eyes often and fast, and after a minute or so everything is fine and I can look normally.

Where are the trees?
This is a interesting question.... The trees appear to be "out there", but they are really "in my mind".
We do not see with our eyes. The eyes are just picking up lights and reflections of lights, turn it into electromagnetic signals that travels through the visual cortex to the "sight-center" in the back of the brain. Here those electromagnetic signals are turned into pictures that we recognize.
So "I" never really see anything directly - everything "I" see is a reproduction or copies of the real thing.... everything is mental ;-)

User avatar
s-p-a-c-e
Posts: 4114
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:52 pm
Contact:

Re: Guide request

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Wed Aug 31, 2016 2:00 pm

Where are the trees?
This is a interesting question.... The trees appear to be "out there", but they are really "in my mind".
We do not see with our eyes. The eyes are just picking up lights and reflections of lights, turn it into electromagnetic signals that travels through the visual cortex to the "sight-center" in the back of the brain. Here those electromagnetic signals are turned into pictures that we recognize.
So "I" never really see anything directly - everything "I" see is a reproduction or copies of the real thing.... everything is mental ;-)
Ok, forget the trees, where are the houses? :D

Sit and look 'at' the houses.

As you mention, it can feel like 'I' am looking 'outward', a sense of direction. And yet, light is being received, coming towards. So we can relax and receive light. :)

Have some fun with that, and share anything that shows up in experience.

Takk,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne
https://johnchristophercoaching.wordpress.com/

User avatar
SandViking
Posts: 53
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2016 3:20 am

Re: Guide request

Postby SandViking » Wed Aug 31, 2016 2:18 pm

Hehe, so many things shows up :-)
The houses looks like they are "there" (pointing to a house). There is space between the houses and me.
I am here, the houses are over there. Or so it seems.....

But, that may be true from one perspective, it is not true from another perspektive.
The houses are not experienced "out there", they are seen and experienced in my awareness/consiousness...
(The Norwegian word "bevissthet" is translated into both awareness and consciousness).
So I am aware of the houses and they are in my consciousness, if I can put it that way.

Its the same that happens in a dream; I "see" trees in my dream, but I know that I did not put any physical trees into my brain this morning, so I know that the trees I see in dreams are not "out there", but "in me" - in my consciousness/awareness.

User avatar
SandViking
Posts: 53
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2016 3:20 am

Re: Guide request

Postby SandViking » Wed Aug 31, 2016 2:19 pm

Tusen takk,
Andy

User avatar
s-p-a-c-e
Posts: 4114
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:52 pm
Contact:

Re: Guide request

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Wed Aug 31, 2016 2:40 pm

Ok, let's explore some more.

Lay the right hand flat on a table, or on the knee if sitting down, and tap with the first finger after the thumb. :)
Tap away, tap, tap, tap.

At some point, the tapping will stop.

Track, as best you can, the point at which stopping occurred.

What happened to stop the tapping?

Just have a play. No right or wrong responses, just open exploring, which Norwegians are very good at. :D

Takk,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne
https://johnchristophercoaching.wordpress.com/

User avatar
SandViking
Posts: 53
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2016 3:20 am

Re: Guide request

Postby SandViking » Wed Aug 31, 2016 3:17 pm

Thanks for that, here's my exploration:

Putting my hand on the table and start tapping the indexfinger on the table, about 4 taps a second....
Starting to wonder if the Viking king did the same things when he explored the world, then I remember I am not a viking king and I am exploring reality and not the world, so my focus goes to the finger, which at this time is starting to feel uncomfortable and kind of "sore"..... tapping.....tapping.....tapping.... when will it stop?..... how will it stop?.... hm.....is it me who is doing the tapping?...... doesn't feel that way now....... I made the desision to start tapping, but I am not the tapper..... the tapping is done by the body, so it appears that tapping just happen....... so when will it stop?..... when the body gets tired?...... I can feel the muscle is pretty tired now.......but I am not tired...........the finger is tapping the table.... I am watching the finger tapping the table.... I am also aware of the urge to use the bathroom....tapping....tapping a bit faster now..... That's it, I got to go!

Track, as best you can, the point at which stopping occurred.
Not quite sure I understand the question, but I'll give it a go:
The stopping occured when I had a reason to stop, when the tapping got less important than "natures call".
It was a desision I made, based on one out of many possible ideas I had to "justify" the stop. If nature hadn't made its call I would have found another idea to "justify" the stop.

What happened to stop the tapping
Nothing, I guess... One moment I was tapping, the next moment I was in the bathroom. When I made the desission to stop tapping, I removed my awareness from tapping and turned it to getting up and into the bathroom.

Not sure if I give you the answers you want, I'm not very used to talk about these things with other people, since most of my frineds thinks nonduality is crazy.
But what I got from this "drill" was that for the first time I did not feel like a "doer"... It feels a bit like that Roling Stones song "Start me up: If you start me up I'll never stop" :D
But, no I doing the tapping. I was aware of my finger tapping, but it was not I who did the tapping...

Tusen takk
Andy

User avatar
s-p-a-c-e
Posts: 4114
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:52 pm
Contact:

Re: Guide request

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Wed Aug 31, 2016 3:37 pm

Ok, good. This time, tap away, gently, and then stop. Then start again for a while, then stop.

Check - is a thought needed to stop, a reason to justify stopping?

Can it just stop, without a thought?

Is there a sense of having control over the starting and the stopping?

If so, explore that sense of control.

Share what shows up. :)

Takk,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne
https://johnchristophercoaching.wordpress.com/

User avatar
SandViking
Posts: 53
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2016 3:20 am

Re: Guide request

Postby SandViking » Wed Aug 31, 2016 4:14 pm

Check - is a thought needed to stop, a reason to justify stopping?
No, it can stop for no particular reason.

Can it just stop, without a thought?
Yes

Is there a sense of having control over the starting and the stopping?
Yes

If so, explore that sense of control.
Before I deside to use the finger to tap the table, the finger is motionless, doing nothing. When I decide to start tapping, the finger starts tapping. As long as the finger tapping is in my awareness it is tapping, but if my focus get distracted, lets say a TVshow steals my attention and I fokus all my attention to the TV, the finger stop tapping. (just one of countless examples)
The sense of controll is also limitied to the bodys limits. If I deside to tap the finger non stop for 7 days for eksample, the finger would stop tapping at the very latest the moment I fall asleep - IF the muscles are strong enough to tap that long.
So this sens of controll is a limited sens of controll. It is also possible that the finger stops tapping by itself and needs my "will" to start tapping again - or it can start again apparently without the use of will, as in habit and such things, so full controll; no - limited sense of controll; yes.

Thanks,
Andy


Return to “ARCHIVES”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests