Ready for a guide and would be grateful for your support

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leah
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:58 pm

Ready for a guide and would be grateful for your support

Postby leah » Wed Aug 10, 2016 11:14 am

Hi there,

I'm Leah. I'm based in the UK. I first registered here in 2014 but then did nothing with the registration. Later that year I went on my first Vipassana 10-day course but nothing stuck with me from that experience. Over the last couple of days, I've been reading Gateless Gatecrashers. I feel like intellectually I can understand there is no "I" and sometimes it FEELS like the truth. But then it's gone and I'm back with the "I" "I" "I".

I feel immense frustration and really just want to SEE the Truth - full stop.

I'd be so grateful for a guide who'd be willing to do this with me.

Love,

Leah

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Xain
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Re: Ready for a guide and would be grateful for your support

Postby Xain » Wed Aug 10, 2016 12:29 pm

Hi Leah

Good to see you and welcome (back?) to LU.

I'd be happy to guide you and from your brief description, you sound like you are in an excellent place to look into things.
I am in the UK as well (Suffolk area).

Can you describe perhaps why you believe your insight is only intellectual.
I mean, do you have any ideas or beliefs on how you might know it on a deeper level?
Do you believe something will change in some way?

Best wishes
Xain ♥

leah
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:58 pm

Re: Ready for a guide and would be grateful for your support

Postby leah » Wed Aug 10, 2016 1:23 pm

Hi Iain,

Thanks for the welcome back and offer to guide me - I appreciate it. I'm up in Lancashire for now.
Can you describe perhaps why you believe your insight is only intellectual.
I mean, do you have any ideas or beliefs on how you might know it on a deeper level?
Because when I've been reading Gateless Gatecrashers, I read some of Ilona and Elena's ways of helping people out - like with the image of a school and how the school is just a label but the school itself isn't real - it's a collection of things. That makes sense to me but then when I try to do the same thing with me/I etc. it feels like I'm just trying to figure it out in my head but I don't really see it.
Do you believe something will change in some way?
The belief I have is that when I really know, that I will FEEL that I know it. Like I won't be trying to figure it out and understand it - it'll just be information that I know and it just is how it is. Like how when Ilona or Elena talk about knowing Santa's not real. I don't have to try and understand or figure that out anymore - he's just not real, I know that.

Thanks, Iain.

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Xain
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Re: Ready for a guide and would be grateful for your support

Postby Xain » Wed Aug 10, 2016 9:54 pm

Because when I've been reading Gateless Gatecrashers, I read some of Ilona and Elena's ways of helping people out - like with the image of a school and how the school is just a label but the school itself isn't real - it's a collection of things. That makes sense to me but then when I try to do the same thing with me/I etc. it feels like I'm just trying to figure it out in my head but I don't really see it.
I understand.
The illusion of 'being a separate self' is held in place by self-referencing thoughts. That's why it can be difficult to see-through.
Attempting to 'figure it out mentally' is OK up to a certain point (A point that you are at now, maybe?) but after this it is necessary to examine the thought process itself to reveal this self-referencing nature - That's where LU and this guidance comes in.
The belief I have is that when I really know, that I will FEEL that I know it. Like I won't be trying to figure it out and understand it - it'll just be information that I know and it just is how it is. Like how when Ilona or Elena talk about knowing Santa's not real. I don't have to try and understand or figure that out anymore - he's just not real, I know that.
Good - And yes, it's just like that.

My guidance will be to get you to a point where it's just 'completely obvious' to you that 'I' is an illusion (or more specifically, that there is no inherently existing separate self).

Before wading in, though, do you have any expectations? Do you have any specific beliefs about 'what's going to happen' or 'what life will be like afterwards'? Are you expecting anything to radically change or for a permanent 'state' to be achieved?
Be honest and open about what you believe about the end-goal of the guidance.

You mention you've done Vipassana - Do you have any specific religious / spiritual background or study?
Have you followed any particular non-dual teachers or read any books on the subject?

Xain ♥

leah
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:58 pm

Re: Ready for a guide and would be grateful for your support

Postby leah » Wed Aug 10, 2016 10:10 pm

Hi Xain (I totally didn't get your name right in my other messages - sorry),
Attempting to 'figure it out mentally' is OK up to a certain point (A point that you are at now, maybe?)
Yes, that's exactly where I feel I am.
do you have any expectations? Do you have any specific beliefs about 'what's going to happen' or 'what life will be like afterwards'? Are you expecting anything to radically change or for a permanent 'state' to be achieved?
Be honest and open about what you believe about the end-goal of the guidance.
Yes, I suppose I do. Even though I've read lots of stories here about it mostly being anti-climatic, not a big deal, no bells and whistles and all in all a very mundane thing or really feeling like nothing's happened at all, I suppose I can't honestly say I DON'T have expectations or beliefs.

Actually, the word is more hope.

I hope that I will ultimately find greater peace over time in the moment whereas right now I feel that I am constantly searching for something and that no matter what I achieve or what goals I set for myself, there is always something eluding me. Do I expect a permanent state to be achieved? No. But I expect to be able to experience my life and all that it contains in a different way maybe - like ohhh, here's this and now here's this and isn't that interesting how life is happening.
You mention you've done Vipassana - Do you have any specific religious / spiritual background or study?
Have you followed any particular non-dual teachers or read any books on the subject?
No specific religious / spiritual background or study. I've watched some of Jeff Foster's videos. Some of Rupert Spiral's too and some of Adyashanti's work. But I haven't studied or gone into any of it deeply.

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Xain
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Re: Ready for a guide and would be grateful for your support

Postby Xain » Thu Aug 11, 2016 9:16 am

Hi Leah

You are at a good place for this enquiry - In fact, I was at the point where you appear to be when I was guided at LU.

Expectations:
I hope that I will ultimately find greater peace over time in the moment whereas right now I feel that I am constantly searching for something and that no matter what I achieve or what goals I set for myself, there is always something eluding me. Do I expect a permanent state to be achieved? No. But I expect to be able to experience my life and all that it contains in a different way maybe - like ohhh, here's this and now here's this and isn't that interesting how life is happening.
It is important for you to put aside all expectations if possible for the outcome of the guidance other than simply 'I have realised that there is no inherently existing self here - Nor has there ever been' and realised that with complete clarity and conviction.
You see, expectations themselves have an 'I' component - 'I will achieve peace', 'I will experience life differently', 'I will become special in some way'. If it is realised that 'I' doesn't point to anything that really exists (like 'Santa Claus'), then what do these statement point to?
At the same time though in a conventional sense, if it is realised that 'I' has been an illusion all along, then things may drop off of themselves. What 'I' needs to be fixed? What 'I' has problems? What 'I' is going to suffer?
So normal conventional life (which carries on as normal anyway) may appear lighter as a by-product of this realisation, but not because of it. Does that kind-of make sense?

I know those teachers you mention - Jeff Foster, Rupert and Adya (not personally :) I've met Rupert, but not the other two). For the moment, please put aside any religious or spiritual ideas and beliefs you have for this guidance, as I will be approaching it from a very simple perspective and approach. No fancy spiritual jargon or concepts.

This realisation is utterly simple. So simple that it is overlooked continuously. Overlooked by self-reinforcing thoughts.
The pattern can be broken by examining the thoughts themselves to see if they point to anything 'real' - Anything that can be found.

Do you have any questions before we get under-way?
Please try and reply at least once a day to keep the momentum going, and I promise to do the same.

Xain ♥

leah
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Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:58 pm

Re: Ready for a guide and would be grateful for your support

Postby leah » Thu Aug 11, 2016 10:37 am

Hi Xain
You are at a good place for this enquiry - In fact, I was at the point where you appear to be when I was guided at LU.
That's good to hear.

I understand. I will do my absolute best to put aside in whatever way I can and as far as possible any expectations I have about this process and any outcome. I see how those expectations themselves have an "I" attached to them. So yes, it all makes sense.
For the moment, please put aside any religious or spiritual ideas and beliefs you have for this guidance
I will. I will be just with you throughout this process. That's my commitment.
I will be approaching it from a very simple perspective and approach. No fancy spiritual jargon or concepts.
Thank goodness :-)
Do you have any questions before we get under-way?
Please try and reply at least once a day to keep the momentum going, and I promise to do the same.
No questions right now. And yes, it shouldn't be any problem to reply at least once a day.

Thank you so much for giving your time. I appreciate it so much.

Love,
Leah

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Xain
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Re: Ready for a guide and would be grateful for your support

Postby Xain » Thu Aug 11, 2016 11:13 am

Thank you so much for giving your time. I appreciate it so much
No problem at all - I enjoy guiding and if I can get you a realisation that you want, all the better.

First of all, let's address what you currently believe.
Like I mention, please put all non-dual / spiritual stuff to one-side and reply with what you truly and honestly believe about yourself.

What does the word 'I' point to for you?
Does it point to a separate person / self / being? (I am a person called Leah)
Do you believe that you a body with a mind, that is currently sat down reading this text? (I am this body)
Do you (the body maybe) operate the senses? (I see the text - I hear the traffic outside - I feel the keys under my fingers)
Do you believe you have control of life to some extent? (I control my own destiny)
Do you control the limbs / parts of the body? (I control this body - I move my fingers when I type)
Do you control thoughts to some extent? (I think)
Are the thoughts 'yours'? (I have ideas - I have my own thoughts)
Do you have a choice in what you will reply to me? (I can choose)
Did you have a choice to begin this guidance? (I have free-will)

Those are a few loose ideas and pointers, but please feel free to open up and tell me in your own words and from your own perspective what the word 'I' points to.

Xain ♥

leah
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:58 pm

Re: Ready for a guide and would be grateful for your support

Postby leah » Thu Aug 11, 2016 2:42 pm

Hi Xain,
What does the word 'I' point to for you?
It points to me, Leah, which right now feels like my body + my personality which make up this person called Leah. It's difficult to express what it points to - I find I just want to say it points to ME - this person that walks around the world and does stuff. There's quite a strong feeling of it pointing to personality.
Does it point to a separate person / self / being? (I am a person called Leah)
Do you believe that you a body with a mind, that is currently sat down reading this text? (I am this body)
Do you (the body maybe) operate the senses? (I see the text - I hear the traffic outside - I feel the keys under my fingers)
Do you believe you have control of life to some extent? (I control my own destiny)
Do you control the limbs / parts of the body? (I control this body - I move my fingers when I type)
Do you control thoughts to some extent? (I think)
Are the thoughts 'yours'? (I have ideas - I have my own thoughts)
Do you have a choice in what you will reply to me? (I can choose)
Did you have a choice to begin this guidance? (I have free-will)
These are such clear questions, thank you. When I look at these in turn, I answer yes to every one.

Thanks, Xain.

Love,

Leah

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Xain
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Re: Ready for a guide and would be grateful for your support

Postby Xain » Thu Aug 11, 2016 5:48 pm

Hi again Leah

Good. No problems there - That's pretty straightforward.
I hope you can see the the things I pointed out are the standard view we and society have about ourselves.
The guidance will be to show that all this is an illusion created by self-referencing thoughts! There is also an 'experiential' part to it as well we can examine. The thoughts are actually assumptions (you will find) but are taking to be 'the truth' so much that they are never questioned . . . until now! ;-)

Nothing will change. But you will see how it operates for yourself - You will know it has been operating this way all along.

I take a little bit of a different tack to most guides - I tend to try to be as simple and straightforward as possible without too much jargon and few fancy concepts, and I go through each stage one piece at a time.

The main thing that keeps the illusion in place that 'I am the body', is the assumption that the body (being me, I) is responsible for all the senses. So 'I see', 'I hear', 'I feel' etc

Let's look into this now to begin with.

We will do each sense one by one. When doing these experiments, please try to focus only on the area we are examining and not to drift off into the other senses or start speculating on what the answers are. Simply answer from what appears totally clear to you - There should be no guesswork here at all.

We will begin with 'seeing'. Remember, please answer from 'seeing' only at the moment.

Close your eyes, so that you now witness 'blackness' or maybe a red/orange glow if you are staring into a bright light.
I want you to 'go to' the experience that we call 'seeing' and answer these questions from what you can find.

1) Describe what can be seen in simple terms.
2) In 'seeing' is there anything else to be found other than 'what can be seen' (what you described above)?
3) Can anything be found that is performing a function / action called 'seeing'?
3) Can a pair of eyes, a body, a brain, an 'I', a person called Leah be found that is doing 'seeing'?

Have a look and let me know what you find.
Xain ♥

leah
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:58 pm

Re: Ready for a guide and would be grateful for your support

Postby leah » Thu Aug 11, 2016 8:42 pm

Thank you Xain. I will come back to you on this one tomorrow.

And seriously, thank goodness you're into simplicity - that's EXACTLY what I need :-)

leah
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:58 pm

Re: Ready for a guide and would be grateful for your support

Postby leah » Fri Aug 12, 2016 8:12 am

Morning Xain,
I hope you can see the the things I pointed out are the standard view we and society have about ourselves.
Yes, I see that.
1) Describe what can be seen in simple terms.
Nothing. I see nothing. I flapped my hands in front of my face to check. Nothing.
2) In 'seeing' is there anything else to be found other than 'what can be seen' (what you described above)?
No. I mean, I'm not sure I totally understand the question but I guess it's irrelevant since when I look, I can't find anything else. I only find nothing.
3) Can anything be found that is performing a function / action called 'seeing'?
No, I can't find anything. I only notice here that I WANT to find something. There's a desire to be able to find something but if I'm to answer honestly, no, I can't find anything.
3) Can a pair of eyes, a body, a brain, an 'I', a person called Leah be found that is doing 'seeing'?
No. Again, I really looked and found I WANTED to be able to find this. I really wanted to find a little mini Leah sitting in my head doing the seeing. But again, if I'm honest, I cannot actually find anything.

Thanks, Xain.

Love,

Leah

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Xain
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Re: Ready for a guide and would be grateful for your support

Postby Xain » Fri Aug 12, 2016 1:53 pm

You find nothing? Nothing at all?
Don't you see black, or maybe an orange/red glow if there is a strong light somewhere?

Check again - Close your eyes - What is seen?

When I do the exercise, I see mostly black / very dark grey with a slight orange/red glow.
The glow pulsates dark and light as the traffic alters the amount of bright light coming through the window in my flat.
Maybe a few whispy 'clouds' and 'sparkles' caused by nerves I would think if I were to go into more detail.

Xain ♥

leah
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Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:58 pm

Re: Ready for a guide and would be grateful for your support

Postby leah » Sat Aug 13, 2016 8:46 am

Hi Xain,
Don't you see black, or maybe an orange/red glow if there is a strong light somewhere?
Ok, I looked again. There's black/dark. But it doesn't feel like seeing, it feels like nothing. But yes, it's black/dark. Sometimes it looks very very very densely speckled, like an old-fashioned TV when the signal's gone but with 99.99% black and a few lighter speckles. If I turn my head towards the sun, it's lighter. But why is it hard for me to name a colour? It's not like looking at a red bike or a green bottle. It's like black/nothing with light on top of it. I wouldn't call it yellow or gold or silver or any of those colours I know. Just now I noticed a horizontal strip rising up through the black/dark. If I had to give that a colour I'd say it was a really really washed out red/grey.

Thanks Xain.

Love,

:eah

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Xain
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Re: Ready for a guide and would be grateful for your support

Postby Xain » Sat Aug 13, 2016 2:12 pm

Cool - Thanks.

I just needed to check we are on the same page, as I am going to be asking you to examine what you find in the senses a lot - It is important for this enquiry.
There's a desire to be able to find something . . .
Apart from when we are asleep, the senses are always 'on' aren't they?
If the senses always are on, then there must be something to be found. I mean, something you can describe in some way.
But yes, it's black/dark. Sometimes it looks very very very densely speckled, like an old-fashioned TV when the signal's gone but with 99.99% black and a few lighter speckles. If I turn my head towards the sun, it's lighter.
Great! That's just it - That's what you found in 'seeing' (with eyes closed) - Good.

Ok, close your eyes and try again. Just answer very simply from what appears clear to you.

2) In 'seeing' is there anything else to be found other than 'what can be seen' (what you described above)?
3) Can anything be found that is performing a function / action called 'seeing'?
3) Can a pair of eyes, a body, a brain, an 'I', a person called Leah be found that is doing 'seeing'?

Xain ♥


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