Enough of pain

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Redbeard
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Enough of pain

Postby Redbeard » Mon Mar 14, 2016 4:33 pm

What brings you to Liberation Unleashed?:
At the road's end are no choices left. I turn around and see - myself. Who's that I see? In memory are images of a freedom that is forgotten. Where is it now? This is my case on Liberation Unleashed - How do I find back to freedom?

What are you looking for? What do you expect from this?:
I wish that a guide can point in the direction where peace and happiness are. There is no point in going in circles and believe that you can find out, when you do not even know which direction to go. There is consciousness, but consciousness is mixed by the ego. I want to find the way out of the ego.

What is your background in terms of seeking and inquiry?:
My ego has read many books and tried many ways. But my true existence is forgotten along the way. It exists somewhere, because there is still awareness.

How ready are you to question your beliefs about who you are and see the truth no matter what? On a scale from one to ten (ten being most ready). : 10

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yuvi
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Re: Enough of pain

Postby yuvi » Tue Mar 15, 2016 12:59 pm

Hi Redbeard.. I can be your guide. I am from India and therefore we may have different time zones. Pls let me know if you are ok me being your guide.
YOU CANNOT KNOW YOURSELF. YOU CAN ONLY BE YOURSELF.

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Redbeard
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Re: Enough of pain

Postby Redbeard » Tue Mar 15, 2016 4:12 pm

Different time zones does not matter to me. Nice to know you.

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yuvi
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Re: Enough of pain

Postby yuvi » Wed Mar 16, 2016 5:30 am

thank you, RB (i hope you dont mind calling you 'RB')
Before we start, i'd like you to go through the below requirements of LU process:

1. You agree to post at least once a day. If you are busy, please inform me that you are busy so I know that you are working with me.
2. In general, the guide will ask the questions for you to respond to
3. Responses require your utmost honesty
4. Responses are best from direct experience (felt senses and observed thoughts). Longwinded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress.
5. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies and such for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily and essential meditation practice, it is fine to continue that.
6. Please learn to use the quote function; instructions are located in the link below this line:
http://liberationunleashed.com/nation/v ... ?f=4&t=660

Please let me know if you agree to all of them.
YOU CANNOT KNOW YOURSELF. YOU CAN ONLY BE YOURSELF.

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Redbeard
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Re: Enough of pain

Postby Redbeard » Wed Mar 16, 2016 7:18 am

I agree with what you say. Let's start.

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yuvi
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Re: Enough of pain

Postby yuvi » Wed Mar 16, 2016 8:28 am

Thank you, RB.

In this process, I will give you questions or pointers for you to “LOOK” and reply to me. “Looking” is not same as “thinking”. “Looking” means observing, with concentration, the experience right here and now. This is the Direct Experience (DE).

When looking, be sure to look at ‘thoughts’ as ‘thoughts’ (regardless of what thoughts says or images that appears mentally), and ‘sensations’ as ‘sensations’ (regardless of what thoughts labels these sensations). It is crucial that you are sincere in this process to notice how your imagined self comes into being.

For e.g. I may ask, what is the DE of writing an email to your friend. You may reply, “there is a sight of laptop in front of me and my hands typing letters. There is sensation in my fingers as I type.” I will now explain the difference between "Direct Experience" and "Words that comes out of thinking -or- thoughts" in the above statement using these abbreviations: T- Thought, DE-Direct Experience.

there is a sight (DE) of laptop (T) in front of (T) me (T) and my (T) hands (T) typing (T) letters(T) . There is sensation (DE) in my (T) fingers (T) as I (T) type (T).”
Shall we begin?

What is the direct experience of “I” now?
YOU CANNOT KNOW YOURSELF. YOU CAN ONLY BE YOURSELF.

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Redbeard
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Re: Enough of pain

Postby Redbeard » Wed Mar 16, 2016 8:47 am

There is an awareness of thought going on. "I" think those words I write now.

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yuvi
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Re: Enough of pain

Postby yuvi » Wed Mar 16, 2016 9:17 am

There is an awareness of thought going on.
Spot on!! So there is an 'experience' of thoughts. I am glad you are reporting the way i expected. let's look deeper.
"I" think those words I write now.
Is this really the case? Is there an "I" that "thinks" those words?
Or is there just an experience of 'a thought': "I think those words"

Take your time, look and then write to me.
YOU CANNOT KNOW YOURSELF. YOU CAN ONLY BE YOURSELF.

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Redbeard
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Re: Enough of pain

Postby Redbeard » Wed Mar 16, 2016 5:56 pm

There is an awareness of thought going on.
Spot on!! So there is an 'experience' of thoughts. I am glad you are reporting the way i expected. let's look deeper.
"I" think those words I write now.
Is this really the case? Is there an "I" that "thinks" those words?
Or is there just an experience of 'a thought': "I think those words"
My English is not so good, but I try to express myself as accurate as I can. Would the words and sentence sound very strange so it is probably my bad English that is the cause. Tell me if this is the case, I will do a new attempt.

Of course - there's no "I" who "thinks" these words. "I" = "a thought" – experienced.
"I" is composed of thoughts. Thoughts and memories forms what is perceived as "I".
"I" is thought and memories of - - - Identification.
Take your time, look and then write to me.[
Right now looking: Just experience of thoughts. Just experience of "I". But suddenly is everything "I", and "I" run the show – confusion???
/quote]

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yuvi
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Re: Enough of pain

Postby yuvi » Wed Mar 16, 2016 11:27 pm

It is ok, I am not a native English speaker either. But I hope you can understand me. I can understand you. Now you have written: "Thoughts and memories forms what is perceived as "I"." - these words comes from thoughts too. So there is an experience of a "thought" that described about "I". But all there is is an experience of a Thought". Can you see this?

You have also written: "Just experience of "I"." Now tell me more about this "experience of I" and how is it experienced in DE.
YOU CANNOT KNOW YOURSELF. YOU CAN ONLY BE YOURSELF.

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Redbeard
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Re: Enough of pain

Postby Redbeard » Thu Mar 17, 2016 9:02 am

It is ok, I am not a native English speaker either. But I hope you can understand me. I can understand you. Now you have written: "Thoughts and memories forms what is perceived as "I"." - these words comes from thoughts too. So there is an experience of a "thought" that described about "I".
But all there is is an experience of a Thought". Can you see this?
“I” is an experience of a thought “DE”. But - Suddenly I see myself as captured in thoughts "IT". And I do not know when it happened. I'm not sure what you mean by "all there is is an experience of a thought.

You have also written: "Just experience of "I"."
Now tell me more about this "experience of I" and how is it experienced in DE.
A sudden experience, something happens - see the "I" as a concept, a word, something abstract, a subject. Not really me. Experience is not ”I”. Experience is experience is awareness. This is the feeling like "I" is the walls defining experience.

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yuvi
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Re: Enough of pain

Postby yuvi » Thu Mar 17, 2016 12:21 pm

You wrote: Experience is awareness.

Well, let's suspend all thought descriptions of experience. Right now, there is experience. Period. 'Awareness' is a concept created by thought, it could be misleading. So let go of that word for now. There is experience of thought, sight, sensation, taste, smell. We are going to find out if there is a 'Redbeard' in the middle of these experiences.

You wrote: "This is the feeling like "I" is the walls defining experience."
Well, this is again a product of thought. There is an EXPERIENCE OF THOUGHT. This thought content is about "feeling like I", "walls defining experience" etc. Words comes from thoughts, see that clearly.

So, be very careful not to write what thought says. Failure to notice these subtle thoughts is what creates this illusion.

Let us take a look again:
When you say 'I', where does it point to? Where does the 'I' reside?
YOU CANNOT KNOW YOURSELF. YOU CAN ONLY BE YOURSELF.

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Redbeard
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Re: Enough of pain

Postby Redbeard » Thu Mar 17, 2016 1:50 pm

The definition of the word is difficult when I do not speak the language so well.
Ok, there is experience of thought, sight, sensation, taste, smell. – Clear.
There are thought and there is content in the thought. The thought are there, but the contents of the thought have no experience.
Is it an experience of "I"? It is an experience of a thought with the content "I".
When I say "I," then "I" is a thought with the content “I”. But no, there is no real experience of an "I".

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yuvi
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Re: Enough of pain

Postby yuvi » Thu Mar 17, 2016 3:48 pm

It is an experience of a thought with the content "I"
perfect! The content of the thoughts are just images and words. It is not "you", though all these years it was imagined to be. Thoughts may say, "of course, I exist. I am here, behind my eyes." "Of course, I am here thinking. let me thing of my school friend. Here he his. See, i can think thoughts."
This whole stream of language is just an experience of thought; just like an experience of a sound or sensation.
When I say "I," then "I" is a thought with the content “I”. But no, there is no real experience of an "I".
let's rephrase the question a bit. Instead of 'saying I', go to the direct experience and answer this:
1. Is there an "I" that resides somewhere in the head or the body?
2. Where do "you" exist?

report from DE. Focus, concentrate and look at "thoughts" as just "thoughts" without believing the content.
YOU CANNOT KNOW YOURSELF. YOU CAN ONLY BE YOURSELF.

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Redbeard
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Re: Enough of pain

Postby Redbeard » Thu Mar 17, 2016 9:54 pm

It is an experience of a thought with the content "I"
perfect! The content of the thoughts are just images and words. It is not "you", though all these years it was imagined to be. Thoughts may say, "of course, I exist. I am here, behind my eyes." "Of course, I am here thinking. let me thing of my school friend. Here he his. See, i can think thoughts."
This whole stream of language is just an experience of thought; just like an experience of a sound or sensation.
When I say "I," then "I" is a thought with the content “I”. But no, there is no real experience of an "I".
let's rephrase the question a bit. Instead of 'saying I', go to the direct experience and answer this:
1. Is there an "I" that resides somewhere in the head or the body?
There is no "I" to find in my arms, legs, stomach, lungs or the rest of the body. Nor somewhere in my eyes, ears or nose, or in the rest of my head.
2. Where do "you" exist?
Looking: Thoughts are. Thoughts come and go like the sounds that can be heard from the street. "I" exists as a thought. "I" is a thought. I exist as a thought!

report from DE. Focus, concentrate and look at "thoughts" as just "thoughts" without believing the content.


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