Am I typing this?

[czar7]

What brings you to Liberation Unleashed?
I stumbled across the brutal beginnings page after searching google for writings on non-duality. I found LU shortly thereafter. I decided to join the forum after reading several books on the subject.

What do you expect of the conversation on this forum?
I don't any expectations-I feel i'm still trying to grasp the 'concept' of non-duality. I'm confused about what the implications are -
It would be nice if someone could assist with helping me focus to provide clarity and direction

If possible, I'd like get answers to the following:

If I don't exist, then... what should I do? What can I do? How could 'I' ever know truthfully that 'I' don't exist?

What is your background in terms of seeking and inquiry?
I feel i've always been a bit of a seeker since I was a child. Trying to figure out the why's and how's.
I thought it was interesting that on one hand, everything we witness seems to be governed by the rules of cause and effect. While, on the other hand, the mere existence of this 'universe' contradicts this requirement.

(Something must have come from something, right? but where did THAT come from?)

So, something must have always been there, I concluded.

hmm...

Anyhow, the intensity of the search has increased over the past few years. I'm familiar with LoA (Abraham Hicks), Bashar and the non-duality "teachings" of Tony Parsons, Robert Wolfe and Ramana Maharshi (the usual suspects.)

I suppose the nature of seeking has changed a bit over the past few years -- initially I just wanted to get laid more and have a couple $mil land in my lap. Now, I wonder if that would be sufficient.

Most-recently, I've read Tony's 'Open Secret' and 'Nothing being everything' as well as the LOOK! guide from this site.

Still 'seeking'...

[Aragon]

Hi there! I'm Aragon. I could guide you if you like?

[czar7]

Hello Aragon, that would be great.

[Aragon]

Ok, great, what shall I call you?

You might want to hit the Subscribe Button at the bottom of the page, and learn the quote function (Just hightlight text in full editor, and hit 'quote'.)

So you have lots of questions. Do you think you can figure this out with your head? Do you think you can grasp the concept of non-duality?

This is about looking, going beyond concepts. You want to have a look?

What is searching? What are you? What do you take yourself to be? Not what you've learned from the teachers you've mentioned... but what you really believe.... let's start there... what do you take yourself to be?

Be well,

Aragon

[czar7]

Ok, great, what shall I call you?

..

What is searching? What are you? What do you take yourself to be? Not what you've learned from the teachers you've mentioned... but what you really believe.... let's start there... what do you take yourself to be?

Be well,

Aragon

Thanks Aragon, you can call me 'Bill'. I take my self to be a person -- a thinking, breathing individual. I may not be in 'control' but I am here, now. There is a perspective from which 'I' experience things around me (sights, thoughts,sounds). I assume there are other perspectives, but only have knowledge of my own.

[Aragon]

Hi Bill,

Can you tell me where you are located? Are you the body, or in the body? Whereabouts? Above the waist or below? To the back or to the side? How deep in? Maybe shut your eyes, locate yourself, then point to where you reside... How big are you? What shape? What colour?

Be well,

Aragon

[czar7]

If I'm honest --

I am the body, yes.
I am 6 feet tall, shaped like a man, and I am white.

Thanks

[Aragon]

Hi Bill,

Did you try to locate yourself like I said?

Maybe shut your eyes, locate yourself, then point to where you reside...

Where does the finger point?

It's not about what you think, it's about experience...

Aragon

[czar7]

Hi Bill,

Did you try to locate yourself like I said?

Maybe shut your eyes, locate yourself, then point to where you reside...

Where does the finger point?

Aragon

The finger points to the chest

[Aragon]

Hi Bill,

Great! So here's the thing. The first time you answered, you said you were 6 feet tall, shaped like a man, and I am white.

That answer came from thought.

Your second answer was from looking to your experience, not what you think.

This difference is crucial. The idea is always to go to experience. The 'seeing' occurs outside of thought. Can you see the difference?

Can you go again, try to locate yourself - in the chest - how big are you, what shape, to the left or right, how far back - just really try to get a sense of you.

Then notice, what is this thing that you are taking to be you? Is it an object of awareness? Does something seem to be aware of you?

If so, can you find that. How big is it, where is it located? and so on.

It's really important you look, not just imagine what i would be like to look...

Can you see how what we take to be 'me' is not necessarily 'me'?

Aragon

[czar7]

Yes, I do see the difference. Experience vs ideas.

The idea is that I'm a white dude with certain qualities and features. My apparent experience is that of sensory inputs (sight, sound, touch, thoughts)

I try to describe how big I am, and where I am and the answers seem obvious-- I am the size of the body, I am in this room.

So when I stick to awareness, it seems that I am awareness, and that this awareness is attached (and perhaps provided by) this body.

I certainly see that I am not what I think I am

[Aragon]

Hi Bill,

Okay, try this. Sit quietly, eyes closed. Go to the point where the feet meet the floor. In experience (not thoughts about it), what is found?

- Is there a foot?
- Is there a floor?
- Is there contact?
- what is there?

Aragon

[czar7]

-I cannot differentiate between foot / floor
-There feels like contact
-The sensation of warmth is there

[Aragon]

Hi Bill!

Okay, great.... so there is something happening there when you look, no?

-I cannot differentiate between foot / floor

Yes

-There feels like contact

contact is a concept, no? Can you find 'contact' outside of the content of thought?

-The sensation of warmth is there

There is sensation. Let's agree to call it sensation. But warmth is again a learned label. Does a baby experience warmth or just sensation, which it later labels warmth?

So in actual experience, is there just sensation +thought-label 'warmth',
OR is there warmth?

Which is it?

Aragon

[czar7]

contact is a concept, no? Can you find 'contact' outside of the content of thought?
..
There is sensation. Let's agree to call it sensation. But warmth is again a learned label. Does a baby experience warmth or just sensation, which it later labels warmth?

Yes. Contact and warmth are concepts.

The baby has no labels to apply to these sensations

So in actual experience, is there just sensation +thought-label 'warmth',
OR is there warmth?

Which is it?

In actual experience, there is sensation, and then there are many labels which spring from this sensation.