Lee welcome to the forum, let's have a chat

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Ilona
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Lee welcome to the forum, let's have a chat

Postby Ilona » Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:44 pm

please tell us about your journey and what you expect of this conversation. in detail ;)
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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Lee
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Re: Lee welcome to the forum, let's have a chat

Postby Lee » Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:22 am

Hi , Well not sure where to start. Ibegan searching I guess when I was about 12 years old Myy church youth group became disillusioned with the practice of Christianity so we started our own church we wanted to re discover what the first Christians knew that we apparently didn't get at least judging from the adult members of the church ..LOL so from that time until now that has been my quest discovering the God in Me & All Creation.
I've been in politics ,business, religion I'm still a Bishop . I've pravticed various forms of meditation for 30 years off & on & I'm seeeing that We are truly one in spite of appearances & i know Everything is God 'if that is what you want to call it.
What am I looking for in this conversation good question ,While I am intellectually in agreement with non-dualism I would like some guidance in the actual experience. I am reading Ordinary Enlightenment & that is a great start. In all my practices I seem to have left out Feeling it & what Feeling it is like so that is may I just forgot anyway that is what I am thinking. What do you think ?

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Re: Lee welcome to the forum, let's have a chat

Postby Ilona » Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:42 am

Great! Thank you for intro. A bishop? Sounds like challenge to me. I must say I'm not Christian or any other religion practicer. I much prefer to use word life, reality than god. As this word has got so much attached to it in both positive and negative. I'll go along with god in this conversation just for you. :)

Ok, so you have been searching to see god in you and all creation.
How does it feel, if I say that god is already the whole creation, and there is nothing separate from it. There is no separation, no entity that drives this body and mind. None as in zero. There is nothing behind word 'me' at all.

Please write what thoughts and feelings come up as you read this. :)

Much love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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Lee
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Re: Lee welcome to the forum, let's have a chat

Postby Lee » Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:09 am

Ok, Well it feels like nothing .I see there is nothing apart from me, to feel as me is to feel god.That would be my experience so I am feeling god just not allowing myself to believe it . That is Liberating in a sense. So i have found what I am looking for ? Why do i question it ?

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Re: Lee welcome to the forum, let's have a chat

Postby Ilona » Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:30 am

Hm, tell me, when you say I, what does this word refer to? Don't just say what you know/ believe. Take a look.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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Lee
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Re: Lee welcome to the forum, let's have a chat

Postby Lee » Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:39 am

Looking.....the I that I am referring to is apparently what is believing & knowing something it is also a construct of language when I look trying to locate the I that I am talking about can not be localized yet except to say it is what is looking

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Re: Lee welcome to the forum, let's have a chat

Postby Ilona » Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:52 pm

it is not the i that is looking. thinking that there is i that is looking is an illusion, just an assumption which you are going to question now.

tell me Lee, where do thoughts come from and if they can be controlled. can they be stopped?
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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Lee
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Re: Lee welcome to the forum, let's have a chat

Postby Lee » Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:02 pm

Thoughts come from Silence when you follow a thought to its origin you find silence ,they exist in the mind . I know we can control which thoughts to act upon, can we control them coming into our minds? I am not sure ? I do not know if thoughts can be silenced ,I know we can go beyond them to a place where we pay more atttention to silence than to thought but have we ceased the thought or just not allowed ourselves to view it ?

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Re: Lee welcome to the forum, let's have a chat

Postby Ilona » Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:38 pm

Look at the mind. It's just never ending stream of thoughts with the label 'mind'.
All words are pointers, they are not things, subjects or objects, only words that point to something.
Take a word tree- it points to any tree, but it's not tree. When you look at a real tree and think 'tree' you can see a difference between experienced tree and a label. Like map and teritory.

Mind is just like that- label, that points to stream of thoughts. Looking from this angle, do thoughts exist in mind?

Thoughts come from silence and go back into silence.
Now look- can thoughts be controlled? If so, how you do it? Do you know what the next thought gonna be?

Please answer as honest as you can. Look, don't think about it. Check it how it is realy.
What is here if you don't think about it?
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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Re: Lee welcome to the forum, let's have a chat

Postby Lee » Sun Feb 05, 2012 12:10 am

Ok ,There is no Mind outside of the label, Mind ,just astream of thoughts .Can you control what thoughts arise ? No they arise spontaneously ..Before thought arises you do not know what that thought will be. What is here if you do not think about it ? Nothing So I Am Nothing ? I see that point of view. When I look into the vast realm of what I would call Consciousness I find it is Nothing ,Empty Space, yet it is . What is this I that is looking..Nothing what is it looking at nothing yet it is . Ahh it is Isness, don't know how to say it any other way

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Re: Lee welcome to the forum, let's have a chat

Postby Ilona » Sun Feb 05, 2012 12:25 am

What is here if you do not think about it ? Nothing
Is it true?
Can you sense environment? Is there aliveness, beingness if you stop thinking for a second or all dissapears? Does experience happen before thought or is it thought that comes first?

If you feel cold for example, do you feel cold and know that it's cold before you think about it?

Isness is a pretty good word, another word that fits well is being as in verb.
So is there being in between thoughts?

I am nothing or I am everything is equally not true. All identification is assumed. But we will get to this later, for now just have a good look and answer the questions above.


Much love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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Lee
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Re: Lee welcome to the forum, let's have a chat

Postby Lee » Sun Feb 05, 2012 1:14 am

Yes you can sense environment You can sense aliveness . if you stop thinking aliveness is still there Beingness is still there.There is Being between thoughts. It is not nothing it is Being . The question on Cold is agood one I think it goes both ways .Sometimes I wake up at night to turn on the Heater I was asleep but the cold woke me up so i wouuld say I felt cold before I thought cold,there are times when before I go out I seee the weather report & I feel cold before i get outside , then it is really Cold so i would say i expected or thought it would be cold & it was .I live in Texas & we are very sensitive to the cold .LOL So i think it goes both ways. Nothing is not as good a word as Beingness It is Beingness that exists when nothing else does ,when no thought is taken you are in a state of simply Being..so what about cold ? Cold a mental construct & environmental construct would Being be cold ?

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Re: Lee welcome to the forum, let's have a chat

Postby Ilona » Sun Feb 05, 2012 1:24 am

So you get that being is here with or without thoughts. Great.

Now look at the mind as automatic labelling machine. A narrator without the switch of button. Look around you now, notice how thoughts spring up and label objects, tell story about things how they got there, without any control over it. Labels are just that- labels that point to things, sense as well as imaginary stuff.

For example, take this word - monitor. Once you hear this label brain recognises it and you know what I'm talking about. There is a monitor right in front of you. It's here either you think about it or not and it's not dissapearing if you suddenly decide that there is no monitor.

Another example is university. It's a label for the sum of other labels that point to buildings, books, students, proffesors, computers and so on. Only there is no such thing as university. This word is an agreement, so we can communicate.

And now look at label batman. Is there a batman in your room? Do you even need to look to know that it's not there? You know that it's imaginary character, that can never be found in real life.

So look at the labels I and me, what are they pointing to? Is there anything in real life that can be sensed and be recognised as I / me?

Can you see that there are sensations + labelling of the mind.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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Lee
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Re: Lee welcome to the forum, let's have a chat

Postby Lee » Sun Feb 05, 2012 2:57 am

Yes there are sensations & Labeling but if you remove the label I or Me then there is ,in Reality, No Me..wow What I call me is just a perception ?

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Re: Lee welcome to the forum, let's have a chat

Postby Ilona » Sun Feb 05, 2012 9:14 am

Take a look here, lee.

What you think that is me it's only thoughts ABOUT me.
Is this true?
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com


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