Awakening to the Truth

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CarolS
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Awakening to the Truth

Postby CarolS » Sat Jan 16, 2016 1:45 am

What brings you to Liberation Unleashed?:
I have been involved in Spiritual Practice of one kind or another for 14 years. Lately i feel like things are pulling me along faster and I am being helped along in a certain direction. Awaken now!! I get it intellectually,and am much more relaxed these days seeing emotion and thoughts tied to stories....but never considered until reading Gatecrashers that "i" , "me", self is also a thought. I would like to awaken "finally" out of the story and see the Truth. I love the Truth.

What are you looking for? What do you expect from this:
Presence, seeing clearly, Truth. An end to seeking, an end to looking for the next book or experience or teacher
or practice. An end to feeling like i am missing some key element. I am not sure what to expect....peace, relaxing, being comfy in my skin for once, authenticity, Being able to get on with life.instead of always thinking if i just accomplish this i will be able to get on with life...or maybe seeing that all of this IS getting on with life..LOL

What is your background in terms of seeking and inquiry?:
Began in 2002 when i read the Power of Now and my whole world blew up in my face after remaining present for the first time in my life that i can remember. Then i went on a rampage of books and self help (event though i read in his book spiritual seeking is another trap of the mind). Got involved in Religious Science, Science of Mind for 8 years or so, became a Life Coach and got interested in energy, got my 2nd degree Reiki Cert., Healers, guru's meditation (on my own), angels,some Abraham-HIcks, and most recently more books, more techniques and then " Spiritual Philosophy for a New Earth" 60 day program to transcend the Ego and The Ultimate Key to freedom ..mostly a personal curriculum based on what Life presented me with and what felt true and like the next step.

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vinceschubert
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Re: Awakening to the Truth

Postby vinceschubert » Sat Jan 16, 2016 12:28 pm

Hi Carol, vince here.
You say;
I would like to awaken "finally" out of the story and see the Truth. I love the Truth.
Language contributes to the difficulties in these inquiries. Seeking clarity in what we mean when we say something, is a priority.
Firstly, you say that you want to see the Truth (with a capital T), then you say that you love the Truth.
Do you (now) see that you say that you love that which you don't see ?
Please tell me what is actual (in your experience). What is Truth ?
i am also interested in what processes are happening for you, as you consider my responses and questions.
Total honesty and forthrightness is essential. (be brave)

vince

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CarolS
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Re: Awakening to the Truth

Postby CarolS » Sat Jan 16, 2016 6:16 pm

Hi Vince,
Do you (now) see that you say that you love that which you don't see ?
Yes, i see that now that you point it out. But part of me did not want to admit it, fought it a little bit.
Please tell me what is actual (in your experience). What is Truth ?
Truth is everything happening around me and also the things around me. Interacting with other people, sensations, emotions, thoughts. Sitting here in this chair writing back to you. Breathing. Awareness.

What happened first as i read your response was physically a very tight feeling in my heart area, fear, and a thought that i had not been a good student, you had "caught me" in an inconsistency in what i had written!
I want to 'Know" so i will appear perfect even though the very reason i am here is because i don't already know. Even now i can see myself calculating my words, (because i can get very good at saying the right words) making sure i am looking like a good girl/student. Writing, rewriting. I can see why total honesty is called for and yes bravery is necessary.

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vinceschubert
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Re: Awakening to the Truth

Postby vinceschubert » Sun Jan 17, 2016 11:53 am

Good evening Carol.
i do like the tone of your reply. (exhibiting honesty and courage)
There was no intent to "catch you out", just an opportunity to highlight the kind of inconsistencies that are rife in our cult(ure).
But part of me did not want to admit it, fought it a little bit.
This is another opportunity.
Firstly, i know what you mean.
Now, let's get more specific. More accurate.
i take it that there were some sensations that arose ?
That there was something that might be described as resistance ? Something that, at a sensation level, was a contraction ?
Were you also aware of a story that fed these sensations ?
Truth is everything happening around me and...
Ok, so Truth is like Carol, it is a concept to describe something. Is it anything more than this ?
What happened first as i read your response was
Ah yes. This is the really telling stuff.
physically a very tight feeling in my heart area, fear, and a thought that i had not been a good student, you had "caught me" in an inconsistency in what i had written!
Good noticing. (The connection between the sensations and the story that prompted them.)
Even now i can see myself calculating my words,
Good seeing.
Allow an intention to write quickly and once. Don't edit, except in an attempt to be more accurate, and even then, leave the original and rephrase after the original.
making sure i am looking like a good girl/student
If it happens, just allow it, then acknowledge it.
Please respond to every question (?) (..and continue to report what arises as you consider them)
Carol, can you find anything in the organism with the label of Carol, beside experiencing and thoughts about things ?

love

vince

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CarolS
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Re: Awakening to the Truth

Postby CarolS » Sun Jan 17, 2016 7:38 pm

i take it that there were some sensations that arose ?
That there was something that might be described as resistance ? Something that, at a sensation level, was a contraction ?
Hi Vince..There was a definite contraction in my whole body, most pronounced in my chest and solar plexus. A feeling of pressure and squeezing.
Were you also aware of a story that fed these sensations ?
Yes, i was aware of the story that i couldn't be found out to be stupid (or I am aware now at least) a story that i have to protect the image that i am intelligent, the " i know that already" story ...which now feels like "i am in charge here" "I am running this show" "who do you think you are to catch me out" or "who do you think you are to point out my mistake...
and now feels like Protection..protection.i need to be protected
Ok, so Truth is like Carol, it is a concept to describe something. Is it anything more than this ?
no i have checked and i thought at first it is "now", but that still makes Truth a concept , then it's a "pointer" or sign ...still leaves truth a concept...and Carol is a concept..no more than that, no less than that
there was just a tiny moment of hesitation this time of really not being sure of the "right answer" and not wanting to respond before deciding to "just go ahead and take a peek" happened..the thought i can go ahead and look around and see what i find out for myself...and you aren't going to judge me, you are here to keep pointing..
not much in the way of physical sensation like with the first post..
Carol, can you find anything in the organism with the label of Carol, beside experiencing and thoughts about things ?
This i read incorrectly or backwards at first as "Can you find Carol anywhere in the organism?" which i spent the morning looking for..LOL and of course did not find Carol anywhere inside this body....or the movements the body was making, then i tried to find exactly where "this awareness of a persona called Carol" is....
but your actual question: no i cannot find anything that isn't thought about something or experience of some kind
Thanks VInce

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vinceschubert
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Re: Awakening to the Truth

Postby vinceschubert » Mon Jan 18, 2016 1:09 pm

Good evening Carol,
There was a definite contraction in my whole body, most pronounced in my chest and solar plexus. A feeling of pressure and squeezing.
Did this persist when you became aware of it ?
i need to be protected
What happened when you recognized this ?
...and you aren't going to judge me,
Correct. My story of you is totally recognized as my story. Any resemblance to actuality is entirely coincidental. i do have warm feelings from that story.
not much in the way of physical sensation like with the first post..
Why do you think it is different ? (respond with the first thoughts that arise - don't edit them)
then i tried to find exactly where "this awareness of a persona called Carol" is....
Did you find anything that could be named awareness ? ..or was there just aware-ing happening ?
no i cannot find anything that isn't thought about something or experience of some kind
Ok, great!
Now let's look at experiencing a bit closer.
Consider the feeling in your buttocks, where they meet the chair. Can you feel where the the feel-er ends and the felt starts ?
If you focus intently on that sensation, does anything exist other than the sensation ?
When you remove the story elements (chair, bum, pressure, hardness, etc - all of the labels), what is left ?
Can any label come close to accurately describing the nature of the sensation ? ..or even the location of it ?
Was there a moment where that sensation was everything ?
Is there an experiencer, experiencing the experienced ? ...or is there only experiencing ?

love

vince

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CarolS
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Re: Awakening to the Truth

Postby CarolS » Mon Jan 18, 2016 5:17 pm

Morning Vince,
Did this persist when you became aware of it ?
it persisted until i answered the question and returned slightly again now until i put my full attention to it,
acknowledged it and my whole body relaxed.
What happened when you recognized this ?
i realized there isn't anything TO be protected, just my story or stories about myself, me, I. I felt relief. well, my body experienced a feeling of relief, relaxing. i think what happened first was questions started flooding in, like "who exactly needs protection, from what? why? then the realization came....
Why do you think it is different ? (respond with the first thoughts that arise - don't edit them)
i am more open, more relaxed, part of the story has been dismantled because of investigating it, i am spending more time throughout the day experiencing and noticing my story and concepts, less self
i was sitting at work (after writing the first post with all of the contraction) and was merely experiencing and something happened where all of the sudden the chaos and disarray in the place (hair salon) suddenly looked perfectly ordered and intensely real, then one of the assistants walked by sweeping and this huge bubble of
hilarity welled up in my chest...nothing in my life has ever seemed so ludicrous and funny...the feeling(sensation) just came out of nowhere and i can still see that scene vividly...it hasnt happened again but i woke up this morning watching my thoughts (the thoughts) and the things going on around me feeling my sensations (the sensations..haha).
Did you find anything that could be named awareness ? ..or was there just aware-ing happening ?
I could not find anything named awareness (and i kinda got freaked out) just the aware-ing happening...and i didnt explore it much farther because it seems as if there is a me that wants there to be a me that is beyond that pure aware-ing when there isn't...so what or who is controlling everything if i am not controlling "my" life...if i am not doing the choosing? (tears) this "self" really likes it's story ALOT doesnt it?? it really has a strong illusion that it is in charge now and things will change if it's story ends...
answers to the last set of questions in a separate post....
appreciate-ing you, Carol

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CarolS
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Re: Awakening to the Truth

Postby CarolS » Mon Jan 18, 2016 11:50 pm

ok, back again
Can you feel where the the feel-er ends and the felt starts ?
yes, i can feel the point where they intersect
If you focus intently on that sensation, does anything exist other than the sensation ?
no, only the sensation
When you remove the story elements (chair, bum, pressure, hardness, etc - all of the labels), what is left ?
the raw experience of the sensation
Can any label come close to accurately describing the nature of the sensation ? ..or even the location of it ?
no
Was there a moment where that sensation was everything ?
yes, when complete attention is on it, or in the moment when i am entirely focused on it..the moment of focus-ing
Is there an experiencer, experiencing the experienced ? ...or is there only experiencing ?
only experiencing ...it seems like "experiencer" would be just another label for a "me" (this seems elusive..it comes and goes) like what is there to be aware of it taking place at all without an experiencer..but is it even necessary for an experiencer for all of life to keep going on?? or will it just keep on life-ing regardless
i get it (For now)... that is the whole point...on and on it goes..endless experience without an experiencer and
it doesn't shut it all down, lights off because "I" am not witness to it....
night Vince

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vinceschubert
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Re: Awakening to the Truth

Postby vinceschubert » Tue Jan 19, 2016 12:41 pm

Good evening Carol
"who exactly needs protection, from what? why? then the realization came....
Confirm that the word "realization", was a literal 'making Real' ? Was a 'shift' experienced ?
feeling my sensations (the sensations..haha).
Because you recognize that this is the conditioning of language, that has you saying "my/I,me, etc", there is no need to alienate yourself from those 'not yet awakened', by talking funny.
this "self" really likes it's story ALOT
Is it possible that the 'I' story is useful in navigating daily life ?
Could it be useful like a raincoat ? Something to be worn when conditions require it ?
so what or who is controlling everything if i am not controlling "my" life...if i am not doing the choosing? (tears)
Is anything controlled ? Define control ?
Is it possible that everything that has ever happened, did so without being controlled ?
Is it possible that everything that has ever happened, did so without an actual Self, running the show ?

..next post;
i get it (For now)... that is the whole point...on and on it goes..endless experience without an experiencer and it doesn't shut it all down, lights off because "I" am not witness to it....
So can you explain how it did happen ?

love

vince

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CarolS
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Re: Awakening to the Truth

Postby CarolS » Tue Jan 19, 2016 6:41 pm

Hi Vince,
Confirm that the word "realization", was a literal 'making Real' ? Was a 'shift' experienced ?
It was a making real ...an eye opener..something that came to light that i had not been aware of on my own before, had read of but not felt the "oh I get it" of it before...in the moment a "shift" was experienced i cant say i "get it" or it's continuous throughout the day..i guess i can't say it was "sticky"
Is it possible that the 'I' story is useful in navigating daily life ?
Could it be useful like a raincoat ? Something to be worn when conditions require it ?
Yes, I suppose in certain situations it could come in very handy and as long as one can pick it up and put it down when they like they are not being lived by the story ...
Is anything controlled ? Define control ?
Is it possible that everything that has ever happened, did so without being controlled ?
Is it possible that everything that has ever happened, did so without an actual Self, running the show ?
definition first: making sure things happen the way I want them to, the way they are intended to happen, trying to "cause" certain things to happen rather than others in the fiction that it will have a positive outcome in my life...choosing certain options over others to cause things to go a certain way..planning,plotting, feels like holding tightly, closed, resisting... I have never really questioned what that word meant to me..thank you Vince..in that light...it seems as if "control" is an illusion, a lie or another concept to describe something else
it certainly seems as if "something" should be keeping this all running..because otherwise it would be a sort of cosmic free for all...with no universal manager keeping order, giving directions...but i cannot find it
nothing appears to be controlled, yes it's possible everything has never been controlled, happened without any Self running anything..that feels empty ....I am going to keep checking into these questions..
So can you explain how it did happen ?
not without falling back on my spiritual lingo and book learning stuff and even then not sure i could..i am going to allow that to percolate today and write again this evening...
thanks for everything Vince

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CarolS
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Re: Awakening to the Truth

Postby CarolS » Wed Jan 20, 2016 6:37 am

hi Vince,
Is it possible that everything that has ever happened, did so without being controlled ?
I would say yes, control seems to be limiting, restricting, parameters, boundaries all of which dont make any sense in an infinite universe..it wouldn't work
So can you explain how it did happen ?
no,i can't ..i got nothin here....i think it just happens
night VInce...

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vinceschubert
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Re: Awakening to the Truth

Postby vinceschubert » Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:01 pm

Good evening Carol
I would say yes, control seems to be limiting, restricting, parameters, boundaries all of which don't make any sense in an infinite universe..it wouldn't work
This is an intellectual conclusion. Like all stories, it may or may not turn out to be accurate.
What i want you to do is to notice the next time a decision is called for, what actually happens. In what order do the thoughts of control happen. When the story; "I did that." happens..
i think it just happens
This is a story. (a good one, but still just conjecture.)
no,i can't ..i got nothin here.
Great answer! The exact one that i was hoping for. A segue into the story of the Great Mystery.
The story goes that everything arises out of the Great Mystery. Nothing is known. Even sensations become concepts when they are being described.
When I was a kid, one day my mother woke me for school, as usual. I got up and got dressed for school and was just heading out the door to get breakfast, when my mother came and woke me up for school.
If we only know that we are dreaming when we wake up, how do we know that this isn't a dream ?
Can we really know ?
i cant say i "get it" or it's continuous throughout the day..i guess i can't say it was "sticky"
Check your expectations.
What stories are not seen as stories, about how it will be when you 'wake up'.
What stories are believed ?
as long as one can pick it up and put it down when they like they are not being lived by the story ...
Yes, there is much conditioning in play with this one.
We are habituated to responding to certain conditions in a particular way.
Do this;
When you realize that you have been, or are going to, or are in the midst of, living out a story, LOL.
Laugh out loud (if appropriate conditions exist) or at least, a huff of amusement that contracts the stomach muscles.
This releases feel good hormones (oxytocin) and aborts the completion of the usual responding. New neuronal pathways begin to form. Soon you will see it before it happens and in the seeing it will no longer be lived out.
It's about identification. The identification with the contents of the story will be weakened. ..and weakened, until...
Remember to report what arises as you consider the questions.

love

vince

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CarolS
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Re: Awakening to the Truth

Postby CarolS » Wed Jan 20, 2016 5:36 pm

hi Vince,
In what order do the thoughts of control happen. When the story; "I did that." happens..
Right at the beginning...I am going to get a cup of coffee, no i am going to work on my speech, I am, I am , I need to
...i need to rehearse, i am going to get this memorized, then i will practice ....very surprising how much "I" is going on without my noticing.."i just answered Vince" i pressed the keys, and i wrote the words..it doesn't appear to be happening so much during the doing of the thing itself...like writing just flows while i am in the process of it..the words just pop up...after I take all the credit
If we only know that we are dreaming when we wake up, how do we know that this isn't a dream ?
Can we really know ?
What arose...there's no answer to this..Confusion, unsettling feeling, backing away from it....there are no answers down that road and that will leave me defenseless??? void...also .."this is where Vince loses patience with me" , fear...i am not going to get through that gate...some tightness in my chest/throat..(awareness, acknowledgement of it)
we don't know ....we can never really know
What stories are not seen as stories, about how it will be when you 'wake up'.
What stories are believed ?
not seen as stories: i will have "made it", i will have a new shiny life, lose your life to gain the world, i will have transcended my ego, life will be "better", better health, all of the things i havent been able to accomplish i will be able to easily..my vibration/energy frequency will be raised, there will be nothing to motivate me, there will be no goals, nothing to achieve,
Believed: the energy frequency story, the story that if i "lose" the self that Consciousness/Life will have cleared out
patterns to flow through uninterrupted. It can flow through as the pure thought forms Life, Intelligence, Love, Joy awareness presence, life will be easier, nothing to acheive
Do this;
Okay, will do.
Appreciate you VInce, Carol

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CarolS
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Re: Awakening to the Truth

Postby CarolS » Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:03 am

Hi again Vince,
more on this..
What i want you to do is to notice the next time a decision is called for, what actually happens. In what order do the thoughts of control happen. When the story; "I did that." happens..
there are no "decisions" are there? after watching this process some more tonight there don't appear to be any actual decisions being made. if you take the "i out of all those statements it's just thoughts ,movements or actions happening.
Carol

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vinceschubert
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Re: Awakening to the Truth

Postby vinceschubert » Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:57 pm

Hi Carol.
not seen as stories: i will have "made it", i will have a new shiny life, lose your life to gain the world, i will have transcended my ego, life will be "better", better health, all of the things i havent been able to accomplish i will be able to easily..my vibration/energy frequency will be raised, there will be nothing to motivate me, there will be no goals, nothing to achieve,
Believed: the energy frequency story, the story that if i "lose" the self that Consciousness/Life will have cleared out
patterns to flow through uninterrupted. It can flow through as the pure thought forms Life, Intelligence, Love, Joy awareness presence, life will be easier, nothing to achieve
Having made them conscious, are they still the same ?
These are your stories about someone else's stories, are they not ?
They may or may not turn out to be accurate to a greater or lessor degree.
Do you understand the concept of impermanence ? (everything is always changing. Nothing stays the same.)
and that will leave me defenseless???
This is a good one. Who will be defenseless ?
Describe the sensations the organism might feel, when the story of defenseless is running.
fear...i am not going to get through that gate...
When you get through the gate, will all of the habits and preferences conditioned into the organism, disappear ?

love

vince


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