Simple realization

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ecoti161
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Simple realization

Postby ecoti161 » Wed Jan 06, 2016 4:41 pm

What brings you to Liberation Unleashed?
A divorce helps me to realize my anger 8 months ago. I started to look on the web and found some sites, which with time put me on a sort of spiritual journey. I started to devour books like never, e.g., Eckart Tolle, Jed Mckenna, Joe Dispenza… Tolle allowed me to be in a state. I read Mckenna books nonstop…I could not accept that spiritual people needed to put themselves forward and make the other pay. Furthermore, I couldn’t never find the blueprint of what most people called enlightenment, whatever it was. I was scarred from Mckenna books, 10 years to settle…autolys… During this time I also started to meditate and do yoga…ahahahah…it in fact help me to realize…

Nevertheless, the 28/12-2015, I found your website. I started to read your book and everything started make sense. I remember to be in front of my computer and pushing away my body away from the desk.
This night, I went to the bed, fall asleep and wake-up. A snake mouse started to appear. I wasn’t afraid as I may have vision during meditation function of where my concentration was. This snake mouse wanted to scare me and become larger and larger…I was just looking…just thinking that something was dying, losing grip in me. After a wild, the snake eat himself putting his tail in his mouse and disappeared. Afterwards, a cave appeared, a lamp was illuminating part of it. The entire cave was covered with some sort of dough, very sticky. The vision went backwards and a dying dragon appeared. The dragon tried to be my body. I felt it was becoming my arm. I needed to open my eyes to see that my arm was still my arm and the dragon disappeared. Some other stuff appeared like a war ship…after a wild, a sort of cloud was present and just sleep. Some days later, I read Tom story !

The book was still read. The different cases help to further understand and release some doubts, understanding that the thoughts will still be there, just to look at them for what they are. The shift was unclear but related to meditation: perceiving, observing, thought appearing…but no one there…BOOM! So obvious, so close… tears appear….happiness appear…like looking for the eyeglasses everywhere when they are on the nose…ahahahahaha.
Nothing is in fact different but everything is perceived differently, peacefully. There are still feeling appearing without any doubt, but they just are there. The amount of discussion in the head decreases dramatically, life is simple. Some thoughts appear, are watched...

In conclusion, I am interested in your after care. After, “you” are the “professionals”, some questions may be needed before.

What do you expect of the conversation on this forum?

Help, share, further develop

What is your background in terms of seeking and inquiry?
See first question

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QuantSelfLaFont
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Re: Simple realization

Postby QuantSelfLaFont » Thu Jan 07, 2016 4:55 pm

Hi ecoti161, happy to be your Guide if that suits.

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ecoti161
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Re: Simple realization

Postby ecoti161 » Thu Jan 07, 2016 5:19 pm

Hi QuandSelfLaFont,
Most welcome,thank you!
Looking forward

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QuantSelfLaFont
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Re: Simple realization

Postby QuantSelfLaFont » Thu Jan 07, 2016 9:22 pm

Great.

1. This is your journey. I am a Guide. I am not a teacher, guru or therapist. We walk together and I keep pointing the way. You make the journey. My pointing mostly will take the form of questions that I will ask and you will answer.
2. I am in the Mountain Time Zone in the USA. I will read your posts in the afternoon my time, consider them, then pose the questions and make comments once per day. I would like to do this in a way you will have time to consider the questions before you respond. Please confirm back your timezone so we can coordinate this well.
3. Confirm you will be able to post once per day. When posting, you are committed to responding from direct experience (felt senses and observed thoughts). You understand that long winded analytical or philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress.
4. You commit to responding to questions with utmost honesty.
5. You are comfortable setting aside all other teachings, philosophies and “isms” for the remainder of this investigation. This means you will put all your effort and attention into seeing reality as it is here in this investigation. If you have a daily and essential meditation practice, it is fine to continue that.
6. Please read our disclaimer and have a look at the introductory materials:http://www.liberationunleashed.com/

The quote function helps smooth the communication process. Try it by “quoting” the items 1 through 6 back to me and confirming you are comfortable with the guidelines.

As a small administrative tip, on the bottom of the page in the blue navigation bar you will see a link that says “Subscribe Topic” just to the right of where it says “Board Index.” If you click that you will get an email when I post a response for you. I enable it and find it helpful.

I look forward to working with you.

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ecoti161
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Re: Simple realization

Postby ecoti161 » Fri Jan 08, 2016 6:00 pm

Hi QuantSelfLaFont,

Thank you for your time.
1. I am ok with that.
2. My time zone is Stockholm (+1 GMT)
3. I will be able to post once per day, I will do it at about 1700, my local time. Some deviation may occur as I am travelling a lot.
4. Yes.
5. I will do so.
6. I read it and understand my responsibilities.

The administrative tip is already on for me.

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QuantSelfLaFont
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Re: Simple realization

Postby QuantSelfLaFont » Fri Jan 08, 2016 6:04 pm

Great. Thanks for acknowledging.

Question: When successful in completing this process what do you think will be different?

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ecoti161
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Re: Simple realization

Postby ecoti161 » Fri Jan 08, 2016 7:48 pm

Good question! The following is coming to my mind:
Firstly,there is some need of approval to surmount some fear that the present state will not disappear.
In some way, this is silly. The thought(s) will always be their after any outcome, just to look at them for what they are.
Secondly, there is a question pumping up:"what is next?". This should come by itself.
In summary, nothing will be different as known today.
So why entering this process if any?
Upcoming events will certainly point to some answer(s).

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QuantSelfLaFont
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Re: Simple realization

Postby QuantSelfLaFont » Sat Jan 09, 2016 10:13 am

surmount some fear that the present state will not disappear
This concern is normal and I can assure you that nothing real with disappear.
In summary, nothing will be different as known today.
OK, good.

Exercise: Sit comfortably at a table. Relax with a few evenly spaced breaths. Describe what is happening in Direct Experience.


Thanks

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ecoti161
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Re: Simple realization

Postby ecoti161 » Sat Jan 09, 2016 5:06 pm

Seeing, hearing, feeling of the breath and the body, silence, awareness, some words (the one written)

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QuantSelfLaFont
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Re: Simple realization

Postby QuantSelfLaFont » Sun Jan 10, 2016 12:09 am

Seeing, hearing, feeling of the breath and the body, silence, awareness, some words (the one written)
Good job.

Here is mine: Click of keyboard, voice from television to front, grey bag to right front, couch pushing against sitting bones.

At Liberation Unleashed we consider the real to be those things that do not disappear when we stop believing in them or when we close our eyes. For example, the grey bag to my right front will not disappear if I close my eyes.

I have copied and pasted a statement from your very first pos:

-I went to the bed, fall asleep and wake-up.
-A snake mouse started to appear.
-This snake mouse wanted to scare me and become larger and larger…I was just looking…just thinking that something was dying, losing grip in me.
-The vision went backwards and a dying dragon appeared. The dragon tried to be my body. I felt it was becoming my arm.
-open my eyes to see that my arm was still my arm
-dragon disappeared.


Exercise: Copy and paste those statements above and label them based on if they are thoughts (T) or Direct Experience (DE).

For example:
-Click of keyboard (DE)
-Running late for dinner (T)

Give it try.

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ecoti161
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Re: Simple realization

Postby ecoti161 » Sun Jan 10, 2016 12:00 pm

-I went to the bed, fall asleep and wake-up. (T)
-A snake mouse started to appear. (T)
-This snake mouse wanted to scare me and become larger and larger…I was just looking…just thinking that something was dying, losing grip in me. (T)
-The vision went backwards and a dying dragon appeared. The dragon tried to be my body. I felt it was becoming my arm. (T)
-open my eyes to see that my arm was still my arm (T)
-dragon disappeared. (T)

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QuantSelfLaFont
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Re: Simple realization

Postby QuantSelfLaFont » Mon Jan 11, 2016 12:20 am

Great, thanks for trying that.
-I went to the bed, fall asleep and wake-up. (T)
-A snake mouse started to appear. (T)
-This snake mouse wanted to scare me and become larger and larger…I was just looking…just thinking that something was dying, losing grip in me. (T)
-The vision went backwards and a dying dragon appeared. The dragon tried to be my body. I felt it was becoming my arm. (T)
-open my eyes to see that my arm was still my arm (T)
-dragon disappeared. (T)
I think these are DE
-I went to the bed, fall asleep and wake-up. (DE)
-open my eyes to see that my arm was still my arm (DE)

Bed, sleep, eyes open, arm - all things that are real. For example, you can't stop believing in your arm and it disappears.

Exercise: Take out an orange, or tomato, or anything edible that you have at your house. I will use "orange" to describe the exercise. Sit at your table. Place the orange before you. Close your eyes and image the shape, texture and flavor of the orange. Be as vivid as possible.

Open your eyes. Pick up the orange. Feel it, examine it and when you have done that sufficiently, taste it.

Question: What is the difference between your thoughts (T) about the organge and your experience (DE) of the orange ?

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ecoti161
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Re: Simple realization

Postby ecoti161 » Mon Jan 11, 2016 6:51 pm

Thank you for your time sharing!

DE was in fact firstly written but changed by T after seeing "I" and "my" in the sentences.
Will agree to DE if the following was written:
- Went to the bed, fall asleep and wake-up. (DE)
- Open the eyes to see the arm still attached to the body (DE)
Or does it means that thoughts can experience DE? Confusion!!!!
Or is it something else?

The exercise was done with a boiled egg. Hope this is still ok despite the white color :)
The experience between T and DE is large.
T is like seeing through fog, touch with gloves, taste with a "plastic bag" in the mouse...all the feelings or a glimpse of them with a strong filter. The body is not really involved.
DE is seeing, touching, tasting without filter; strong experience. The body is directly involved. Words may appear, characterizing the experience. The experience feels easier.

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QuantSelfLaFont
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Re: Simple realization

Postby QuantSelfLaFont » Tue Jan 12, 2016 3:19 am

DE was in fact firstly written but changed by T after seeing "I" and "my" in the sentences.
Use of "I" and "my" is a communication convention and not a problem. We understand that it helps us communicate so at LU we're not overly strict about that.
Or does it means that thoughts can experience DE?
Good question. We'll come back to that.
The experience between T and DE is large.
Indeed it is.
T is like seeing through fog...DE is seeing, touching, tasting without filter; strong experience.
Great noticing.

Exercise Step 1: Sit quietly and close your eyes. Think about you. Think about your life, your future goals. Your role as a parent, sibling or partner. Think about your reputation. Think about what your family thinks about you, and your friends. See the detail.

Exercise Step 2: You've opened your eyes. Look at the real you.

Question: What is the difference between your thoughts (T) about the you and your experience (DE) of you?

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ecoti161
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Re: Simple realization

Postby ecoti161 » Tue Jan 12, 2016 7:10 pm

Exercise step 1:
The thoughts are there with some words and some images; positive and negative. Some words/images become stronger than other creating sensations in my body. Everything is anyhow foggy, doughy. Efforts are needed to focus, get some clear picture; it is an evasive me.

Exercise step 2:
I see my right arm, legs...it is clear, pretty simple...far from step 1. There is no mystery, it is a direct experience without effort, compromise.


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