How to stop been "me"?

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Topazio
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How to stop been "me"?

Postby Topazio » Fri Feb 05, 2016 12:02 pm

What brings you to Liberation Unleashed?:
I watch some youtube videos and I felt that it may help me to find some answers; it has been a long journey and I feel that this way is the simplest I found, with out expensive gurus stuff and making regular people "divine" or special.

What are you looking for? What do you expect from this:
I look for clarification; did I pass "the gate all ready" , How to deal with extra energy left after that "passing"...if I did, now what?

What is your background in terms of seeking and inquiry?:
I have been searching for a long time: advita, meditation, Christianity, astrology Yoga...I think that it worked at the end, I feel different, it is no Dora, no self....no suffering.....an ongoing journey where I doesn't exist, yet it is a direction that has nothing to do with "dora" or "me"...it is not desire anymore....

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LindaR
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Re: How to stop been "me"?

Postby LindaR » Sat Feb 06, 2016 9:17 pm

Welcome to Liberation Unleashed. Glad you are here!

My name is Linda and I am happy to look with you, if you like.

What would you like me to call you?

Before we begin, just a few guidelines and housekeeping issues:

1. Write at least once a day, even if it is just to say you need more time.

2. During our time together, refrain from reading books and watching videos from teachers and philosophers. While you are here, we will be focusing on your direct experience only. Spiritual teachers and philosophers cannot help you in this exploration. This is about your experience only.

3. I will ask questions, and you agree to look deeply in direct experience with complete honesty, and provide a response.

4. For both of our benefit, please learn to use the quote function. It will eliminate a lot of confusion when reading and responding to questions. Instructions are here: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

5. Please read our disclaimer at http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Please let me know that you are okay with these, and then we will begin our exploration!

Sincerely,
Linda

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Topazio
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Re: How to stop been "me"?

Postby Topazio » Sat Feb 06, 2016 11:41 pm

Hello Linda, and thank you very much for your guidance; you can call me Dora; I agree with you and I'm willing to follow the necessary steps.
Regards,
Dora

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Topazio
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Re: How to stop been "me"?

Postby Topazio » Sat Feb 06, 2016 11:51 pm

Particularly when Im distracted, ego appears and make a mess in my life. Suddenly, dark clouds cover my mind and it looks like it is no way back to peace. Thoughts come as legions and for an hour or two I got trapped in the mind . Sometimes, I can see what is happening, yet I cannot break free of that momentary insanity.

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LindaR
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Re: How to stop been "me"?

Postby LindaR » Sun Feb 07, 2016 4:40 am

Hi Dora,
Great to hear back from you. Thank you for your introduction in explaining what is happening. Let’s start by looking a little deeper into a few things you said:
I look for clarification; did I pass "the gate all ready" ,
I feel different, it is no Dora, no self....no suffering.....an ongoing journey where I doesn't exist, yet it is a direction that has nothing to do with "dora" or "me"...it is not desire anymore....
Would you give me a full account of why you think you may have ‘passed through the gate’ already? What has happened that requires clarification? You said you feel different. Different from what? What is this ‘I’ that claims to feel different? Who or what, specifically, is it that is on “an ongoing journey where I doesn’t exist”?

Please be sure to answer each question as fully as you can. I look forward to reading your reply.

Sincerely,
Linda

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Topazio
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Re: How to stop been "me"?

Postby Topazio » Sun Feb 07, 2016 5:12 am

"I look for clarification; did I pass "the gate all ready" : Lately, I have been feeling that i was part of everything and that even though I still use I and me, I did not really existed and that what happened to me did not have much importance....and then: ego stroked again and I got into this I say you say with somebody and I started doubting about where in this "realization" situation am I... (?)

"I feel different, it is no Dora, no self....no suffering.....an ongoing journey where I doesn't exist, yet it is a direction that has nothing to do with "dora" or "me"...it is not desire anymore...." : as a person I know that I have no saying in nothing that happen either in my so-called life or others peoples lives yet, I am not sure if this a product of my "considerable vast spiritual education" or if is for sure that I crossed the no gate-gate! because, yes I feel different, until next "crisis" where some way ego jump back into "control".

Thanks,
Dora

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LindaR
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Re: How to stop been "me"?

Postby LindaR » Sun Feb 07, 2016 1:54 pm

Hi Dora,
Thank you for your responses. Before we go any further, let’s make sure that it is understood what we do here at Liberation Unleashed.

You said in a separate post (also, please post on this thread only. If you make a separate post I may not see it and you will not receive a response):
I just been told not to watch/read spiritual material while "looking" and working with a guide, and I already feel the heaviness of this "task"....even though I see the value in this "cleansing" of other peoples opinions about liberation. Something inside is craving for this "drug" called "seaking".
There is nothing wrong with craving this drug called seeking. If that is what life is doing as ‘Dora’ it is perfect, beautiful. But what we offer here is the opposite of seeking. This forum is where we LOOK to see if there is a self, a being, an entity, that is the manager, owner, controller of life. That is it. Nothing more.

I'm not entirely sure that what we do here is what you are looking for at this time. Did you get a chance to read the main website and FAQs? Perhaps you might consider coming back to the forum when, and if, seeking is no longer a ‘drug’ that is craved? Until then, there really is not much to offer you on this forum. What do you say? Should we hold off for now, or is LOOKING until it is seen that there is no separate self something you would like to explore, with the understanding that EVERY current belief, concept, and all things learned in your “considerable vast spiritual education” may possibly be completely destroyed in the process of exploring? Consider this carefully and let me know if this is something you are up for.

Much love,
Linda

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Topazio
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Re: How to stop been "me"?

Postby Topazio » Sun Feb 07, 2016 9:15 pm

Linda, I want to see. Show me , point to me where to look. Can you please point it to me?

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Topazio
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Re: How to stop been "me"?

Postby Topazio » Sun Feb 07, 2016 9:20 pm

I kept posting by mistake, I supposed that I was supposed to do it and somebody kindly already said that to me. I followed your directions, and I'm open to explore. I have no words to express how ready am I. By the way, English is not my mother tonghe, please be patient,. Thanks, Dora

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LindaR
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Re: How to stop been "me"?

Postby LindaR » Sun Feb 07, 2016 10:39 pm

Hi Dora,
I kept posting by mistake, I supposed that I was supposed to do it and somebody kindly already said that to me.
No worries. Sometimes it takes a little while to learn how the forum works. I assume you now understand that this thread, where you and I will have a conversation, is where you should post? If it is not clear yet, please let me know and I am happy to help you understand how to navigate the forum.
I followed your directions, and I'm open to explore. I have no words to express how ready am I.
Excellent. Then we shall explore!
By the way, English is not my mother tonghe, please be patient,
Thank you for letting me know. Just so you know, we have guides that speak Spanish, German, Portuguese, French, Dutch, Russian, and Finnish. Would you prefer to be guided in your mother language? If so, I would be happy to connect you with the appropriate guide. Perhaps it may make the exploration a bit smoother? However, if you prefer to continue in English, I am happy to guide you. Please let me know which language you feel would be most advantageous for you, and we can go from there .

Love,
Linda

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Topazio
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Re: How to stop been "me"?

Postby Topazio » Sun Feb 07, 2016 11:32 pm

Dear Linda,
1-Yes, now I do understand that this is a thread and how it works (finally :)
2- I trust you and I like you, and if you like I will love for you to be my guide and to start the exploration soon as possible.
3- About my mother's tongue, it is so many different dialects of this language that it may take a long time before I find a person that is both, awaken and willing to explore with me. So, thank you so much but English is a direct language and I think that we are going to be just fine using it.
Thank you,
Dora

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LindaR
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Re: How to stop been "me"?

Postby LindaR » Mon Feb 08, 2016 1:11 am

Hi Dora,

Alright, it sounds like we are ready to dive in and begin exploring together!

If at any time you do not understand what I am asking, please feel free to let me know, so I can clarify for you. I will do the same if I need clarity on what you are trying to express. Fair enough?

During this exploration, I will tend to ask various questions and present some exercises. Your job is to LOOK and report on first hand, direct experience (seeing, hearing, tasting, smelling, touching/feeling) what you find. Please be sure to answer all questions and try to be as concise as possible, refraining from a lot of mind chatter. In short, I am asking you not to THINK, but rather to FEEL, what is true for you in direct experience.

As a reminder, I ask you to put aside everything you have learned. Let’s approach this with a clean slate, like two children who have not had a lot of beliefs and concepts programmed into us yet. Also, nobody will be judging you. You can't get this wrong :-).

Let’s start fresh and take a peek at this first: I would like to invite you to tell me what comes up for you, when you read the following:

There is no separate self, no entity named ‘Dora’. There is no ‘I’, ‘me’ or ‘Dora’ who is controlling life. There is no such thing as an ego who “make a mess in my life”. There is no ‘Dora’ that has a life. None. Zero. Nada. Zip.

Delighted to be here with you, Dora.

Love,
Linda

P.S. It would be good to know what time zone you are in. I am in the U.S Eastern time zone (GMT -5).

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Topazio
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Re: How to stop been "me"?

Postby Topazio » Mon Feb 08, 2016 4:50 am

My direct experience is that I cannot control anything in "my life" yet I still see "I" during the day as a smoke screen in between "Life" and "I". I like the idea of not Dora at all, yet it is not a reality for me. I experience "no control" and sometimes it feels peaceful and sometimes scary and confusing; for example today someone told me a shocking story about his pass and first, I feel like running away (literally, couldn't do it, I was in a car) and when " I " ( or something inside me) "saw" the fear I was experiencing, a thought came to me in a form of "resignation"; I was in this car, no place to run at the moment, just a experience I have to go through, like ok, you will run later if you want, just stay here where "you are now". After this observation, my body and mind relaxed and I went with the flow.
After reading your statement I agreed immediately! That is freedom itself...but in reality, I feel like even though I believe that ego doesn't exist, etc...it is a lot of debris and fear arising in the form of "mental storms" that "cover"
-----nothing can cover the Self, because it is all it is, yet this is how it is to me now----.
My question is, that "thought that arose when I was so scared in the car and brought me the strength to be still and to get to the end" of the experience..... What was it?
Thank you,
Dora

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LindaR
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Re: How to stop been "me"?

Postby LindaR » Mon Feb 08, 2016 1:21 pm

Hi Dora,

Thank you for sharing what came up for you. We are going to look into what you wrote shortly, but first let’s take a good look and make sure there is a solid understanding of what is meant by direct experience. This is important because direct experience is foundational to everything we will explore together. Once this is clear, we will then dive in, and look to see what is really happening with this apparent ‘I’ ‘me’ ‘Dora’ that is seen to arise “as a smoke screen”.

Simply stated, direct experience is the data from specific senses (seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, touching) prior to interpretation by the mind. Direct experience is what is happening here and now. It is the only provable way we have to determine what is real.

To get a good look at this, I invite you to spend some quality time to complete the following exercises and then report back what you discover:


Exercise 1:

Think of where you last placed your house/car keys. Maybe they are currently in your pocket, handbag, a drawer, or basket. Don’t go get them though. Just think about where they are. Imagine in your mind how they feel in your hand. Notice (in your mind) how many keys are on the key ring. Notice the weight, texture, shape and design of the keys. Look (again, in your mind) at any lettering or designs on the keys.

Now go and get your keys. Hold the keys in your hand. Now actually feel the texture, weight, shape and design of the keys. Look at how many keys are actually on the key ring. Look at the designs and lettering on the keys.

Report back the difference between the imagined keys and the actual experience of the keys.

Exercise 2:

Get a pen or pencil and lay it beside you, but out of view.
Now imagine, in your mind, that you are holding the pen (don’t actually hold it). Think about how the plastic or metal feels to the touch. In your mind, notice the hardness. Notice the mental images around the weight, length, diameter of the pen. Imagine how any special characteristics of the pen, like groves, lines, or other designs feel to the touch.

Now pick the pen up. Feel the plastic or metal of the pen. Feel the hardness and the weight of the pen. See the length and diameter. Look at and feel the design.

Report back what was the difference between experiencing the thought of the pen and directly experiencing the pen? Did one feel more alive than the other?

Exercise 3:

Get a piece of paper and pen and go sit quietly somewhere, preferably outside in nature. For the next 5 minutes, notice all that is happening, right now. Write it all down. Maybe some sensations, maybe seeing, maybe a sound heard, maybe a smell?
When thoughts pops up, acknowledge them, notice how thoughts make commentary on direct experience, but don’t get involved with its content. Stay with direct experience only.
Let me have what you write, as plainly and ordinary as it may seem.

Warmly,
Linda

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Topazio
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Re: How to stop been "me"?

Postby Topazio » Mon Feb 08, 2016 2:18 pm

Excercise 1:
In my mind: five keys, two gold and three silver....lettering and numbers.
In my hands: same number of keys, they felt heavier than in my mind; they have inscriptions and numbers and two are gold and three are silver.


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