Looking for a guide

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Rudra
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Looking for a guide

Postby Rudra » Wed Jul 27, 2016 1:32 am

What brings you to Liberation Unleashed?:
I know it from close ones (Laya who is a contributor here). I've been doing this work for quite a long time now with various methods and teachers (Jac O'Keeffe, Adyashanti, Sal Poe, Vipassanna Satipatana...). I would be happy to share with a guide also to re enforce the recognition of IT :).

What are you looking for? What do you expect from this?:
I expect exchanges that feed the essential truth (so difficult to express it with words), also because I don't have so many people every day to share about this and it's clear it's time for me to go deeper.

What is your background in terms of seeking and inquiry?:
15 years (I'm 41), therapy, non duality (see before), meditation, shamanism, deep emotion work...
I know and I have seen many times that nobody is in charge :)
I clearly know that nothing moves ever (I love this one) so nothing ever happen.
Some emotions drag me back to the personal I story very deeply, it's also why I contact you as I want to let those stories clear themselves and in the same time feed the knowledge of who I am (or who I am not, as you prefer :) ).
Sometimes I can observe my mouth moving while I talk and being happily surprise by the words it's saying.

How ready are you to question your beliefs about who you are and see the truth no matter what? On a scale from one to ten (ten being most ready). :
11

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0kay
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Re: Looking for a guide

Postby 0kay » Sat Jul 30, 2016 9:43 am

Hi Rudra,

i'm 0kay and like to look around with you for a while. I'm german, sometimes i'm limited in words so feel free to ask to make it more clear.

As you know we are not allowed to discuss much before the gate, but when finished you get access to more groups where we can talk and look deeper. :)

Is there a self or a higher self looking for essential truth, collecting something positive by doing this?
What is it, except the truth, what makes it worth to look for?
Hingabe, in den Moment

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Rudra
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Re: Looking for a guide

Postby Rudra » Sun Jul 31, 2016 12:00 am

Hey 0kay

Thanks for your answer.

Is there a self or a higher self looking for essential truth, collecting something positive by doing this?

It depends :), when identification is running it looks like there is a self wanting to solve its life. When identification is seen through, no self or higher self, the process is happening by itself.

What is it, except the truth, what makes it worth to look for?

I'm not sure I understand clearly. Again, when identification is running I look for the relaxing experience that "truth" often triggers in the body. When identification is not running or not strongly, I don't look for anything. Or I could say, nothing is looked for.

Also strong emotions (like fear) have a tendency to trigger identification.

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0kay
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Re: Looking for a guide

Postby 0kay » Sun Jul 31, 2016 11:05 am

Great, this was well done.
Direct experience is what is here now and looking for this is... as you've said.

I'm not shure about truth, what it means to you.
Is it a thought, a feeling, a bundle of thoughts and feelings? Or is it something what happens when there is direct experience, looking for what senses bring, without thinking or judging about?
Hingabe, in den Moment

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Rudra
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Re: Looking for a guide

Postby Rudra » Sun Jul 31, 2016 9:27 pm

Ah ah ah ah ah

Most of the times, I must admit that it is..."a thought, a feeling, a bundle of thoughts and feelings"

Sometimes (for example when I read your question !!) it is direct experience. But I think I forget that it's that simple most of the times.

Still, comments (a.k.a. thoughts) might come back quickly but, after all, it's possible to have direct experience of thoughts no ?

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0kay
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Re: Looking for a guide

Postby 0kay » Sun Jul 31, 2016 10:10 pm

Ah ah ah ah ah

Most of the times, I must admit that it is..."a thought, a feeling, a bundle of thoughts and feelings"
OK, so what you call "truth" is something wanted by thoughts, defined by thoughts? Could it be found in direct experience, in what senses bring?
Sometimes (for example when I read your question !!) it is direct experience. But I think I forget that it's that simple most of the times.
Is there a need to search for "truth" or is it every time, everywhere?
Still, comments (a.k.a. thoughts) might come back quickly but, after all, it's possible to have direct experience of thoughts no ?
Tricky question! :)
In normal definition there are five body senses.
In buddhism they say that thoughts/thinking is sensing, too.
In LU we look in direct experience what happens.

Let us have a look for: Is it possible to stop thoughts from arising, changing and disappearing?
E. g. Sunrise, Santa Clause, clouds, fruits, bus stop, music.
Hingabe, in den Moment

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Rudra
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Re: Looking for a guide

Postby Rudra » Sun Jul 31, 2016 11:41 pm

So, I clearly make a difference between identified and non identified situation.

When Identification is running, a desire for truth can exist, a truth defined by thoughts. Then non identification happens (if the phenomena is observe in direct experience, nothing decides identification or non identification, they just happen). While non identification is running there is not even a question about what truth is. What is is.

For example : typing this message happens, with all the sensory experiences it brings, including thoughts. But that's all.

Could truth be found in direct experience, in what senses bring?

I would say that there is only direct experience. Even identification is a direct experience... of identification. I can't find truth in direct experience because there is nothing to be found (it's very hard to express. In direct experience, looking for truth sounds like utterly absurd).

Is there a need to search for "truth" or is it every time, everywhere?
It is all the time everywhere, but the illusion of losing truth can appear with strong identification / attachment to sensory objects.

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Rudra
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Re: Looking for a guide

Postby Rudra » Sun Jul 31, 2016 11:44 pm

2) Could truth be found in direct experience, in what senses bring?

Maybe something is not seen during direct experience. Maybe I don't go fully in direct experience...

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Rudra
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Re: Looking for a guide

Postby Rudra » Mon Aug 01, 2016 12:12 am

Let us have a look for: Is it possible to stop thoughts from arising, changing and disappearing?

No, I don't think it's possible. The only thing possible is not to get attached and to observe thoughts a direct experience then they come and go freely (but this is 2/3 theory as I am still quite attached to thoughts)

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0kay
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Re: Looking for a guide

Postby 0kay » Mon Aug 01, 2016 9:44 am

When Identification is running, a desire for truth can exist, a truth defined by thoughts. Then non identification happens (if the phenomena is observe in direct experience, nothing decides identification or non identification, they just happen). While non identification is running there is not even a question about what truth is. What is is.

Great!

I would say that there is only direct experience. Even identification is a direct experience... of identification.

Yes!

Could truth be found in direct experience, in what senses bring? I can't find truth in direct experience because there is nothing to be found.

Yes, this is true.

In direct experience, looking for truth sounds like utterly absurd ... It is all the time everywhere, but the illusion of losing truth can appear with strong identification / attachment to sensory objects.

Yes.

Maybe something is not seen during direct experience.

Is there something/somewhere else or is it direct experience including thoughts about separation?

The only thing possible is not to get attached and to observe thoughts a direct experience then they come and go freely (but this is 2/3 theory as I am still quite attached to thoughts)

Is there a sticky thought or a belief what makes thoughts sticky?
Hingabe, in den Moment

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Rudra
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Re: Looking for a guide

Postby Rudra » Mon Aug 01, 2016 10:06 am

Is there something/somewhere else or is it direct experience including thoughts about separation?
You're right, there is a thought, a belief that it can't be that simple, that I should experience a big bang of some sort...
Is there a sticky thought or a belief what makes thoughts sticky?
There is a belief that I should do something when identification is running or to get away from sticky thoughts

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0kay
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Re: Looking for a guide

Postby 0kay » Mon Aug 01, 2016 11:45 am

Truth... there is a thought, a belief that it can't be that simple, that I should experience a big bang of some sort...

Taking direct experience as the truth... Can you give it a try, taking it simple? Tasting this for today, here-now?
Tell about at the end of the day, what has been experienced.

There is a belief that I should do something when identification is running or to get away from sticky thoughts

Where it refers to, where it belongs to? Is it stronger than direct experience?
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Rudra
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Re: Looking for a guide

Postby Rudra » Mon Aug 01, 2016 2:27 pm

Ok great ! Only I will answer tomorrow

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0kay
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Re: Looking for a guide

Postby 0kay » Mon Aug 01, 2016 9:28 pm

Hi Rudra, is it all OK with you, what happend? :)
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Rudra
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Re: Looking for a guide

Postby Rudra » Mon Aug 01, 2016 9:36 pm

Just that I was traveling today so I want a little extra time tomorrow to answer, no internet until now


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