Clarity

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Dale Marie
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Clarity

Postby Dale Marie » Wed Apr 27, 2016 1:50 am

What brings you to Liberation Unleashed?:
I have seen videos of Ilona in the past. Recently I saw on a FB comment mention of this website. And it peaked my interest to check it out again.
And I would like to work with Ghata as a guide, whom I just met and spoke with today on the Liberation Unleashed Gate on Facebook.

What are you looking for? What do you expect from this?:
I have already had glimpse of there is no Me - I would like assistance with understanding this more.
I would like to request Ghata as my guide.

What is your background in terms of seeking and inquiry?:
I have been into Non-Duality "teachings" on and off for about 20yrs. Though mostly it is knowledge and not direct experience. A few glimpse but not sticking.

How ready are you to question your beliefs about who you are and see the truth no matter what? On a scale from one to ten (ten being most ready). : 10

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Ghata
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Re: Clarity

Postby Ghata » Wed Apr 27, 2016 5:16 am

Dear Dale,

welcome to the forum of Liberation Unleashed. It is so lovely to meet you here. :-) Do you want me to call you Dale?

Our dialogue will be similar to our chat in the gate group. I will give you questions and you look into them and answer them. Please be 100% honest. You can't get the answers wrong. It is good to answer daily, momentum helps. If you can't make it, just leave me a short note.

Put books, videos and audios about this topic aside for now. You will now find out in your own experience whether it is true what is said.

One technical note: Please familiarise yourself with the quote function, so I know what questions you are referring to when answering.

http://liberationunleashed.com/nation/v ... ?f=4&t=660

Are you okay with everything?


Then here are my first questions:

What do you expect will happen when seeing through the illusion of self?
How will you feel when it happens and how will you feel afterwards?
How will it change your life, what will still be there and what will be gone?


I am looking forward to hearing from you.

Much love,
Ghata
In the seen just the seen. In the heard just the heard.
(Bahiya-Sutta)

http://www.unterwegsmitbuddha.de

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Dale Marie
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Re: Clarity

Postby Dale Marie » Wed Apr 27, 2016 3:52 pm

Hello Ghata! Yes calling me Dale is fine
Then here are my first questions:

What do you expect will happen when seeing through the illusion of self?

How will it change your life, what will still be there and what will be gone?
Q - What do you expect will happen when seeing through the illusion of self?
A - I use to have an expectation, and it was from reading about it, I would say that when first doing self inquiry
wanting to find 'God" Be one with everything, I thought when I get "there" I would be enlightened, hmm, to me that meant -I would know everything, be in the world but not of it. I thought problems would stop and that I could manifest what ever I wanted. Now that I am writing this I realize that I started with wanting to create my reality - more abundance, do miracles. Then I found Nesargatta - Advita and what I thought it was about is to stop thoughts - to find out who you are.

How will you feel when it happens and how will you feel afterwards?
I have had it happen - The nothingness - it took me along time to get there - and then I was like - okay - now what! How does this help me while I am here on earth in a body with all this crap going on in the world! lol So I then lost interest in it, and feel back to sleep in a way. In hind sight, I had not allowed any awareness of this into my life at the time.
How will it change your life, what will still be there and what will be gone?
What I have experienced - is what I am now calling Presence, it is always Here - but I see I am mostly in my mind thoughts of past and future to notice. So really that is what I am wanting - to notice presence more often.
But-after reading Ilonas free book a couple days ago and talking to you - what I saw is that I was thinking there is a Me!
So when I looked for the me, or the I - I could not find it - this was interesting, because when I did "Be Present" stuff, it was cool, beautiful, relaxing, But I still thought "I" was doing it - there was a Me experiencing it.

So I am looking out into the world and into myself now - realizing there is no me - no individual self.
So to answer the question - How will it change my life: It wont. What is still there is everything that was before. What is changing is my perception of me and the world. The idea of I need to control it, I need to help people change, that everything is up to Me! Right now it mostly feels like an idea, a concept though. Like a new religion, or believe. It is like I am testing the waters to see if this is really true or not. "There is no self"

omg - after writing all this I saw what I am really after! In regards to this question - What do you expect will happen when seeing through the illusion of self? The fear of Death will be gone and I know that I do not cease to exist. I do not want to forget who I am. I do not want to be born again in a body and go through hatred, fear, and domination living as a robot to the ideas of what others think life should be. This is a consuming world where everyone takes from others and lives in fear of survival. That is what I want - but I cant not say I expect that to happen.
Okay - It feels like that is enough for now.

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Ghata
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Re: Clarity

Postby Ghata » Wed Apr 27, 2016 4:46 pm

Dear Dale,

wow, you have gone through a lot of expectations over time and brought them down so much! Thank you for your willingness to share :-)

The self is an Illusion. Recognizing that something is an Illusion, just like Santa, doesn't change life. We talked a bit about that in the group. It changes the perspective.

So thoughts will be there, feelings will be there, you personality will be there. Nothing real gets lost.

Most likely it will also be very different to your experience of nothingness.
omg - after writing all this I saw what I am really after! In regards to this question - What do you expect will happen when seeing through the illusion of self? The fear of Death will be gone and I know that I do not cease to exist. I do not want to forget who I am. I do not want to be born again in a body and go through hatred, fear, and domination living as a robot to the ideas of what others think life should be. This is a consuming world where everyone takes from others and lives in fear of survival. That is what I want - but I cant not say I expect that to happen.
I do not know whether the fear of death will be gone after the gate. The gate is the first step into deepening insights. At some point it is possible that your true nature will be seen. Then it is clear that you are not born and cannot die.


Please notice reactions, body sensations and feelings when reading the following sentence:

There is no "I", no "self" and never has been. There is nobody thinking, deciding or acting. The driver's seat is empty.


Share what comes up.


Warm regards,
Ghata
In the seen just the seen. In the heard just the heard.
(Bahiya-Sutta)

http://www.unterwegsmitbuddha.de

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Dale Marie
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Re: Clarity

Postby Dale Marie » Wed Apr 27, 2016 5:46 pm

Please notice reactions, body sensations and feelings when reading the following sentence:

There is no "I", no "self" and never has been. There is nobody thinking, deciding or acting. The driver's seat is empty.
I was thinking about this and I will just share what I wrote earlier.
But first a response to this
Most likely it will also be very different to your experience of nothingness
.
Yes it is different, it is not a "high" like being in Presence being Here with No Judgments. I felt it yesterday - It felt like my body when numb - my thoughts just stopped, well they did not stop but they made no sense! lol - And at first I did not want to move - I just sat with this new understanding - because I could not find the I - the Me it did not exist. Yes - it felt like learning that Santa is not real - It is a shock.

That is what happened yesterday - Then the questions started coming, have so many questions. Actually - I have always had these questions. This is one of them:
I just want to say - that saying there is no personal I or me - feel like it can lead one to think they have no self responsibly for anything happening. Like sorry for your luck you have a father that rapes you. Sorry for your luck that you have been sold into slavery as a young child. Sorry that you are living in a country with constant war and have no food to eat, because of greedy people, that do not care about any living thing.
These are the thing that do not make sense to me - and I think something is creating it - I would say it is the believe in a personal I that one thinks they need to protect...
------------
I will share another rant:
As far as having no choice - I am not sure about this.
Would you say that we are awareness or that awareness happens.

What I am feeling is that the search is over in a way, and there is awareness of experiences. I did find though that once I became aware that emotions, thoughts just arise out of no where - that I am not thinking them - I do not ask these thoughts to come - I see they are programs literately - like how one programs a computer to do things - That our thoughts have been programmed via the mind. But something did come up with this way to use thoughts as a program. So until you see this - you do not have a choice.
When you see this, I am finding that a thought will arise and if I am consciously aware at that time - I can choose whether or not I want to listen to it. So in that sense there does fill like there is a doer, like I had a choice to follow the thought or not - at that moment only.
I can not say it is me though - because I can not say that I woke myself up! lol - It just happened that the thoughts I had are one of questioning reality. And the feeling that something is not right. For example to me purposeful abuse is not right, or imo natural. So that started my questioning life -
It started at a very young age with why would God allow such abuse? And I have been searching for that answer ever since.
Have I found the answer? If one believes in separate entities, then yes I found the answer. First there is no God that tells us what to do - There is just life - but there are entitles who want to be God and think they are. In the way that they feel the need for power and control.
lol - I laugh because omg - the self Q and A are endless I think... hmm

Okay I feel like I got out the questions I have been most concerned with.

Thank you Ghata

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Re: Clarity

Postby Ghata » Wed Apr 27, 2016 6:19 pm

Dear Dale,

what a lovely response :-)

It is evening here and I will reply fully tomorrow.

Much love, Ghata

P.S. I will insert our chat here, so people reading this will know what we are referring to.
In the seen just the seen. In the heard just the heard.
(Bahiya-Sutta)

http://www.unterwegsmitbuddha.de

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Re: Clarity

Postby Ghata » Wed Apr 27, 2016 6:47 pm

This Chat happened in the evening of the 26th of April, 2016 and preceded our dialogue in the Forum. For the ease of following what we are talking about, I'll add it here.


Dale Marie
Hi, thanks for your question. I had the experience of peace, joy and amazement when I really could not find an I -there is no me. Now what comes up within thoughts is that this is saying we are victims and have no power. And the question keeps arising - who or what then is creating these thoughts?


Dale Marie
hmm So if nothing is creating these thoughts - they just arise -then they are just illusions...So illusions keep arising as questions to validate the illusion? gezz lol


Dale Marie
Weird!


Ghata
Hahaha. Great questions! Right, thoughts are arising to validate the illusion, except when they are focusing on solving tasks for example. Thoughts are not illusions - they can be experienced clearly. Their "content " though cannot be experienced with ...Mehr anzeigen
• • • 7:23 •


Dale Marie
hm.. okay I am mulling this over - but who or what is mulling it over? Is life questioning itself?
• • 7:27


Ghata
What about the question: Is there anybody mulling this over. Can you see, hear, touch, smell, taste somebody mulling this over?
• • 7:29


Dale Marie
Hm, No - So this is just thoughts arising? Meaning thoughts come and go
• • 7:32


Dale Marie
So there is no owner of the thoughts - yes I see that.
• • 7:33


Ghata
Yes. Have a look, let the thoughts arise and then see whether you can predict what thought comes next and stop it from arising if you don't like it „smile“-Emoticon
• • 7:33 •


Ghata
Don't take my word for any of this. I am not talking gospel. Always have a look yourself.
• • 7:34


Dale Marie
lol - I can not stop or know the next thought! - the only thing it seems that can be done is ignore it. - but that was a thought too...
• • 7:35


Ghata
Haha, very good!
• • 7:36


Dale Marie
oh boy! lol
• • 7:36


Ghata
Yes, oh boy! „grin“-Emoticon
• • 7:37


Dale Marie
Can I ask you then what do you "think" about this question. You said " Thoughts are not illusions - they can be experienced clearly." The question coming up then is Life questioning Itself? I think what I am getting at is - there has to be a reason for thoughts. lol hm...
• • 7:42


Dale Marie PS
Thanks for baring with me!
• • 7:43


Dale Marie I am so grateful to have someone to talk about this with.
• • 7:44


Dale Marie
It is like something wants to be satisfied with an answer, so it can move on. The answer of -Why are there thoughts.
• • 7:47


Ghata
Watch thoughts come and go, one after the other. Where do they come from and where do they go to. Can you see why they are coming, can you find the answer?
• • 7:48


Dale Marie
No - there is no answer as to why there are thoughts and where they come from and where they go... Questions are thoughts... - I think this is what is tripping me up ( " Thoughts are not illusions - they can be experienced clearly. Their "content " though cannot be experienced with any sense whatsoever - the content is illusory.") I am not sure what this means.
• • 7:55


Ghata
Yes, the questions are all thoughts. With the content being illusory I mean: Close your eyes. Think of a spoon. Make it as detailed as possible. Does it have ornaments? What is it made of? Pick it up and feel it's weight. Now open your eyes. Where is the spoon gone?
• • 7:57


Dale Marie
oh - okay.
• • 7:58


Ghata
Did you do it?
• • 7:59


Dale Marie
Sitting with it
• • • 7:59


Dale Marie
Yes I see that - thank you - still sitting with something.. I will let you know
• • 8:0


Ghata
Just go ahead. It's fun talking to you „smile“-Emoticon
• • 8:0


Dale Marie
You to! „smile“-Emoticon
• • • 8:0


Dale Marie
What is happening now is - I had something I wanted to bring up - but now it is gone, or I can say it feels like it is hiding! lol! hahaha
• • 8:03


Ghata
„grin“-Emoticon
• • 8:04


Dale Marie T
he questions feel like they just collapsed!
• • 8:04


Ghata
We might pull the curtain on the Wizard of OZ!
• • 8:04


Dale Marie
Haha!
• • 8:04


Ghata
How did you find out about the illusion of self?
• • 8:05


Dale Marie wow!
• • • 8:05


Dale Marie W
ell - I saw video of Ilona years ago - and I have been into Nesargatta etc since like 20 yrs ago!
• • 8:06


Dale Marie
But could not get past there is a me
• • 8:07


Ghata
Yes. And then what happened?
• • 8:07


Dale Marie
That "I" was here for a reason - that "I" had to do something with my life -
• • 8:07


Ghata
Okay..
• • 8:08


Dale Marie
Then what happened I stumbled onto her site a few days ago - And since all my searching had left me flat - I wanted to give her another try - so I downloaded the ebook - And then YOU happened!!
• • 8:09


Dale Marie
„smile“-Emoticon
• • 8:09


Dale Marie
I never had anyone work with me with questions - All was just reading
• • 8:0


Dale Marie
And I have been heavy into - There is Ego ( the culprit -lol) and that I need to learn about it - so I can "control it"
• • 8:


Ghata „smile“-Emoticon.
It is great to be asked questions. Did you ever think about getting a guide in the forum?
• • 8:


Ghata
Yes, having to control the ego....an endless task....who should do it?
• • 8:2


Dale Marie
I was thinking about it - but this seemed to be the place for now.
• • 8:2


Dale Marie
Right! Battling the ego! Endless!
• • 8:3


Ghata „grin“-Emoticon.
Another merry-go-round.
• • 8:3


Ghata I
n the forum the same happens what I just did. The guide asks you questions and you answer them. That's all. You are doing really well!
• • 8:4


Dale Marie
When you explained the difference between content and thought - is when I saw it! Thank you!
• • 8:4


Ghata
You are welcome „smile“-Emoticon. And the best part is: there are no wrong ansers
• • 8:5


Dale Marie
If I have more questions - I can ask for a guide - but you seem to already be doing that „smile“-Emoticon
• • 8:5


Dale Marie I
suppose this ended up being a long thread - so - yes, might be better to ask on the forum. I am happy to have this place to share!
• • 8:8


Ghata
Dale, no need to end a thread, there is no prescribed length for it. If you like to be guided in the forum, i would be happy to assist you there as well. The formatting is easier there and the experiments are a bit more complex which I can't really do here. But if you feel like going on here for a while, no problem. Is there any fear about the process?
• • 8:20


Dale Marie
No fear about the process - I want to do it - I feel like Then end of my reason for being is gone! And it feels like a heavy weight has been lifted.
• • 8:23


Dale Marie
Yes I would like that - On the forum „smile“-Emoticon
• • 8:23


Ghata
Dale, does the rose need a reason to blossom? Does the bird need a reason to sing it's beautiful song? Being is already enough reason for being „smile“-Emoticon. When you register on the forum, say somewhere that you would like be to be your guide. My forum name is Ghata.
• • • 8:26


Dale Marie
Okay - I just registered. I am feeling very tired atm. whew!
• • 8:46


Ghata
Wow!
• • 8:54


Ghata
That was quick!
• • • 8:54


Ghata
You just did a lot of work, you might not have noticed it „smile“-Emoticon
• • 8:54


Dale Marie
Yes - I think that is why I am feeling so tired!
• • 8:55


Dale Marie
I feel deflated! whew!
• • 8:55


Ghata
Deflated?
• • 8:56

(.....)


Dale Marie
I feel like I want to sleep but I cant move
• • 8:59


Ghata
Can you tell me which sensations are present in the body and where?
• • 9:00


Dale Marie
I feel numb - not so much the body - the mind is numb
• • 9:0


Dale Marie
I know this is a good thing - the deflation is the mind -
• • 9:02


Ghata
It is fine. Feel it, welcome it. Thank it for being there. It tries to protect you. Ask it what it wants to tell you.
• • 9:02


Dale Marie
Yes - I am just feeling the quietness! lol
• • 9:02


Ghata
Great!
• • • 9:04


Dale Marie
I am so glad I do not have to got to work until 5hrs - I feel like a zombie!
• • 9:07


Dale Marie
But a thought just arrived that I will be fine - that doing will just happen
• • • 9:09


Ghata
Beautiful. You will be fine. Something in you is frightened. There is no need to be frightened. You will not loose anything. You will just see that the I never was there.
• • 9:


Dale Marie
I call it the "ego" is afraid - the illusionary self is afraid it wont exist. And that is what is does, that's it job, to be afraid of non existence! lol
• • 9:6
In the seen just the seen. In the heard just the heard.
(Bahiya-Sutta)

http://www.unterwegsmitbuddha.de

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Ghata
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Re: Clarity

Postby Ghata » Thu Apr 28, 2016 9:39 am

Dear Dale,

Thank you for your lovely reply and for sharing your questions that came up.
Yes it is different, it is not a "high" like being in Presence being Here with No Judgments. I felt it yesterday - It felt like my body when numb - my thoughts just stopped, well they did not stop but they made no sense! lol - And at first I did not want to move - I just sat with this new understanding - because I could not find the I - the Me it did not exist. Yes - it felt like learning that Santa is not real - It is a shock.
This is beautiful to hear :-). Yes, seeing that there is no Me doesn't make you feel "high", at first it can rather be quite a shock.

How did it go after the first shock? How do you feel now and how does life feel? What is still there and what isn't?

I just want to say - that saying there is no personal I or me - feel like it can lead one to think they have no self responsibly for anything happening. Like sorry for your luck you have a father that rapes you. Sorry for your luck that you have been sold into slavery as a young child.
This is awakening gone wrong. Maybe you already noticed, after seeing that there is no ME there are still self aspects working. They will dissolve over time when looked into. When they are not looked into, they might grab this new experience to create a bigger Me, an enlightened Me, and use it for exerting power. It is a trap to watch out for.
Real awakening will open the way to love flowing freely.

We will look into the question about how decision are made as we go along.

I am looking forward to hearing from you.

Much love,
Ghata
In the seen just the seen. In the heard just the heard.
(Bahiya-Sutta)

http://www.unterwegsmitbuddha.de

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Dale Marie
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Re: Clarity

Postby Dale Marie » Thu Apr 28, 2016 4:02 pm

Hi Ghata, I will answer these questions
How did it go after the first shock?
How do you feel now and how does life feel?
What is still there and what isn't?
After the first shock
Yesterday I was in a fog, I think I was not feeling well physically feels like allergies and I was dealing with something I do not enjoy doing.
But behind it all, instead of judging the experience I more or less just went with it.
I am hearing thoughts of - so there is no one in the driver seat, then we are all victims! lol When I think that.. it is like I am powerless to do anything. And that feels, hm... The "I" thinks it is here for a purpose. I feel sad when I think that there is not a purpose to be here.
Now I am thinking, but there are no Me,s to be a victim. And then I just sit with that thought
How do you feel now and how does life feel?
Now I am thinking about yesterday experience - which is an issue that I need to take care of,that has been going on for quite awhile. I am disappointed because I thought it would be resolved yesterday. ( I am trying to find a care giver for a friend, this has been going on for a year now - in the mean time I am doing it)
So I feel now about the same as always, but through out the day I ponder there is no Me.
What is still there and what isn't?
Everything is still here, but I would say my perception of it is different. So what is not here, is that I do not feel as stressed about confronting issues in life.I realize people can't change, because there is no Me to change. If something does change, it just does but no one is personalty doing it. This does give me the filling of a weight being lifted - like wow - it is not up to me to change everyone.

I see this because I did not decide to search for answers, it is just what happened to me. The thoughts come out of nowhere, so then I am not "thinking them" but there is something there that can "hear" them.

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Re: Clarity

Postby Dale Marie » Thu Apr 28, 2016 4:06 pm

PS, I just thought the sadness I am feeling is really because the interview with the new care giver when really well. We thought. Then she called after she left and said she could not do it. So I thought this would be over. And now back at it again.

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Dale Marie
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Re: Clarity

Postby Dale Marie » Thu Apr 28, 2016 5:04 pm

Hi, me again, sorry I have been writing questions that are coming up. Hope you dont mind.
I just realized that I have been heavy into the the "I"dea of "Be the Change You Wish to See in the World." I really thought that it is up to us (humans) and their personal "I" to wake up.
Meaning see what the belief in separation has caused. The short of it is "Us against Them equals survival." When the belief of separation is gone there will naturally be unity, thus wars and abuse would end. So I have believed that I am on a mission to end suffering. I thought it was a personal responsibility....
So this is what is weird to me. Would you say it is just Consciousness that is changing
or wants to change. And there is no personal I doing it then?

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Re: Clarity

Postby Ghata » Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:59 pm

Dear Dale,

thank you for sharing everything that comes up. :-)

When it is seen that there is no me, the thoughts immediately jump at it and try to explain life from this new viewpoint. That's what thoughts are there for. Only- thoughts cannot see, hear, feel. We will look into these questions in the actual experience to find out what's true.
But behind it all, instead of judging the experience I more or less just went with it.
Lovely :-). Can the present moment be any different from what it is?
Everything is still here, but I would say my perception of it is different. So what is not here, is that I do not feel as stressed about confronting issues in life.I realize people can't change, because there is no Me to change. If something does change, it just does but no one is personalty doing it. This does give me the filling of a weight being lifted - like wow - it is not up to me to change everyone.
This is very precious insight. How wonderful that the weight is lifted! Right, who would change another person. There is nobody changing and there is nobody to be changed.
PS, I just thought the sadness I am feeling is really because the interview with the new care giver when really well. We thought. Then she called after she left and said she could not do it. So I thought this would be over. And now back at it again.
This is a really disappointing situation. Feelings are there to be felt. They are not a problem, they pass through like the clouds through the sky.

Think of the moment when you heard that the new care giver wouldn't do it. Feel the arising sensations in the body.
Allow them to be there, welcome them.

Where are they exactly? How do they feel like? Tingling, warmth, cold, pressure, constriction or tension?
Do these pure sensations have a name? Where does the name come from and when is it added?
When feeling them, is there a feeler and the felt or just feeling?

Share what you find. I am looking forward to your reply.

Much love,
Ghata
In the seen just the seen. In the heard just the heard.
(Bahiya-Sutta)

http://www.unterwegsmitbuddha.de

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Re: Clarity

Postby Dale Marie » Thu Apr 28, 2016 8:26 pm

Think of the moment when you heard that the new care giver wouldn't do it. Feel the arising sensations in the body.
Allow them to be there, welcome them.

Where are they exactly? How do they feel like? Tingling, warmth, cold, pressure, constriction or tension?
Do these pure sensations have a name? Where does the name come from and when is it added?
When feeling them, is there a feeler and the felt or just feeling?

Share what you find. I am looking forward to your reply.
Sensations in the body - heaviness/tension in the chest, there is a tingling through the body.
No they did not have a name until I was asked to identity them. I could say when I heard the news she canceled, I was disappointed and then my body sensations started. The feeling of tension, panic (like now what am I going to do)
So first the thought "now what I am going to do to get out of this" - then the panic/fear that I am going to be stuck with this situation forever. And then the body sensation immediately after the thought/panic of being stuck.
Hm... So the thought then was, "I am going to be stuck in a situation I do not like forever." And that caused the physical experience of panic, feeling there is no way out. Then leading to depression, = I am stuck with this.
When feeling them, is there a feeler and the felt or just feeling
hmm. there must be a feeler if I am experiencing this. But when I look I can not find an 'I" that would be the experiencer. So I wonder then, what caused the panic? Nothing? It just arose out of a thought - " I am stuck?" Even the idea/thought is really "I am not getting what I want" So disappoint and panic arise.

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Ghata
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Re: Clarity

Postby Ghata » Fri Apr 29, 2016 10:12 am

Dear Dale,

lovely how you looked into the sensations :-)

there must be a feeler if I am experiencing this. But when I look I can not find an 'I" that would be the experiencer.
"There must be a feeler" is a thought. The experience is: "There is no feeler, no I being the experiencer." What is true? Thought or experience?
So I wonder then, what caused the panic? Nothing? It just arose out of a thought - " I am stuck?" Even the idea/thought is really "I am not getting what I want" So disappoint and panic arise.

When staying with your first hand experience, what is your answer to these question?

Experiment:
Today become aware of the thought stories that are running and of the reality that is experienced through the 5 senses.

Change Focus deliberately. For example when you got caught up in thoughts including emotions, step out of it for a moment and take in what is actually Happening. What are you seeing, hearing, touching, smelling, tasting?

And do it the other way round. Watching the sun set pay attention what is going on in thoughts? What main topic is present in thoughts at the same moment?

Share one or two occasions when you did this experiment.

Much love,
Ghata
In the seen just the seen. In the heard just the heard.
(Bahiya-Sutta)

http://www.unterwegsmitbuddha.de

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Dale Marie
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Re: Clarity

Postby Dale Marie » Fri Apr 29, 2016 5:13 pm

Hi I am going back to a question you asked:
"When feeling them, is there a feeler and the felt or just feeling?"
Wow there is just feeling - There is no I feeling them...
There is no I creating the thought - They come out of no where - And I am not controlling them...!
"There must be a feeler" is a thought. The experience is: "There is no feeler, no I being the experiencer." What is true? Thought or experience?
Funny - I thought thoughts are experiences? - though they can not be felt, seen etc with the 5 senses...
But for example when the thought arose that produced panic- I could feel it physically as the body constricting. Short of breath.
What is true? Thought or experience?
I dont know if either of them are true now...

I will respond to the experiment later.
Thank you!


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