Guidence

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starryeyes
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Guidence

Postby starryeyes » Wed May 25, 2016 11:52 am

What brings you to Liberation Unleashed?:
I just feel coming here is the next step to take. I am following what ever feels right and this feels right, so here i am.

What are you looking for? What do you expect from this?: I am looking for guidence to help me experience what i know to be true. i dont really expect anything, im just looking for connection, to what im feeling.

What is your background in terms of seeking and inquiry?:
i have a past of addiction to pain killers, two very tragic deaths of family members, a abusive past marriage. im now a single mum and thru my recovery from addiction i started watching youtube videos about what addiction is, why it happens, how to overcome it. This lead me to many videos including spiritual awakening ones. I have watched and listened to Eckhart Tolle, Byron Katey, Teal Swan, Rupart Spira, Ralph Smart and many more..I have experienced the truth, seeing thru the illusion, which made me laugh uncontrollably like ive never laughed before, but then my mind comes back and i forget but i dont really fully forget! Something is blocking or stopping it and i feel guidence is needed.

How ready are you to question your beliefs about who you are and see the truth no matter what? On a scale from one to ten (ten being most ready). : 11

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Andrei
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Re: Guidence

Postby Andrei » Sat May 28, 2016 9:40 pm

Hi

And welcome to LU. I would be happy to help you on your quest though I need to tell you first hand that "liberation" is about seeing things as they are, the truth of self. It might or might not change the outcomes of your life and that because life doesn`t really give a shit (pardon my French) about what one wants. It might get better or it might get worse.
I guess I felt the need to add that forehand because I had some cases lately with people describing themselves as very ready to see the truth and all and disappearing when they noticed life doesn`t get glamourous and amazing all of a sudden.
That being said if you still think that you are here for the right reasons and if you would like me to assist you on your journey let me know and we can get started.

Andrei

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starryeyes
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Re: Guidence

Postby starryeyes » Sun May 29, 2016 10:07 am

Hi Andrei,
Many thanks for your reply. Your guidance would be greatly appreciated.
I get it, there is no gate, because there is no "me", and there's nothing to get!
Words are so weird! The problem is "I" don't know where to go from here, and when I write that
"I" know there is no problem and no where to go because that's just the story too!
It's like in the morning it's totally clear & by the end of the day the story has sucked "me" back in.
"I'm" watching the story then "I'm" in the story.
Please help..!
Mandy ( writing that feels weird)

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Andrei
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Re: Guidence

Postby Andrei » Sun May 29, 2016 10:52 am

All right let`s do this :)

Try not to put that much importance on words and their meanings and all that. If there`s something you say I don`t understand I will simply ask for details. Same if I use a concept you`re not familiar with, simply ask me to explain. It`s just a conversation we`re having so let`s have fun.

There`s something you said in your presentation that caught my eye:
...am looking for guidence to help me experience what i know to be true. [...] I have experienced the truth, seeing thru the illusion
Can you tell me more about what you experienced? Give as much details as you like. What exactly is true in your opinion?
but then my mind comes back and i forget but i dont really fully forget! Something is blocking or stopping it and i feel guidence is needed.
By mind I presume you`re referring to the continuous stream of thoughts popping in and out on your mental-screen. (Let me know if it`s something else.)
Did you create those thoughts or did they just appear out of nowhere? Basically I`m asking if those thoughts are "yours" or whether they simply exist independent of a manager.
I get it, there is no gate, because there is no "me", and there's nothing to get!
Well, there is a gate and there isn`t a gate at the same time - hence the concept of the gateless gate. We refer to gating as to that moment when one not just understands logically that there is no self but start to also see it. When the shift in perception happens (because thats pretty much what liberation entails) and you start to SEE, then you realize there was no gate at all but a story of a self you believed to be true. Prior the gate the "liberating" experiences you might feel are somewhat fleeting and you seem stuck from going further and discovering more. After the gate it becomes living reality, no more limitations, no more blockings - just seeing life as it is.

When I say "There is no you", is there any tension, any arising fear?

That`s it for now. Again if you have any questions at all, anything not clear do let me know. Take your time in answering the questions or doing the exercises. This is your journey so walk it at your own pace.

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starryeyes
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Re: Guidence

Postby starryeyes » Mon May 30, 2016 12:18 am

Hi Andrei,
Yes let's do this, rip that bandaid off!!
I have to work for a few hours today, when I'm finished I'll reply
to your questions.
Cheers Mandy

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starryeyes
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Re: Guidence

Postby starryeyes » Mon May 30, 2016 4:24 am

Hi Andrei,
" I have experienced the truth, seeing thru the illusion"

Ok i had been watching videos- Byron Katey, Eckhart Tolle, Scott Kilby etc. and i was reading The Power of Now and suddenly i felt nervousness/ excitment, like butterflies in the stomach. then as i read a sentence, cant remember what it was, i just had the sense that i got it, it was and had been all a story and i then went inside and just started laughing, hysterically and my kids were like ''whats so fuuny mum?'' and all i could say was ''its just funny!''. I really could not stop laughing for like 15mins, by the end it was more like crying. How could i have not known this?
After that i went on with the day and felt really happy, peaceful, just a feeling everything was going to be ok.

''But then my mind comes back and i forget, but i dont really forget, something is blocking or stopping it and i feel guidence is needed''

When i say mind, yes the continuous stream of thoughts. Its kind of like when someone asks you the name of a movie and in that moment you cant remember it..Its on the tip of your tongue, so to speak..

''Did you create those thoughts or did they just appear out of nowhere?''

Well of course i always believed i created those thoughts. But now i am coming to see that ''I'' dont, they just happen on their own. I guess I''m stuck in between because sometimes there is a little bit of doubt and other times there is no doubt.

''When I say There is no you, is there any tension, any arising fear?''

Yes there is fear. Also excitment and relief. It changes. I've asked that question a few times and read it of course, and sometimes i feel alot of fear and even to the point physically sick, a loss of control. Other times i feel excited, relaxed and a shiver in my shoulders/back. Right now when i read your question there is neither of those feelings, just frustration, like ''yeah i know this'' Its on the tip of my tongue, again!
Hope that makes sense..

Could you explain how to use the quote function?
Look forward to your reply Mandy X

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Andrei
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Re: Guidence

Postby Andrei » Mon May 30, 2016 7:57 am

i just had the sense that i got it, it was and had been all a story and i then went inside and just started laughing
Reading that gave me an idea for an exercise. I would like you to take some time and see what is a story and what is not.
In every exercise you do from now on please use direct experience: There are raw experiences: hearing, seeing, touching, smelling, and tasting. There are sensations in the body (hunger, thirst, or pain). This is what we refer to as direct experience. Basically no thinking about it, just watching. It`s the difference between mental reasoning and the liberating seeing.
This exercise can make all the difference and even push you through the gate in no time. It`s good to do whenever you have some time off. In this case I don`t need you to write a whole chapter, just a few items that are a story and some that are not.
When i say mind, yes the continuous stream of thoughts.[...] Well of course i always believed i created those thoughts. But now i am coming to see that ''I'' dont, they just happen on their own. I guess I''m stuck in between because sometimes there is a little bit of doubt and other times there is no doubt.
All right, let`s dispel those doubts. Just watch (apply DE) and see if you can pick and choose a thought and write down if any thought was your creation.
Also, can you notice that at certain times a thought comes and says, "I did this", or "It`s me". Can you see that I-thought as nothing but a thought that comes and hijacks the experience going on and making it look like there`s an I/self/ego/whatever-you-want-to-call-it that makes things happen?
Yes there is fear. Also excitment and relief. It changes.
Those sensations you feel - any sensation really! - are they "yours" or do they pop in independent of a manager?
Could you explain how to use the quote function?
The easiest way is to simply write the code directly in your answer. I will attach a print screen with me writing my answers in .txt. (I do that so I don`t lose what I write in case the website refreshes or smth). Also after you write your reply on the website, there`s a preview button where you can see how it looks like, and if any code is broken (doesn`t have tags for both beginning and end).

http://postimg.org/image/hfal7b6ln/

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starryeyes
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Re: Guidence

Postby starryeyes » Tue May 31, 2016 8:26 am

Hi Andrei,

[quoteThis exercise can make all the difference and even push you through the gate in no time. It`s good to do whenever you have some time off. In this case I don`t need you to write a whole chapter, just a few items that are a story and some that are not.][/quote]

Story :
I'm driving my daughter to school.
In my car.
We are running late.

Not Story:
walking
sitting
hearing ( engine sounds, radio)
seeing

talking

Story:
I'm washing my dishes, in my house
with my hands

Not story:
seeing
touching
wetness
hearing (dishes touching sink)
hearing sounds (outside)
moving
warmth

[quoteAll right, let`s dispel those doubts. Just watch (apply DE) and see if you can pick and choose a thought and write down if any thought was your creation.
Also, can you notice that at certain times a thought comes and says, "I did this", or "It`s me". Can you see that I-thought as nothing but a thought that comes and hijacks the experience going on and making it look like there`s an I/self/ego/whatever-you-want-to-call-it that makes things happen?][/quote]

The ''I'' thought is another thought.I can see clearly that ''I'' dont control thoughts.
I cant make them appear or disapear.
Doubt comes when a thought like I'm hungry comes and then I look in the fridge and decide to have an apple. I still feel like 'I' decided to choose the apple..??

[quote]Those sensations you feel - any sensation really! - are they "yours" or do they pop in independent of a manager?
I can see clearly they come about on their own. "I" dont make them happen. Definitely no manager. They arise from an experience or from thoughts about an experience.
Cheers Mandy

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Andrei
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Re: Guidence

Postby Andrei » Tue May 31, 2016 9:01 am

Wow you really messed the code thingie completely :D
It`s like this: (quote)text you want to quote(/quote), (b)text(/b), (i)text(/i), etc. Just replace round brackets ( ) with square ones [ ].
Or, even easier, after you copy paste the text you want quoted, select it and then press the Quote button in the above menu and you will see the codes appearing around the text.

You did very good at seeing the story. Now that you got the hang of it you can see in day-to-day life when and how identification happen and simply take a step away from it. Do not get discouraged if it`s not going to magically happen all of the time. I for instance do get lost in the story every now and then even after a year and a half since my "liberation". We all do. But with time it will get much easier.
Doubt comes when a thought like I'm hungry comes and then I look in the fridge and decide to have an apple. I still feel like 'I' decided to choose the apple..??
There are a few things here worth looking into.
First of all, what was first, the thought of hunger or the sensation in the body after which a thought came and said "I`m hungry"? Did the thought hijacked the sensation?

And second, even if the thought came first, you already said neither thoughts nor sensations are controlled by a manager. So where are the doubts coming from?
Is the doubt just you overthinking things? Does this whole process seem too easy and your mind somehow expects something more difficult?
Please look into it and let me know.

(I had a somewhat highly analitical mind and that hindered my own "liberation". At one point I used to deconstruct all sorts of levels of the self instead of just seeing the big picture that there is no self. My mind was just creating something out of nothing. Not to blame of course, that is what minds do :D)

And speaking of choices:
Take two objects/possibilities, of which you might ordinarily choose either e.g. coffee or tea, blue pen or black pen, salt and pepper, then sit and see if you can find the choice-point where you could go either way. Describe how choosing happens.

You`re doing great Mandy. Keep at it :)

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Andrei
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Re: Guidence

Postby Andrei » Tue May 31, 2016 10:49 am

And one more thing in regard with doubts. What is a doubt? Is it a thought, or a sensation inside the body? Who has the doubt? It is the mind? Is it just a concept? Then it has nothing to do with a "you". Can you see the doubt as something simply existing, popping in and out of your awareness?
In my previous answer I was trying to make you dissect the doubt, but now thinking of it, it would be a lot easier to simply let it be.
"Here`s a feeling of doubt popping in. I`m just going to stay here and watch it. And here`s the doubt walking away. Good riddance!"
Well, something like that :)

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starryeyes
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Re: Guidence

Postby starryeyes » Wed Jun 01, 2016 6:39 am

Hi Andrei,
[quoteYou did very good at seeing the story. Now that you got the hang of it you can see in day-to-day life when and how identification happen and simply take a step away from it.]
Yes, seeing happens and then the mind labels what it sees. eg: thats a sky, but its really just seeing colours.

[quote
Take two objects/possibilities, of which you might ordinarily choose either e.g. coffee or tea, blue pen or black pen, salt and pepper, then sit and see if you can find the choice-point where you could go either way. Describe how choosing happens.
][/quote]

I cant find a choosing point in direct experience. I look at an object/ possibility and a choice just happens on its own.
So 'I" am not choosing.

[quote
What is a doubt? Is it a thought, or a sensation inside the body? Who has the doubt? It is the mind? Is it just a concept? Then it has nothing to do with a "you". Can you see the doubt as something simply existing, popping in and out of your awareness? ]
[/quote]

Doubt is a thought, sometimes followed by a sensation in the body. A feeling of tightness or contraction in the chest or stomach area.
Nobody has doubt, its just a thought in the mind. Yes it is a concept.

Ive probably messed up the quote function again, not very good with computers. I dont understand what you mean by codes??. Sorry, will keep trying to work it out..
Many Thanks
Mandy

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Andrei
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Re: Guidence

Postby Andrei » Wed Jun 01, 2016 7:26 am

Yes, seeing happens and then the mind labels what it sees.
Precisely.
Doubt is a thought, sometimes followed by a sensation in the body. A feeling of tightness or contraction in the chest or stomach area.
Brilliant. And like I told you before, the thoughts/feelings we label as negative will not disappear just because one does not identify with them any more. But seeing them for what they are (I simply refer to them as innate functions of the brain/organism) will make them loosen up their grip over us to a point they don`t even matter any more.

I think the following questions are rather easy for you but going to ask them anyway just to make sure nothing was left unattended:
In direct experience, can you find an “I” that experiences experience? Is there a watcher separate from the seen?

Is there a self that controls breathing? that walks? that does daily activities?
Get up… walk slowly… is there a controller that controls walking? or is there just walking?


Does the body experience sensations and thought or is the "body" just another thought label for sensations (namely tactile & kinesthetic)?
Ive probably messed up the quote function again, not very good with computers. I dont understand what you mean by codes??. Sorry, will keep trying to work it out..
The code is the opening and closing tags that surround a snippet of text. For instance if you want to quote text you add [ quote ] in front, without spaces, which is the beginning tag, then you type or copy paste the text and after the text you add [/ quote ], again without spaces inside the square brackets, which is the end tag.
But no worries. If you like you can simply quote text using quotation marks or even change the colour of the font. I will understand what you mean.

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starryeyes
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Re: Guidence

Postby starryeyes » Wed Jun 01, 2016 9:04 am

Hi Andrei,

[quote
In direct experience, can you find an “I” that experiences experience? Is there a watcher separate from the seen?
No I cant find an 'I" that experiences experience. "I" is just a thought.
No there isnt a watcher separate from the seen. There is only seeing.

[quote
Is there a self that controls breathing? that walks? that does daily activities?
Get up… walk slowly… is there a controller that controls walking? or is there just walking?
There is no "self" that controls daily activities. There is only breathing happening. There is only walking happening.
All daily activities are just happening, no one is doing them, theres just doing..


[quote
]Does the body experience sensations and thought or is the "body" just another thought label for sensations (namely tactile & kinesthetic)?
[/quote]


"The body" is just another thought label. There are only sensations, thoughts, happening. They point to the mind, flesh, organs, arms, legs, eyes etc..

Looking forward to more questions..

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Andrei
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Re: Guidence

Postby Andrei » Wed Jun 01, 2016 10:17 am

What about the other objects (nature, animals, people)? Is there a "you" that feels separated from them or is that just another thought/concept?

What about the platform on which things happen, call it mind-screen, call it awareness, consciousness, etc. Is that a deeper level of the "self" or is it just another bodily function?

What about free will? Do you have any? Or is that just a mind-construct?

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starryeyes
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Re: Guidence

Postby starryeyes » Wed Jun 01, 2016 11:31 am

Hi Andrei,

[quote
What about the other objects (nature, animals, people)? Is there a "you" that feels separated from them or is that just another thought/concept?]
This body feels separate from from them because they are over there and this body is over here looking at them..

[quote
What about free will? Do you have any? Or is that just a mind-construct?
Free will is just athought/concept. Like a choice. In DE there is no free will.

[quote
What about the platform on which things happen, call it mind-screen, call it awareness, consciousness, etc. Is that a deeper level of the "self" or is it just another bodily function?
Its just another bodily fuction. All bodies have this. This body has a different mind screen where different things appear so it still feels separate...??

Mandy


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