Awakening just removes the idea that "you" are a person.

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alexandrezulu
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Awakening just removes the idea that "you" are a person.

Postby alexandrezulu » Wed Feb 24, 2016 12:34 am

What brings you to Liberation Unleashed?:

A deep desire to recognize the truth about life.I´ve been seeking for this all of my life and I never found an answer. All that I have is too much knowledge that does not help any longer.

What are you looking for? What do you expect from this?:

I am looking for liberation. Liberation from "me". I want to live the life as it is, without the veil of the ego. I need help to find the way home. I am lost in too many concepts and I expect that the guides could help me on it.

What is your background in terms of seeking and inquiry?:

Well...I've been seeking for many ways, like: spiritism, budhism, meditation and non-dualism.

How ready are you to question your beliefs about who you are and see the truth no matter what? On a scale from one to ten (ten being most ready). : 10

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Nina45
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Re: Awakening just removes the idea that "you" are a person.

Postby Nina45 » Wed Feb 24, 2016 8:27 am

Welcome to Liberation Unleashed!

To start with .......

PLEASE READ THIS THE FOLLOWING THOROUGHLY and when responding please acknowledge that you have read this thoroughly and agree to the ground rules. Please be aware that the ground rules are not a suggestion, they do serve a purpose in the exploration of seeing through the illusory ‘self’.

My name is Nina, and I am happy to assist in exploring the illusion of the separate self. I can only point the way but you have to see it for yourself. That is why we are described as guides and not teachers.

I will ask questions and set you some exercises for you to make the realisation that there is no separate self. This will be the focus. There are no right or wrong answers and there is nobody judging you. You can't get this wrong.

Before we start, let’s get through the formalities first:
If you haven't already seen it, there is introductory info here, the disclaimer and a short video too.
http://www.liberationunleashed.com/
SOME GROUND RULES:-
1. Post at least once a day, if you cannot post, or need more time, let me know.
2. Be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.
3. ANSWER ONLY FROM ACTUAL EXPERIENCE (smell, taste, sound, sensation, colour and observed thoughts).
Read this article at http://liberationunleashed.com/articles ... xperience/ for more help on distinguishing what is actual/direct experience.) Longwinded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process.
4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily and essential meditation practice, it is fine to continue that.
5. Understand that I will be guiding you, rather than teaching you, and the more you put into this process the more you will get out of it.

TECHNICAL SUPPORT
- You can reply to this thread by pushing the purple-orange coloured button 'Post Reply" at the left bottom of this page.

- PLEASE LEARN to use the quote function. When replying to a question, please use the quote function to highlight the question being answered. Instructions are located in the link below :
http://liberationunleashed.com/nation/v ... ?f=4&t=660

- The site has a habit of logging you out while you write a reply, which can mean you lose what you have written. One way to avoid this is to write elsewhere (word document), then just paste the message into the 'reply' window when you're ready to send.

If you are happy to agree , we can get started.

Very best wishes

Nina

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alexandrezulu
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Re: Awakening just removes the idea that "you" are a person.

Postby alexandrezulu » Wed Feb 24, 2016 3:48 pm

Hi, Nina, I'm very happy to agree and ready to start.
Thank you to accept me to guide.

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alexandrezulu
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Re: Awakening just removes the idea that "you" are a person.

Postby alexandrezulu » Wed Feb 24, 2016 4:07 pm

I'm from Brazil, 47 years old, married and my english is not so good, but I think it's enough for the sake of our comunication.

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Nina45
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Re: Awakening just removes the idea that "you" are a person.

Postby Nina45 » Wed Feb 24, 2016 10:59 pm

It is my pleasure to guide you. What would you like me to call you?

I am sure that we will overcome any language difficulties. Please let me know if you think there is any miscommunication.

I am in England so am on GMT. I am sure time zones will not be too much of an issue either!

To get us started, could you have a look at the following 5 questions please?

By going through the gateless gate
1)How will Life change?

2)How will you change?

3)What will be different?

4)What is missing?

5)What would you like to achieve or obtain by this conversation?

When you are ready, please answer the questions one at a time. Highlight each of the questions using the QUOTE FUNCTION and write your answer under each of the questions.

Please remember that there are no right or wrong answers! These questions are to help me to guide you.

I look forward to your reply.

Best wishes

Nina

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alexandrezulu
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Re: Awakening just removes the idea that "you" are a person.

Postby alexandrezulu » Thu Feb 25, 2016 2:24 am

Hello, Nina, please call me Zulu. There is no miscommunication. I am very happy and ready to overcome all that arise along the way.
1)How will Life change?
Well, Nina…life is conceptual for me. Everything that I see, smell, taste, hear and touch is followed by a label, a concept…all of my actions, thoughts, feelings, perceptions and emotions are permeated by fear…fear to die, fear to be alone, fear of not respond expectations of others, fear of don’t be a nice person, fear of not be remembered…fear is everywhere. In this life that I mentioned there is always a wall in front and around me to protect myself from threats inside and outside. By going through the gateless gate this wall will fall and I can finally see the world as it really is. No fear, no concept…just a raw and direct experience of the world. That is the way life will change.
2)How will you change?
I won’t change…I will be seing as what I really am: another concept.
3)What will be different?
The difference will be that I won’t have the idea that I am in control of “my” life. Life just happens. This body-mind organism is just part of the whole…it’s not apart from that. The sense of separation will be vanished giving place to the whole.
4)What is missing?
I'm missing the point of jumping through the gateless gate.
5)What would you like to achieve or obtain by this conversation?
I just want to dissolve this contracted energy in my chest...I want to get rid of the sense of separation.

Thank you

Zulu

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Nina45
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Re: Awakening just removes the idea that "you" are a person.

Postby Nina45 » Thu Feb 25, 2016 7:07 pm

Hello Zulu,

Thanks for your reply. And thank you for using the quote function perfectly!

I want you to have a look at what arises for you when you read the following responses to your post.

Let me know where you feel fear, resistance, if you don't like something I have said, disappointment, anger, or any other feeling that arises.
1)How will Life change?

Well, Nina…life is conceptual for me. Everything that I see, smell, taste, hear and touch is followed by a label, a concept…all of my actions, thoughts, feelings, perceptions and emotions are permeated by fear…fear to die, fear to be alone, fear of not respond expectations of others, fear of don’t be a nice person, fear of not be remembered…fear is everywhere. In this life that I mentioned there is always a wall in front and around me to protect myself from threats inside and outside. By going through the gateless gate this wall will fall and I can finally see the world as it really is. No fear, no concept…just a raw and direct experience of the world. That is the way life will change.
There has never been a separate individual, so what exactly is it that can change?

There is no separate individual/entity who has thoughts, feelings, perceptions, emotions and no individual who can suffer ‘fear’.
The label ‘fear’ is the actual experience of thought and is not the actual experience of fear.

All there is and has ever been is raw experience of sound, smell, taste, sensation and image/colour overlayed with thought (concepts).
2)How will you change?
I won’t change…I will be seing as what I really am: another concept.
You are not a concept.
There is no you to be anything and the is no you to be nothing.
There was no you in the first place.
It's all very simple.
3)What will be different?
The difference will be that I won’t have the idea that I am in control of “my” life. Life just happens. This body-mind organism is just part of the whole…it’s not apart from that. The sense of separation will be vanished giving place to the whole.
Life isn’t happening to or for anyone/anything.
There never has been anyone/anything/ any entity that has been in control of anything.
There is nothing at all to be in control of life.
There is no "body-mind organism".
5)What would you like to achieve or obtain by this conversation?
I just want to dissolve this contracted energy in my chest...I want to get rid of the sense of separation.
“I want to get rid of the sense of separation” is just a thought.
Thoughts are absolutely meaningless.
There is nothing in control of thoughts.

Ok Zulu! Let me know how you respond to the above responses, using the quote function as you did before.

I look forward to your reply.

Best wishes

Nina

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alexandrezulu
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Re: Awakening just removes the idea that "you" are a person.

Postby alexandrezulu » Fri Feb 26, 2016 1:53 pm

Let me know where you feel fear, resistance, if you don't like something I have said, disappointment, anger, or any other feeling that arises.


There has never been a separate individual, so what exactly is it that can change?
Despite there is no separate individual, the feeling is here. I fell separateness...it arises here. And is this sense that thinks that can change anything or change itself. This illusory sense brings the fear...it wants to perpetuate itself and creates tension and resistance. Your words reverberate here as something real and true, but I stil can't see it in direct experience.
There is no separate individual/entity who has thoughts, feelings, perceptions, emotions and no individual who can suffer ‘fear’.
But thoughts, feelings, perceptions and emotions arises every moment and they are identified as "mine". The thought "I" arises and caught them.
The label ‘fear’ is the actual experience of thought and is not the actual experience of fear.
So, what is the actual experience of fear? What is that energy? I can feel it vibrating in the chest. An oppressive power that pushes me down and gives me the sense of location and separateness.
All there is and has ever been is raw experience of sound, smell, taste, sensation and image/colour overlayed with thought (concepts).
And how can it be seen without the interference of thoughts? Specially the "I" thought that identifies itself with other arising thoughts?
You are not a concept.
There is no you to be anything and the is no you to be nothing.
There was no you in the first place.
It's all very simple.
So, What am I? What is it where everything arises? Why emerge this sense of separation? How to get rid of it?
The funny thing is that who wants to get rid of it is the sense of separation itself. It's a suicidal goal. At this point my mind is exploding. I think there is no way out. It's hopeless.

Life isn’t happening to or for anyone/anything.
There never has been anyone/anything/ any entity that has been in control of anything.
There is nothing at all to be in control of life.
There is no "body-mind organism".
Here fear arises...and, if I let everything go...what happens then? No control at all.
At this moment the mind is trying to grasp something ungraspable. Because it can't go beyond here.

“I want to get rid of the sense of separation” is just a thought.
Thoughts are absolutely meaningless.
There is nothing in control of thoughts.
So, there is no sense of separation at all...just thoughts.
There is no difference if the sense of separation is here or not.
There is no need to try to get rid of it.
If it's here is here...if it's not here it's not.

It's a whole new world unfolding before me...

Please, Nina, guide me at the entrance of this new address...

Everything is very new and fresh...

Thank you

Zulu

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Re: Awakening just removes the idea that "you" are a person.

Postby Nina45 » Fri Feb 26, 2016 11:16 pm

Hi Zulu,

Thanks for your honest replies to the questions.

Shall we LOOK at this "sense of separation" that you mention in more detail?

Looking isn’t difficult. It doesn’t require any special skills!
‘Looking” is just plain looking to what is here. When you loose your car keys you have to look everywhere for them! That is looking.
Looking is noticing sound, taste, smell, sensation and colours (images) to see what is readily available.
Looking is noticing thought/s - but it NOT thinking.
Thoughts tend to pull you away from looking directly BECAUSE, by directly looking into what you experience, you will inevitably unveil the trick THOUGHTS play in creating the illusion of an "I".
I feel separateness...it arises here.
LOOK at this SENSE of separation very-very thoroughly. Not by thinking about it, but by FEELING it.
Keep the focus of attention on the sense of separation and inquire…..

Does the sense of separation have a location?
Does the sense of separation have a shape or a size?
Does the sense of separation tell or communicate anything?
If the answer is yes, how does the sense do this exactly?
Does the sense of separation has any characteristics or attributes?
What is the sense of separation ‘made of’? An image? Sound? Taste? Smell? Sensation? Thought?

Please answer all these questions using the quote function.
So, what is the actual experience of fear? What is that energy? I can feel it vibrating in the chest. An oppressive power that pushes me down and gives me the sense of location and separateness.
The label "fear" is the actual experience of thought and not the AE of fear
The sensation labelled 'fear' is the actual experience of sensation and not the AE of fear

Close your eyes and put the tip of a finger against your chest. Drop all thoughts/ideas and mental images of what a 'chest' is and what is actually there? Look carefully.
Here fear arises...and, if I let everything go...what happens then? No control at all.
There has never been a separate individual who has ever had control or that can "let everything go". There is nothing to let go of!
Since 'you' have never been in control what is it that could happen?


Please answer all questions using the quote function!

Good luck with LOOKING!

Nina

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Re: Awakening just removes the idea that "you" are a person.

Postby alexandrezulu » Sat Feb 27, 2016 3:46 pm

Hi, Nina, I'm back
Shall we LOOK at this "sense of separation" that you mention in more detail?
Ok, let's do it !!
Does the sense of separation have a location?
I feel like a contracted energy in the chest.
Does the sense of separation have a shape or a size?
No shape, no size. Just energy vibrating from the chest to the whole body.
Does the sense of separation tell or communicate anything?
Yes
If the answer is yes, how does the sense do this exactly?
It shows me an outside world , which I have to manage, control, handle…I’m sitting in front of a tv and the images come to my eyes…the sounds of a fan come to my ears… I can feel the pressure of my body on the couch. I see many objects around me and I feel separated from them.
Does the sense of separation has any characteristics or attributes?
It is an energy dense, powerful , heavy ( feel the weight of it on my forehead and on my chest ) and seems inexhaustible.
What is the sense of separation ‘made of’? An image? Sound? Taste? Smell? Sensation? Thought?
It’s a sensation. I 'm noticing that the effort is more to keep that sensation than to get rid of it. I find myself trying to keep it in various ways.
The label "fear" is the actual experience of thought and not the AE of fear
The sensation labelled 'fear' is the actual experience of sensation and not the AE of fear
So, "fear" doesn't exist in reality. It's just a thought and a sensation labeled as "fear". In fact , fear, feelings and thoughts are just labels and not the actual experience. The actual experience doesn't need labels. It is as it is.

Close your eyes and put the tip of a finger against your chest. Drop all thoughts/ideas and mental images of what a 'chest' is and what is actually there? Look carefully.
There is Just energy vibrating.
Since 'you' have never been in control what is it that could happen?
Life just keeps going on.

Ok, Nina, that's all

Thanks for the questions. They are pushing me very hard towards truth.

Best wishes

Zulu

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Re: Awakening just removes the idea that "you" are a person.

Postby Nina45 » Sun Feb 28, 2016 10:21 am

Hi Zulu!

Thanks for your answers about the "sense of separation". I'm going to ask you to LOOK again as we go through your answers (try not to think about anything .... just look at the sensations and thoughts that arise).
I feel like a contracted energy in the chest.

LOOK at the sensation again.
Does the sensation itself tell you that it is "contracted energy"?
Or, is there a THOUGHT that tells you there is "conrtacted energy"?

LOOK at the "chest".
What is "chest" in actual experience?
Chest is the actual experience (AE) of thought.

Sensation is the AE of sensation
AND could the thought "contracted energy" be the actual experience of thought?

Does the sense of separation have a shape or a size?
No shape, no size. Just energy vibrating from the chest to the whole body.

LOOK at the actual experience of sensation.

Again. Can you see that "chest", in actual experience, is a thought label?
Is "energy", in actual experience, a thought label?
Is "vibrating", in actual experience, a thought label?

(There are two forms of thought: there is the language of spoken/written thought and there are thought images/colour/shape)
Does the sense of separation tell or communicate anything?
Yes

Does the sensation talk?

Is it the sensation that is telling the story you have written below or is it a thought story?
It shows me an outside world , which I have to manage, control, handle…I’m sitting in front of a tv and the images come to my eyes…the sounds of a fan come to my ears… I can feel the pressure of my body on the couch. I see many objects around me and I feel separated from them.

Does the sensation know about the thought story? Are sensations aware of thoughts or thought stories?
Does the sense of separation have any characteristics or attributes?

It is an energy dense, powerful , heavy ( feel the weight of it on my forehead and on my chest ) and seems inexhaustible.
Do the sensations KNOW anything about being "inexhaustable?.

Is "inexhaustable" a thought label?
Is "chest" a thought label?
Is "forehead" a thought label?

Does sensation know anything at all about thought?
What is the sense of separation ‘made of’? An image? Sound? Taste? Smell? Sensation? Thought?
It’s a sensation. I 'm noticing that the effort is more to keep that sensation than to get rid of it. I find myself trying to keep it in various ways.
Stories about sensations certainly SEEM to "keep" sensations.

But - in actual experience - does the sensation know anything about the thoughts?
Does sensation know anything about the story of separation?
The label "fear" is the actual experience of thought and not the AE of fear
The sensation labelled 'fear' is the actual experience of sensation and not the AE of fear
So, "fear" doesn't exist in reality. It's just a thought and a sensation labeled as "fear". In fact , fear, feelings and thoughts are just labels and not the actual experience. The actual experience doesn't need labels. It is as it is.
YES!
However ....the face value of thoughts are actual experience.
What the thoughts are ABOUT (the content) is story.
Close your eyes and put the tip of a finger against your chest. Drop all thoughts/ideas and mental images of what a 'chest' is and what is actually there? Look carefully.
There is Just energy vibrating.

LOOK again ....

Does the sensation in anyway suggest that it is "vibrating energy"?
.....Or is 'vibrating energy' actual experience of a thought?


(Could you answer the questions using the quote function please? Thank you!)

Thank you for your work with this Zulu.

Very best wishes

Nina

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Re: Awakening just removes the idea that "you" are a person.

Postby alexandrezulu » Sun Feb 28, 2016 6:08 pm

Hi, Nina

Here I'm again

I'm working hard all day long to follow your guidance

I feel like a contracted energy in the chest.
LOOK at the sensation again.
Does the sensation itself tell you that it is "contracted energy"?
Or, is there a THOUGHT that tells you there is "conrtacted energy"?
Oh, UAU !! Actually, it is just a thought...and another tought comes that tells me that it's like a "sense of location". But it's another label. The AE has no label...no "sense of location", no "contracted energy"...it's just what it's.

LOOK at the "chest".
What is "chest" in actual experience?
Chest is the actual experience (AE) of thought.

Sensation is the AE of sensation
AND could the thought "contracted energy" be the actual experience of thought?
Exactly !! The THOUGHT "contracted energy" IS the AE of a THOUGHT (the thought is real, its content- contractred energy- no). Actually, there is no "chest" and no "contracted energy" when I LOOK direct to it; what remains is ALIVENESS.

LOOK at the actual experience of sensation.

Again. Can you see that "chest", in actual experience, is a thought label?
Is "energy", in actual experience, a thought label?
Is "vibrating", in actual experience, a thought label?

(There are two forms of thought: there is the language of spoken/written thought and there are thought images/colour/shape)
At this point I closed my eyes to LOOK directly to the experience, to feel your questions...NOTHING was left...just a void (even VOID is a thought label)...NO THING. Pure aliveness. How to put in words what is wordless?
I'll try to say what is going on here right now.
I'm on the edge of a cliff...and it's terrifying and exciting at the same time.
I don't know where I'm going and I don't care...the unknown is welcome...
Does the sense of separation tell or communicate anything?
Yes

Does the sensation talk?

Is it the sensation that is telling the story you have written below or is it a thought story?
It shows me an outside world , which I have to manage, control, handle…I’m sitting in front of a tv and the images come to my eyes…the sounds of a fan come to my ears… I can feel the pressure of my body on the couch. I see many objects around me and I feel separated from them.
NOw I see that it's just a thought story. Thougts telling stories about thoughts. None of that is real but thoughts.
They don't resist to direct experience.

Does the sensation know about the thought story? Are sensations aware of thoughts or thought stories?
No, it doesn't. No, they aren't. They are just sensations...no words, no labels, no thoughts, no stories...
Does the sense of separation have any characteristics or attributes?
It is an energy dense, powerful , heavy ( feel the weight of it on my forehead and on my chest ) and seems inexhaustible.
Do the sensations KNOW anything about being "inexhaustable?
No, the sensations doesn't know anything at all. They are just there..."inexhaustable" is just a label to another tought.
Is "inexhaustable" a thought label?
Is "chest" a thought label?
Is "forehead" a thought label?
Yes...for the three questions. I've lived in a conceptual world. I'm still living...but now I can see the difference.
Does sensation know anything at all about thought?
No, it doesn't. The sensations are there...you can put the label you want on it, but it doesn't know anything about the labels you're putting.
But - in actual experience - does the sensation know anything about the thoughts?
Does sensation know anything about the story of separation?
No, it doesn't.
YES!
However ....the face value of thoughts are actual experience.
What the thoughts are ABOUT (the content) is story.
That's an incredible discovery for me...to separe the face value of thoughts (AE) and their contents (story).

LOOK again ....

Does the sensation in anyway suggest that it is "vibrating energy"?
.....Or is 'vibrating energy' actual experience of a thought?
Well...when I LOOK there is a sensation (AE)...then arises the tought label "energy" associated to another thougt label "vibrating" and then I call these associated thoughts labels as "sense of separation" (another tought label).
So, there are two AE: the sensation and the associated thoughts labels that I'm used to call "sense of separation".
(Could you answer the questions using the quote function please? Thank you!)
I thought I was using it right...sorry, Nina.

NIna, thank you for your kindness and patience with me.

I'll keep trying to follow your tips and instructions in the best way I can. I've never had inquired myself so deeply and sometimes it's very difficul to put in words what I'm feeling...sorry for that, Nina.

That's all for while

Thanks, Nina

Zulu

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Re: Awakening just removes the idea that "you" are a person.

Postby Nina45 » Mon Feb 29, 2016 11:07 am

Hi Zulu,

Fantastic looking!
Oh, UAU !! Actually, it is just a thought...and another tought comes that tells me that it's like a "sense of location". But it's another label. The AE has no label...no "sense of location", no "contracted energy"...it's just what it's.
Great clarity!

Are you clear that sensation is the actual experience (AE) of sensation?
The THOUGHT "contracted energy" IS the AE of a THOUGHT (the thought is real, its content- contractred energy- no). Actually, there is no "chest" and no "contracted energy" when I LOOK direct to it; what remains is ALIVENESS.
Lovely discovery!

Are you clear that thought is the actual experience (AE) of thought?
And are you clear that the content of thought is not actual experience (AE)?
No, the sensations doesn't know anything at all. They are just there..."inexhaustable" is just a label to another tought.
Another great discovery!

Are you clear that sensations know NOTHING at all about thought?
At this point I closed my eyes to LOOK directly to the experience, to feel your questions...NOTHING was left...just a void (even VOID is a thought label)...NO THING. Pure aliveness. How to put in words what is wordless?
Really great looking!

Shall we do some more LOOKING to be really really clear about actual experience (AE)?

If you were in a desert, dying of thirst, could you quench your thirst just by thinking about water (thoughts) or would you need to drink ‘real’ water?

Let’s say I’m with you in the desert and offer you two options:

(1) In my left hand there is a piece of paper with the word ‘water’ written on it, and
(2) in my right hand there is a bottle of water.

Which one would you choose to quench your thirst, the label or the water?

So, can the label ‘water’, which is actual experience (AE) of thought, quench your thirst?

Labels are ‘real’ as appearing thoughts (like the word ‘water’ on the piece of paper) but its ‘content’, what the thought is ABOUT (the story ABOUT water) is not ‘real’ and is NOT the AE of ‘content’ (‘water’).

Can you see this?
Is this clear?


Here's another exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. This is to help become familiar with actual experience.

Label each experience simply image/colour, sound, smell, taste, sensation or thought.

So as you become aware of:
Seeing a tree,simply = image/colour
Smelling the coffee = smell,
Feel the wind on your face = sensation.
Tasting the toothpaste on your toothbrush = taste
Hearing a car drive by = sound
Thought about work = thought. (Thoughts can be words and mental images)

Just break down all experiences into these categories (which are all actual experience) and report back how you go.


(Thank you for using the quote function PERFECTLY Zulu!
I will not remind you anymore.)

Have fun with the exercises!

All the very best wishes to you

Nina

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Re: Awakening just removes the idea that "you" are a person.

Postby alexandrezulu » Tue Mar 01, 2016 12:45 am

Hi, Nina

Let's rock !!
Are you clear that sensation is the actual experience (AE) of sensation?
Yeah, I'm very clear about that. And I'm clear that the term "sensation" is just a label too. What I really feel has no label at all. It's what it's. It's just there.
Are you clear that thought is the actual experience (AE) of thought?
And are you clear that the content of thought is not actual experience (AE)?
I'm very clear about that too. The content of a thought is just another tought.

So, we have an AE of a THOUGHT (a cup of water, for example).
A "cup of water" is the content of the tought (this tought is the primary AE).
The content of a tought is another tought (the secondary AE, so to speak).
So, we are talking here about two AE. The THOUGHT and "cup of water".
But, the real experience has no name at all.
I don't know if I made myself clear.
Are you clear that sensations know NOTHING at all about thought?
I'm very clear about that too. And to be clear, "sensations" is another label and it's not the real experience, which has no name.
Shall we do some more LOOKING to be really really clear about actual experience (AE)?
Ok, let's do it !!
If you were in a desert, dying of thirst, could you quench your thirst just by thinking about water (thoughts) or would you need to drink ‘real’ water?
In that case, I'd to drink "real" water. No doubt about it.
Let’s say I’m with you in the desert and offer you two options:

(1) In my left hand there is a piece of paper with the word ‘water’ written on it, and
(2) in my right hand there is a bottle of water.

Which one would you choose to quench your thirst, the label or the water?
I would choose your right hand with the bottle of water.
LOOKING very closely, everything that you said in the options are just thought labels.
"left hand", "right hand", "piece of paper", "word", "water", "bottle"...
The real experince has no label at all. We couldn't put words on it. Just LIVE the experience. THIS is IT.
So, can the label ‘water’, which is actual experience (AE) of thought, quench your thirst?
No way. An actual experience of thought can't quench my thrist.
"A bottle of water" is a tought label but the "water" that this thought is referring to can quench my thrist.
Not the label "water" but THAT which this label is pointing to.
Labels are ‘real’ as appearing thoughts (like the word ‘water’ on the piece of paper) but its ‘content’, what the thought is ABOUT (the story ABOUT water) is not ‘real’ and is NOT the AE of ‘content’ (‘water’).

Can you see this?
Is this clear?
Crystal clear, Nina !!

Here's another exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. This is to help become familiar with actual experience.

Label each experience simply image/colour, sound, smell, taste, sensation or thought.

So as you become aware of:
Seeing a tree,simply = image/colour
Smelling the coffee = smell,
Feel the wind on your face = sensation.
Tasting the toothpaste on your toothbrush = taste
Hearing a car drive by = sound
Thought about work = thought. (Thoughts can be words and mental images)

Just break down all experiences into these categories (which are all actual experience) and report back how you go.
Fantastic experience, Nina !!

I was watching the takeoff of an airplane when suddenly I remembered the exercise and I fixed the attention only on the sound produced by the aircraft. Suddenly there was no aircraft but only the sound. Sound, image and colour.
There was no interpretation, no label; just the AE. Even the tought labels "sound", "colour" and "image" were vanished. What remained was "experiencing".
The same occurred with many other situations, like seeing a tree, a dog, a car, drinking coffee...
I'll keep doing this exercise and will keep you posted about them.

That's it, NIna

I'll wait for your comments

Thank you
Zulu

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Nina45
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Re: Awakening just removes the idea that "you" are a person.

Postby Nina45 » Tue Mar 01, 2016 3:39 pm

Hi again Zulu,

Fabulous LOOKing!
Are you clear that sensation is the actual experience (AE) of sensation?

Yeah, I'm very clear about that. And I'm clear that the term "sensation" is just a label too. What I really feel has no label at all. It's what it's. It's just there. Shall we do some more LOOKING?
Yes! The label "sensation" is just a label and what IS...IS!

And the water exercise:
I would choose your right hand with the bottle of water.
LOOKING very closely, everything that you said in the options are just thought labels.
"left hand", "right hand", "piece of paper", "word", "water", "bottle"...
The real experince has no label at all. We couldn't put words on it. Just LIVE the experience. THIS is IT.
Great LOOKING!
Yes, they are all just labels but labels are the actual experience (AE) of thought.

And what exactly is it that could "LIVE the experience"? Describe that someone/something to me who can "LIVE the experience".

I don't quite understand what you mean by "the real experience has no label at all". Could you tell me what you mean please?

And the AE exercise:
I was watching the takeoff of an airplane when suddenly I remembered the exercise and I fixed the attention only on the sound produced by the aircraft. Suddenly there was no aircraft but only the sound. Sound, image and colour.
There was no interpretation, no label; just the AE. Even the tought labels "sound", "colour" and "image" were vanished. What remained was "experiencing".
Thanks for trying the exercise Zulu! It is great that so much came from it.
Colour and image are one and the same. Actually there are no images...only colour. It is thought that labels colour into different shapes and images.
So what remained was the raw experience of sound.

Can a dividing line between "hear-er" and what is heard be found?
So, we have an AE of a THOUGHT (a cup of water, for example).
A "cup of water" is the content of the tought (this tought is the primary AE).
The content of a tought is another tought (the secondary AE, so to speak).
So, we are talking here about two AE. The THOUGHT and "cup of water".
But, the real experience has no name at all.
I don't know if I made myself clear.
Not quite!

The thought/label "cup of water" is AE of thought and not AE of a cup of water.
The image labelled "cup of water" is AE of image and not the AE of a cup of water.

Image is always the AE of image, whether it is a "cup of water" in your hand or a thought image "cup of water".

The label “cup of water” points to content, which is FICTION – it is a thought story.

There is no such thing as a cup of water. What is actually there is just the actual experience of thought + image.

Is this clear?

The AE of watching the "aircraft" is a good example,
Suddenly there was no aircraft but only the sound. Sound, image and colour.
And sound , colour and thought are all actual experience (AE) but what the label "aircraft" points to is fiction.

Try the AE exercise again today and report back!

Have fun with it!

Best wishes

Nina


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