Want to be guided by Drdhamati

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lordoflions
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Want to be guided by Drdhamati

Postby lordoflions » Mon Nov 23, 2015 7:07 am

What brings you to Liberation Unleashed?:
Curiosity. Desire for more clarity

What do you expect of the conversation on this forum?:
More clarity

What is your background in terms of seeking and inquiry?:
Practicing buddhist for 20years

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Re: Want to be guided by Drdhamati

Postby dridhamati » Tue Nov 24, 2015 4:50 pm

Hi,

Is it OK to call you 'lordoflions' or would you prefer something else?

Welcome to Liberation Unleashed (LU) and I'm happy to guide you.

Before we get started, a few points…

… about the process itself:
1. Could you please confirm that you agree with the Disclaimer on the home page of the LU site?
2. Let's aim to write as often as possible, even if it's short. It is a good way to keep up the momentum. I've guided people as far as Australia and NZ so I'm used to time lag (I'm in France at the mo').
… and particularly:
3. Responses require utmost honesty.
4. Responses are best formulated from direct experience (felt senses and observed thoughts). If you are unfamiliar with Direct Experience please let me know.
5. You are ready and willing to look at and challenge any fixed view, any taboo that's currently held. That's any, no exceptions.

… about posting:
1. You might want to familiarise yourself with the useful 'Quote' function: http://liberationunleashed.com/nation/v ... ote#p12593.
2. Another trick is to write your post in your favourite word processor, then copy & paste it into the editor on the LU forum, then format it as you wish. That way you won't lose your work half-way through (which can happen if there is a hiccup with the Internet connection...)
3. Please click the 'subscribe topic' link at the very bottom of the page to ensure you get an email whenever a reply comes in.

Assuming there's agreement with the formalities above, let's start shall we.

In the response to this first post could you please say a little more about what brings you here, and most particularly what you think/hope/expect could come out of this process, if successful?
For example, you mention a desire for clarity. Can you please say more?


Looking forward to working with you!

Cheers
Dridhamati

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Re: Want to be guided by Drdhamati

Postby lordoflions » Fri Nov 27, 2015 11:07 am

Dear Dridhamati,

Firstly, I am sorry it has taken me a few days to reply.

You ask me to mention a bit more what brings me to this site. I have quite a few friends who have done this now and most, if not all, have said how good it was in enabling them to deepen their practice and their understanding of annita.



Yes clarity. I believe I have a continuing clarity of the laksanas spread over 20or so years of dharma reflections, though I would say, in traditional buddhist terms. I am a greed type, with quite a bit of delusion as well!

Another way of looking at it is that I tend to use the spatial model to understand experience, rather than temporal. It's to say, I think spatially and not really linearly. This can be an asset at times, though can leave me feeling rather" spaced out" at times too. So clarity is also for me related to something visceral, something felt in the body.

When I am connected to this and open out into this space my meditation can be strong, though, at times, I can loose that groundedness, and at times, become quite nihilistic. I loose that sense of self, in a positive way I guess, what I mean is I loose my centre. For me, seeing through self would mean coming closer to feeling centred, always feeling at the centre of the mandala, of ones experience.

Clarity also in how I look out always for my happiness, especially in relationship s. I have always been drawn to the word intimacy. I have a longing to be intimate with life, yet I seem to get in the way of that and I end up at times feeling lonely.

So without wishing to expect much, what I hope from this inquiry is a deeper sense of centredness and a greater opening of the heart towards all life with less fear.

With much metta


Sinhendra



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Re: Want to be guided by Drdhamati

Postby dridhamati » Fri Nov 27, 2015 3:33 pm

Hi Sinhendra,

Thank you for this information. It is very useful.
Since you posted I will assume that you've agreed with the points in my first post, particularly with the LU disclaimer.

Now here are a few questions and statements. What we're looking for here are responses describing the experiences that arise when reading the words. Very much the 'raw' (perhaps visceral) stuff.

1. There is no 'I, me, myself' that is 'a greed type, with quite a bit of delusion as well!'
2. There is no 'I, me, myself' that is 'feeling rather "spaced out" at times...'
3. There is no 'I, me, myself' that can 'loose that groundedness', or 'become quite nihilistic.'


Now, looking at the experiences through the 5 physical senses, and mind (6th sense):
1. What is this 'centre that is lost'?
2. Who/what loses their 'centre'?
3. Who/what 'seems to get in the way of that [be intimate with life] and ends up at times feeling lonely.'


All the best,
Dridhamati

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Re: Want to be guided by Drdhamati

Postby lordoflions » Fri Nov 27, 2015 6:01 pm

Hi there,

Yes I agree to LU terms.

What is this centre that is lost?

For me finding that centre means feeling ok with what is occurring without desire to push or pull away from what is experienced. It is a sense of solidity and connection. The mind is not distracted. It is focused yet flexible. The image I have is a circle withour a circumference, wherever I am is the centre. There is relaxation in the body, an acceptance of being where I am, that seems to put everything else in its place for a little while.

Who or what loses its centre?

This is when there isnt this sense of cohesiveness in experience. Less solidity. There is more identification with thoughts that create tension in the body. Experiences more of anxiety or fear, played out in thoughts. This happens when there isnt presence of mind. And an acceptance of what is.so what is lost i s for me this sense of cohesiveness. This sense of everything having its place.

Who or what gets in the way of being intimate with life....?

When I feel lonely it is because I dont feel satisfied with what is in some way. Its a sense of separateness. Not feeling connected. Its a story that what is present isnt good enough and so there is seeking for it elsewhere. So its a view that believes intimacy is found outside and joined with something inside. This gets in the way of intimacy.

With best wishes


Sinhendra

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Re: Want to be guided by Drdhamati

Postby lordoflions » Sun Nov 29, 2015 1:08 pm

Hi Dridhamati,

Hope you are well. I just wanted to respond to the statements written above.

I have been using these as reflections when I sit. The main observation I have as a response is visceral.


There is tightness below the navel. Above this and experience seems to open and feel more spacious. It tight here, a real holding on. I try and ease into it, exploring the texture. It is fear and anxiety. I try and sit with there is no "I me myself" that is feeling anxious and so who is doing the fearing? This sometimes would give a jolt to that felt sense of a knot there, like a little spasm and give, momentarily, a little more contentment. Though it seems quite present, in a low level way, most of the time.

Best wishes

Sinhendra

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Re: Want to be guided by Drdhamati

Postby dridhamati » Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:52 pm

Hi Sinhendra,

My turn to apologise for the delay in answering.
What is this centre that is lost?
For me finding that centre means...
Thanks for that. Just wanted to get an idea of what this 'centre' is.
Who or what loses its centre?
This is when there isnt this sense of cohesiveness in experience. Less solidity...
This explanation does not really answer the question, does it. Details are given on the centre and how it is lost, but the question is “who or what loses its centre?
The centre is lost, there must be something or someone that has lost this centre. Can this something or someone be located, identified?
Who or what gets in the way of being intimate with life....?
When I feel lonely it is because I dont feel satisfied with what is in some way. Its a sense of separateness. Not feeling connected. Its a story that what is present isnt good enough and so there is seeking for it elsewhere. So its a view that believes intimacy is found outside and joined with something inside. This gets in the way of intimacy.
This is good stuff. :-)
First: 'its a story that...' then 'its a view that...'
Is this story, this view, resulting from observation of experiences through the 5 physical senses, and mind (6th sense), or is it only the product, the content of thoughts (mind experiences)?
...It is fear and anxiety...
Great looking there.
So there's fear and anxiety, which manifest through the body in several ways. Now looking at those areas of the body, can the 'fear' or 'anxiety' be exactly located?
For example, whatever is happening below the navel, can it be called 'fear' or 'anxiety'? Or is it just 'tightness'?
Seek out the fear, the anxiety, everywhere in the body. Where do they originate?

All the best
Dridhamati

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Re: Want to be guided by Drdhamati

Postby lordoflions » Tue Dec 01, 2015 9:22 pm

Hi Dridhamati,

Thanks fir reply.

"Can this someone or something be located?"

When I actually examine directly what is experienced, it is always in flux. There is no actual place which is the centre. It is always evolvng or morphing. Thus "finding my centrre" just means finding a sense of opening and relaxation in the body.

About intimacy...

When, in a way, I forget about wanting intimacy and try just to relax with what arrises, that sense of connection arrises also. Thus the view of intimacy seems more connected to an idea. It is the product of the mind. It seems to judge whether sensation fits thst idea or not. If it does there is intimacy, if it doesn't there isn't. Generally there isnt as the view believes it exists elsewhere outside of me.

Can the fear and anxiety be exactly located?

When I begin to examine in experience what is happening, what I get more of a sense of is the elements. There is resistance, heat, some flexibility. Energy at times releases and rises up the torso then back again. Then tight again. When I just experience this without trying ti label, then there is no fear or anxiety. There is a continuing flux of sensations, and, at times I could even find contentment with this.

Fear and anxiety seems quite deeply rooted. I experience it as a holding on, not wanting to let go. Ultimately a fear of the unknown, or at least an idea if what that is. Behind this must be an idea or view of who I am that doesn't want to change, no matter how much it is suffering.

I will continue to look at this in meditation. Thank you.

Best wishes,

Sinhendra



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Re: Want to be guided by Drdhamati

Postby dridhamati » Wed Dec 02, 2015 11:58 am

Hi Sinhendra,
Can this someone or something be located?
When I actually examine directly what is experienced, it is always in flux. There is no actual place which is the centre. It is always evolvng or morphing. Thus "finding my centre" just means finding a sense of opening and relaxation in the body.
Perhaps there was some unclarity in the last post: the answer above still relates to “what the centre is/isn't, what finding the centre is/isn't.”
When examining directly what is experienced, please focus the observation on who/what is finding/losing the centre. In other words, in the phrase above 'finding my centre', please focus the looking on who/what the word 'my' refers to.
Can this reference be located in experience?

About intimacy...
When, in a way, I forget about wanting intimacy and try just to relax with what arrises, that sense of connection arrises also.
So if I understand this right, when thoughts about “I, me, myself wanting intimacy” are quietened, or not invested into (followed up as a story), or the view let go of, then intimacy naturally arises.
Does this match your experience?
Thus the view of intimacy seems more connected to an idea. It is the product of the mind.
'seems'?
Is there uncertainty here that the view is a product of the mind?
It seems to judge whether sensation fits thst idea or not. If it does there is intimacy, if it doesn't there isn't. Generally there isnt as the view believes it exists elsewhere outside of me.
Hmmm. This reads like a view [it] is able to bring about intimacy. How does this fit with what is observed above: about quietening the thoughts?
This is worth looking at more closely: does this intimacy arise when views are let go of, or as a result of views judging experience?
Can the fear and anxiety be exactly located?
When I just experience this without trying ti label, then there is no fear or anxiety. There is a continuing flux of sensations, and, at times I could even find contentment with this.
So if I understand this right, fear or anxiety cannot be found in experience: they are just labels.
Does this match your experience?
Fear and anxiety seems quite deeply rooted. I experience it as a holding on, not wanting to let go. Ultimately a fear of the unknown, or at least an idea if what that is. Behind this must be an idea or view of who I am that doesn't want to change, no matter how much it is suffering.
Notwithstanding the physical effects attributed to fear or anxiety, these -fear or anxiety- cannot be found in experience: a tight belly is a tight belly, it is not a scared belly or an anxious belly.
So observing all 6 senses, seeking out this fear or anxiety, where are they found?
Since at the physical level there only exist a continuing flux of sensations. Where else is there to look?

There are many questions in this post. Most point to the same answer(s). Please read the questions carefully and take time to respond.

All the best
Dridhamati

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Re: Want to be guided by Drdhamati

Postby lordoflions » Fri Dec 04, 2015 3:56 pm

Hello Dridhamati,

Sorry not to respond earlier. I am on my way to a weekend retreat, si wint be able to write back until next Tuesday. Thank you for these questions, I shall take them away with me!

Best wishes,

Sinhendra

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Re: Want to be guided by Drdhamati

Postby dridhamati » Fri Dec 04, 2015 6:01 pm

Hi Sinhendra,

Enjoy the retreat!

All the best
Dridhamati

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Re: Want to be guided by Drdhamati

Postby lordoflions » Wed Dec 09, 2015 5:58 pm

Hi Dridhamati,

I have been away as o stated in previous mail, and now have slight cold, though I shall endeavor to answer these questions...

Who or what does the "my" refer to when finding tge centre.

My, refers to that which has ownership. That, when looking decides what is or isn't part of the centre.

It feels located in a space with an outsude and inside.

The "my" refers to self.

Its difficult to drop the stories that proliferate on the basis of sense experience.

When " I " do the "idea" of a centre doesnt feel important. Its tge "i" that gives it its importance.

So when it is investigated this "my" seeks to grasp after experience and make it mine and moves on from one moment to the next like this. The my refers to grasping after experience.

I feel intimacy or a sense of connection when that sense of grasping is not so present. There is relaxation in the body. A sense of contentment.

"Seems" is a word that means its "like" something. When something seems like something then it maybe or it maybe not what it is. Using such a word doesn't lend itself to seeing directly. It can also suggest uncertainty and unconfidence in what is experienced. So there is a lack of confidence in my assertion that intimacy is an idea. Though thinking more clearer, it is an idea. And gets in tge way. It is a product of the mind.


What is intimacy? A sense of feeling complete. This happens when I accept exactly, and unjudgementally, what is happening. Which means without the stories. This is what I am still working on. I know there is an openr there, but I feel the tension arrise and the desire to move away from what is happening. Its difficult to let go.

Fear and anxiety are rooted in the notion that there is something to protect. In this sense they are ideas. Yet they are real for me. However, I can at times, just let the sensations behind these emotions be there. Then its not a case of whether they are this or that. The sensations arent judged. The main thing here is when there is no judging going on then there is just experience rolling on.

The last question I would like to respond later. As I want to explore it more.

Best wishes and I am grateful for your responses.

Sinhendra



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Re: Want to be guided by Drdhamati

Postby dridhamati » Wed Dec 09, 2015 10:38 pm

Hi Sinhendra,
and now have slight cold
Best wishes for a prompt recovery from the cold.
My, refers to that which has ownership. That, when looking decides what is or isn't part of the centre.
It feels located in a space with an outsude and inside.
The "my" refers to self.
Its difficult to drop the stories that proliferate on the basis of sense experience.
When " I " do the "idea" of a centre doesnt feel important. Its tge "i" that gives it its importance.
So when it is investigated this "my" seeks to grasp after experience and make it mine and moves on from one moment to the next like this. The my refers to grasping after experience.
”It feels located in a space with an outsude and inside.” But can this 'I, me, mine' actually be found in experience?
- Using the eyes: can this 'I, me, mine' be seen?
- Using the ears: can this 'I, me, mine' be heard?
- Using the nose: can this 'I, me, mine' be smelt?
- Using the tongue: can this 'I, me, mine' be tasted?
- Using the body: can this 'I, me, mine' be touched?
- Using the mind: can this 'I, me, mine' be thought?

...So there is a lack of confidence in my assertion that intimacy is an idea. Though thinking more clearer, it is an idea. And gets in tge way. It is a product of the mind.
Rather than 'thinking more clearly', please look with the 6 senses, as listed above.
Can intimacy be seen, heard, etc?

Before going any further with the other answers, I wish to clarify something here.
Remember the point that was made in my first post: “Responses are best formulated from direct experience (felt senses and observed thoughts).”
It is crucial for this inquiry to be discriminative with experience. When asked for example to locate something with the senses, each sense must be scanned in turn in order to observe whether that something is present. And then, in the answer, please state through which of the 6 senses that something has been located -if it has.

So please give it a go with the questions above.

All the best
Dridhamati

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Re: Want to be guided by Drdhamati

Postby lordoflions » Sun Dec 13, 2015 1:45 pm

Hello Dridhamati,

I have been just "scanning" as you mentioned, through the six senses.

Starting with the mind sense. thoughts arrise and there is consciousness of them. "I " am not in control of that when simply observing.

Then there is consciousness of sound. Someone in the street. There is no " I " " me " or " mine" in that event.

Then maybe conciousness of touch arrises. Simply observing it is sensation. There is a " desire" to form an image over this. A body, a form. This desire arrises in dependant on on the arrising of all senses. It tries to posit a " subject" and an " object".

consciousness moves from different sense. Sometimes there is a " background awareness" of one or two other senses. Sometimes one is predominant, like tightness in the belly.

Nothing " I " can find is controlling that. Experiences " pop up" into awareness, then disappear.

When I note that I am following a thought I can see how this conditions other experiences, such as tightness or tension.

There are senses more dominant than others. Mind sense is dominant, on terms of ideas, memories, so is touch, hearing, and sight. Smell and taste are weaker.

These experiences just arrive, and around it I note this strong desire to form an identity , an impression, on " what is happening".

There are impression s around which is formed an idea of what is happening to " me". The " me" is formed out of these impressions, it is not there in just sensate experience.,

I have found going through the senses in this scanning way very useful.

With best wishes. And my apologies for not responding earlier ive been in bed a day and a half!

Sinhendra


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Re: Want to be guided by Drdhamati

Postby dridhamati » Tue Dec 15, 2015 6:50 pm

Hi Sinhendra,

Best wishes for a prompt recovery. And please do take as much time you need to answer.

There is good stuff in your post, thank you for the work.

Now.
Starting with the mind sense. thoughts arrise and there is consciousness of them. "I " am not in control of that when simply observing.
OK.
So is this “I” in control when not observing then?
Then there is consciousness of sound. Someone in the street. There is no " I " " me " or " mine" in that event.
OK.
But is that “someone in the street” what is actually observed through the sense of hearing?
Then maybe conciousness of touch arrises. Simply observing it is sensation.
Simply observing it [consciousness of touch] is sensation.” That's an excellent observation.
And looking at the consciousness arising out of each of the other 5 senses, does this observation still apply?
There is a " desire" to form an image over this. A body, a form. This desire arrises in dependant on on the arrising of all senses. It tries to posit a " subject" and an " object".
And here is another excellent observation.
Without attempting to define what this “desire” is, realising the importance of the process that is described here is crucial. So here an exercise that will test this observation:
- bring the right hand in front of the eyes.
- look attentively at the hand, form a mental image of the hand, based on vision.
- now rest the hand, palm down on the table and close the eyes.
- observe the sensations received via the sense of touch.
- now form a mental image of the hand, based on touch.
- compare the two mental images.
What image best corresponds to the hand? And why?
There are impression s around which is formed an idea of what is happening to " me". The " me" is formed out of these impressions, it is not there in just sensate experience.
And again, another excellent observation.
So,
1. Is there a “something” or “somewhere” that is 'outside sensate experience'?
2. And where then can this “I, me, mine” exist?

I have found going through the senses in this scanning way very useful.
It's a simple yet effective method for observing the mechanism by which the body-mind construct referred to as Sinhendra (or Dridhamati) manifests consciousness.
It is only a method though, not to be confused for an answer.


All the best
Dridhamati


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