Getting lighter

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cuci
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Getting lighter

Postby cuci » Fri Feb 05, 2016 12:19 pm

What brings you to Liberation Unleashed?:
The yearning to be in full presence of the moment, the yearning to let go of the burdens created by fears of future and feelings from the past (known or unknown), the yearning to be able to have joy in everything i do... the yearning to "just be" and feel "light" without loads... like a feather.. or underwater.. just do the things, live the life without any emotions, feelings, attached...

What are you looking for? What do you expect from this:

Anything that may reduce or remove the noise and dust from whatever i'm experiencing... pointers or reminders to dissolve fog away... to have a lighter heart...

What is your background in terms of seeking and inquiry?:
It's been whichever direction that feels like providing answers.. no disciplinary seeking.

Bananafish
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Re: Getting lighter

Postby Bananafish » Fri Feb 05, 2016 1:46 pm

Hi cuci!

Great to to have you here at the LU forum.
I would be more than glad to help you. :)

Here, guides help people to viscerally (not just intellectually)
understand that there is no separate, concrete entity which
we call "I," "me," or "self." This is the primary issue we deal with.

Once you see this and understand it with your whole being,
the "fog" might dissolve right away, but most of the time, not all of them
disappear in an instant. The difference, however, is that
with the understanding, for the first time you can deal with that
"dust" in an authentic way. As you continue, no much "noise" will bother any more.
Emotions and feelings pop out, then disappear, and then pop out ... thats it.


Before we start, let me show you some tips to make our
dialogue smooth and effective:

1. Please write as much as you can; I would advise you to
write at least once a day, in order to build momentum.
I might sometimes be too busy to give you a reply,
but even then, please write something that reports how you're
doing.

2. Please set aside all the teachings you've learned from books, retreats,
youtube, and so on, for the sake of not bringing bias to what we'll do
during our conversation.

3. Please be 100% honest with your answers ... always.
Don't choose an answer that you think might be "right."
If you are stuck with any issue, we can always take a close
look at it.


If you're ready, we can start!

Looking forward to your reply, cuci. :)

Bananafish

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cuci
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Re: Getting lighter

Postby cuci » Fri Feb 05, 2016 2:24 pm

Thank you Bananafish for being my guide and thank you for the tips...

I'm so excited to start...

:)

Bananafish
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Re: Getting lighter

Postby Bananafish » Fri Feb 05, 2016 2:34 pm

Great!

Oh, forgot to tell you that the time here is JST (Japan Standard Time)
UTC/GMT +9 hours. I was just thinking about going to bed, but
I wanted to ask you my first question before doing so. Excited! :)


Let's begin with the question below.

When you say "I am cuci," what does that word 'I' refer to?"


The basic process of our dialogue is; I ask, you look, and you answer.
So, please look for the thing that the word "I" refer to, and report it to me.

See you tomorrow!

Bananafish

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cuci
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Re: Getting lighter

Postby cuci » Sat Feb 06, 2016 2:45 pm

Thank you Bananafish...

I'll try to express as much as I can...

When "I" comes.. emotionally it directs me to a feeling of many accumulated definitions, shoulds, ways of thinking and believing... it's like an entity on its own, which as a person i'm totally unaware how all these beliefs accumulated in time...

in other words...

when I say "I am cuci", the "I" refers to "I like this or that" -and "I" should like this or that because this is how "cuci" should be... it is a collection of definitions or desires-some stuck on me as personality since childhood because of reasons unknown- "I shouldn't be wearing pink shoes because I like black" (when and how I decided that I like black, why there is a certain label that I should like black and recently I realized pink sparks so much joy in me :) )

but most of the time the "I" is surrounded by resistance to what is.. "I don't want this" or "I don't want to do this" or "I can't do this" or "It is very difficult to do this" or "I should be doing something else" :)

and because of this, there is a huge gap between what is idealized by "I" and what actually happens.. I think this causes a lot of emotional frustration that hinders the flow of what is happening..

lots of love

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cuci
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Re: Getting lighter

Postby cuci » Sat Feb 06, 2016 2:50 pm

and writing, reflecting on this brought a feeling of emptiness...

it has a grounding feeling :)

Bananafish
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Re: Getting lighter

Postby Bananafish » Sat Feb 06, 2016 3:09 pm

Hi there!

I'll be quoting your reply and putting comments, or asking another question. :)

I read everything you write, so, even if I don't quote a portion of
what you wrote, please don't think that I neglected them.
Part of my role is to make the focus sharp, and to do it, we will have to
choose which part of conversation to focus on ...

As the quote function in this site is helpful, if you aren't familiar with it yet,
please play with it a bit. If anything is unclear, please ask me.

when I say "I am cuci", the "I" refers to "I like this or that" -and "I" should like this or that because this is how "cuci" should be... it is a collection of definitions or desires-some stuck on me as personality since childhood because of reasons unknown-
Let's LOOK further ...

When you say "Cuci should be 〜"
Where is that "Cuci" in direct experience ... i.e. here and now, as you
FEEL it and not think ABOUT it?


Is it a thought, or anything other than that?
Again, please don't think about it, but actually LOOK and report it.


but most of the time the "I" is surrounded by resistance to what is ..
Who is it that resists? Is it also the "I?" Does the I resist another "I," or does resistance
just happen, without a subject that does the resisting?


and because of this, there is a huge gap between what is idealized by "I" and what actually happens..
I think this causes a lot of emotional frustration that hinders the flow of what is happening..
Yes, yes ... so you feel that there's something wrong for a gap to
exist between the idealised "I" and the actual experience.

Then, what is this "I" that exists as an ideal?
Can you define it again, without using the word ideal?

Bananafish
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Re: Getting lighter

Postby Bananafish » Sat Feb 06, 2016 3:10 pm

and writing, reflecting on this brought a feeling of emptiness...

it has a grounding feeling :)
Good to hear that!
Keep the good work!

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cuci
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Re: Getting lighter

Postby cuci » Sun Feb 07, 2016 8:32 pm

Dear Bananafish...

I'll try to use the quotes to answer the questions... as per your first question...
When you say "Cuci should be 〜"
Where is that "Cuci" in direct experience ... i.e. here and now, as you
FEEL it and not think ABOUT it?

Is it a thought, or anything other than that?
It is an idea, like a label attached on this particular physical form, kind of a software defining the ways how this organism should work... direct experience; i'm not sure if i had any experience of it, i'm trying to recall the feeling of being just an instrument to breathing in meditation.. hope i can be clear about this feeling... it's like the breathing happening on its own and this body is just an instrument to it... and if that can be direct experience, when i had brief accounts of it, the feeling of "i" was transparent. it didn't dissolve away, it was aside but transparent... so where is "cuci" in this experience, aside and transparent :) i hope this makes sense to you :)

Who is it that resists? Is it also the "I?" Does the I resist another "I," or does resistance
just happen, without a subject that does the resisting?


This is a difficult question :) i'm not even sure i can grasp the meaning...
resistance doesn't happen by itself.. i think there is a subject :) when i try to go deep in the feeling of resistance, i find its source as the "i"..."i" resists...
Yes, yes ... so you feel that there's something wrong for a gap to
exist between the idealised "I" and the actual experience.

Then, what is this "I" that exists as an ideal?
Can you define it again, without using the word ideal?
"i" idealizes certain circumstances contrary to what is experienced... it represents an ideal or an idealized version...

in this context...the question to your answer is...
it is an idea...

:)

lots of love

Bananafish
Posts: 2812
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:29 pm
Location: Japan
Contact:

Re: Getting lighter

Postby Bananafish » Mon Feb 08, 2016 12:21 pm

Hi cuci. :)
It is an idea, like a label attached on this particular physical form, kind of a software defining the ways how this organism should work...
Ok, "cuci" is an idea.
Now, can you tell where that idea exists?

Can you tell me the exact place where the idea "cuci" exists?

direct experience; i'm not sure if i had any experience of it, i'm trying to recall the feeling of being just an instrument to breathing in meditation.. hope i can be clear about this feeling... it's like the breathing happening on its own and this body is just an instrument to it... and if that can be direct experience, when i had brief accounts of it, the feeling of "i" was transparent. it didn't dissolve away, it was aside but transparent... so where is "cuci" in this experience, aside and transparent :) i hope this makes sense to you :)

Wonderful!

Direct experience is not a special state or some kind of
mystical experience. It is the ordinary experience
of seeing, hearing, smelling, touching, etc, HERE AND NOW.


As you provided the focus, let's focus on the
experience of breathing.

Now, sit on a chair (or on the floor), with your back straight.
Breathing now ... not your memory of meditation, but
the direct experience of air going into the nose, abdomen moving,
HERE and NOW.


Now, LOOK.


As breathing occurs, who is it that doing the breathing?

Are "you" breathing?

What is the subject?
Is there any single and concrete subject?


i think there is a subject :) when i try to go deep in the feeling of resistance, i find its source as the "i"..."i" resists...
Don't think, LOOK.




Where does this "I" exist?

Which is the exact single place where this "I" exists?


in this context...the question to your answer is...
it is an idea...
Then, what can an idea do?
Isn't it strange to say "An idea walked to me and said hello."?

Can an idea be a subject of any act?

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cuci
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Re: Getting lighter

Postby cuci » Tue Feb 09, 2016 3:23 pm

Dear Bananafish :)

Wonderful...
Can you tell me the exact place where the idea "cuci" exists?
i can't tell..really... i don't know where it comes from... it must be originating in my brain circuit and neural wiring somewhere :) but i can't really tell... it hangs in the air...
As breathing occurs, who is it that doing the breathing?

Are "you" breathing?

What is the subject?
Is there any single and concrete subject?
:) the breathing happens on its own, "i" seems to be breathing but really breathing happens by itself, like the wind blows by itself... so there is no real subject... the breathing and the moving and everything else seems to happen by itself...

but i have a question here... when concentration slips away and the mind gets caught in one of the stream of thoughts...the direct experience gets lost...the fog comes in again :) how to find way back?
Where does this "I" exist?

Which is the exact single place where this "I" exists?
i might disappoint you with this... but i can't find it really... it is just so abstract, elusive and like a thought. it is not this body, or the thoughts, it is another thought.. but where it exists? only in thought???
Then, what can an idea do?
Isn't it strange to say "An idea walked to me and said hello."?

Can an idea be a subject of any act?
:) an idea can't be the subject of any act, it can neither be successful nor unsuccessful, it can neither be good nor bad. if there is no subject to any action, there is no object or objectives??? so nothing is done by "me", or "i" achieves nothing... it happens on its own.

and that feels quite ok :)

lots of love

Bananafish
Posts: 2812
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:29 pm
Location: Japan
Contact:

Re: Getting lighter

Postby Bananafish » Wed Feb 10, 2016 11:36 am

Dear cuci.
i can't tell..really... i don't know where it comes from... it must be originating in my brain circuit and neural wiring somewhere :) but i can't really tell... it hangs in the air...
Does "cuci" exist in any form other than a word, or thought?
LOOK at every possibility except the above two that you think cuci exists as.


:) the breathing happens on its own, "i" seems to be breathing but really breathing happens by itself, like the wind blows by itself... so there is no real subject... the breathing and the moving and everything else seems to happen by itself...
Beautifully said ...

but i have a question here... when concentration slips away and the mind gets caught in one of the stream of thoughts...the direct experience gets lost...the fog comes in again :) how to find way back?
Who concentrates?

Who is caught in thoughts?

Who loses direct experience?

Who goes back to it?


Is there a self that does these things?
If so, where is it?


i might disappoint you with this... but i can't find it really... it is just so abstract, elusive and like a thought. it is not this body, or the thoughts, it is another thought.. but where it exists? only in thought???
On the contrary, I'm very much pleased to hear your answer! :)

Take a LOOK yourself:

Does the "I" exist at all, anywhere, in any form other than the thought "I"?
Try to find it.

:) an idea can't be the subject of any act, it can neither be successful nor unsuccessful, it can neither be good nor bad. if there is no subject to any action, there is no object or objectives??? so nothing is done by "me", or "i" achieves nothing... it happens on its own.
Is that an intellectual understanding, or not?

Regards,

Bananafish

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cuci
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Re: Getting lighter

Postby cuci » Wed Feb 10, 2016 12:35 pm

Dear Bananafish,

so thrilled to get your answer...
i'll write you longer and answer all your questions but before that, this is a quick note. it's a completely intellectual understanding. i can comprehend the meaning of it, that the "i" is illusory, i get the implications, it doesn't come emotionally.

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cuci
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Re: Getting lighter

Postby cuci » Sat Feb 13, 2016 9:47 pm

Dear Bananafish,

Has been a busy week and still a busy weekend... i will write you tomorrow :)

lots of love

Bananafish
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Re: Getting lighter

Postby Bananafish » Sun Feb 14, 2016 2:23 am

Hi there!

OK, I'll be waiting for your answer. :)


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