Finding NoMe

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NoMe_Nemo
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Finding NoMe

Postby NoMe_Nemo » Fri Oct 16, 2015 11:36 pm

What brings you to Liberation Unleashed?:

Fired, fried, burnt, charred, boiled, broiled, zapped, sliced, diced, hacked, chopped, crushed, puréed, freeze dried.....point made?

What is your background in terms of seeking and inquiry?:

After a sudden Life B!+ch$!@p that stepped in.... No, "Stomped" on all that was thought was real life....You tube. Whatever comes that is pertinent to the time, then when used up, seen thru, something else comes along to drive the inquiry deeper. Beliefs structures collapsing over last several years. Only resonating messages from a few spiritual teachers here and there. Quickly seen when anything was just another method, practice, etc. Realized that the "one seeking" is paradoxically the one who is the illusion. So all those meditations, practices, groups, followings etc "out there" were never chased.
Upanishads were more like U-Punishments and Sat Chit Ananda for me was more like Ana Sat-n-Chit!
Flown solo, lots of solitude and just allowing the miserable (okay I know that's a label) process to unfold.

What do you expect of the conversation on this forum?:

I Realize the expectations are from that of the illusion of a character with a name. Still, there is identification with an essence, aliveness, intelligence, maybe not identification but a recognition of? This is where there is separation currently existing... A " this" noticing "That" but .....sticky Velcro here because words fall away. So, expectations? Yes, peace, mostly in the body that's been in such violent upheaval for last decade. Bottom line, No Clue! :-/
Have read the online gateless gate and driven iniquity deeper even still. I feel it's time to get the one on one pointing needed to really shove it up deep and break it off inside. Ok, it's graphic, but this is bare boneless bones truthless Truth now, for this one in rapid dissolution! All in great agonizing fun!!!
Much appreciation and great thanks in advance!

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Re: Finding NoMe

Postby unplugged » Sat Oct 17, 2015 9:55 pm

Hi NoMe_Nemo,

Welcome to the forum!

Is there another name you would like to be called besides nome_nemo?

My name is Dyann and I would be happy to be your guide if that is alright with you?

If so, there are just a few guidelines I will need you to agree to, k?

Thank you, Dyann

1. You agree to post at least once a day.
2. In general, the guide will ask the questions for you to respond to
3. Responses require your utmost honesty
4. Responses are best from direct experience (felt senses and observed thoughts). Longwinded
analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress.
5. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies and such for the remainder of this investigation.
Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily and
essential meditation practice, it is fine to continue that.
6. Please learn to use the quote function; instructions are located in the link below this line:
http://liberationunleashed.com/nation/v ... ?f=4&t=660

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NoMe_Nemo
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Re: Finding NoMe

Postby NoMe_Nemo » Sat Oct 17, 2015 10:41 pm

Hello Dyann,
Thank you for taking the time for some pointing. I am Ashley, and im ready to dedicate only with this forum/method. I've been applying the cases from the PDF of gateless gate and videos and allowing the unfolding and feel much less resistance, first in 13 months.
All in agreement. If I cannot post I will alert, I live quite remote and internet is not always reliable.

Let's burn away!
Much appreciation for your time and help,
Ashley

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Re: Finding NoMe

Postby unplugged » Sun Oct 18, 2015 4:39 am

Hi Ashley,

Looking forward to working with you. Glad to hear you are finding less resistance as you read LU literature! Let's get started....

What are your expectations for liberation? How will this feel? How will this change you?

Thank you, Dyann

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Re: Finding NoMe

Postby NoMe_Nemo » Sun Oct 18, 2015 4:59 pm

Hi Dyann,
Expectation. Looked into this....bottom line I can't find anyone who is actually having /doing the expecting, but there is no doubt there exists an expectation. And from there comes fog? But I see (ok I've got to insert here that There will be slippage in writing first person....There is understanding, vs I understand....etc I can handle, can be handled...the difference is known because there is No I that is the director, manager, control freak.)
Ok, sorry to digress.
Clarity! Clarity is expectation, is sought.
How will it feel? Again back to an expectation, loss for words here, but this body is so tired, the mind is tired of what is so hoped to be a long challenging housecleaning that has kept -the body - bedridden for 13 months. That story has dropped and reality of the present moment seems to be expanding, again no words, but then again... Nothing has changed? Doubts arise, but then even this is seen thru somewhat as result of thoughts arising and judgment placed, labeling and comparing to the past. So, peace.....calmer seas. Paradoxically it's been like the seas have always been calm, but the ship itself has been it's own cat 5 hurricane. Allowing this as the process to release lifelong resistance.
Change me? it's seen there is not a me, (oh mind pipes up and screams this is only intellectually!) but still beyond those fears this is obvious, no me, other than a label that has for decades attempted to fool creation that a piece of existence had been successfully pulled out and wrapped up like a,piece of candy, (or ...) and labeled Me, Ashley. But really it's more like a water pie, can't be cut, done, never was. So what will change? Change occurs every moment. Impossible for anything outside, inside, within creation (all that is) to separately control or change this, ironically, or stop this....there only may arise 'an appearance' of this idea that it can be stopped, changed. Like all life is layers of paradoxes. Like zooming in is really zooming out, to reveal the truth, the real picture that there is no separation, no inside/outside.
Doubts I'm deepening on...there's deepening....is this just still intellectual? There is no aha moment, so the mind hopes it's just so very subtly occurring this recognition of flow....etc. There has been NO feeling, seeing, whatever of any Oneness. Flow yes, perhaps there is a recognition of some sort of blending? This is the 'nothing has changed' feeling...and then mind pipes up and says...."doubt!" This is recognized and caught and freight train of doubtful thoughts derailed.
Sorry to be so wordy. I'm probably going to be your worst case scenario... I've spoken to no one in any 'true' depth during this entire process (decade, 8 yrs solitude) except my husband. Even this story is dropping and seen just as a necessary process to drop mind's negatively patterned thoughts, and their cause of suffering. Perhaps some validation sought here? Strong feeling to be here only Now! So, great appreciation to you and this site's mission!
Thank you!

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Re: Finding NoMe

Postby unplugged » Mon Oct 19, 2015 12:47 am

Hi Ashley,

It sounds like you have really been going through quite a lot for sometime now!

As we work together, our focus will be very narrow, questioning and pointing to your seeing through the illusion of self. It sounds like you know already that there is no "I". We will continue through the process to make sure, alright?

For our purposes, it will be best to drop any and all expectations as they can impede progress, k?

What comes up when it is read that there is absolutely no “you” in any way, shape or form,
there never has been a “you”, nor is there or will be there ever be?

Thank you, Dyann

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Re: Finding NoMe

Postby NoMe_Nemo » Mon Oct 19, 2015 12:52 am

Hi Dyann,
Expectation is dropping...life is flowing.
Ready to boil any bad bunnies with fangs lurking! Cast iron Kettle's on the pit set ablaze:-)

No Ashley

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Re: Finding NoMe

Postby unplugged » Mon Oct 19, 2015 12:55 am

Hi Ashley - can you answer the question: What comes up when it is read that there is absolutely no “you” in any way, shape or form,there never has been a “you”, nor is there or will be there ever be? Thanks, Dyann

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Re: Finding NoMe

Postby NoMe_Nemo » Mon Oct 19, 2015 1:26 am

I'm going to sit with this. This is the first one on one pointing I've had, so don't want to rush. There's an answer, but feel to drive deep. Will get back after some sitting with this.
Up till a few days ago, before starting the gateless gate cases, enormous upheaval of sheer terror in body, and mind floundering over the idea of non existence, which is far worse than death (this was experienced) and then deep sadness and anguish over stupid, but still legit, ideas that all life is nonexistent as well. I see all this as body purging, and clarifying old patterns of thought and memories that don't fit the new desires to know what this game's all about.
Thanks Dyan
Ashley

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Re: Finding NoMe

Postby NoMe_Nemo » Mon Oct 19, 2015 3:30 am

Hi Dyann,
Perhaps some shifting, or whatever, occurring. There was some surprise with just how much emptiness with this question,..,but an emptiness not associated with any negative connotation, but a very fresh, new and meaningless feeling words cannot describe. Up until now, emptiness was full of negativity of all sorts, accompanied by a body in freaking nuclear meltdown.
It's like you asked how's it feel to know I'm not Santa Clause, or Wonder Woman. I've always known....no... It just never arose to consider if I ever was Santa or WW! Isn't that silly? So why ponder how it'd feel knowing I never was, nor ever will be?
Beyond your question now just to expound, and have you as a soundboard? If too much, let me know and I'll cut the further musings to just your immediate questions. Sometimes this helps in connecting the dotless dots, clarity.
The idea if the imaginary watermelon was a huge help ( this remembered from GG, so adding it here)...I added to it, imagining to drop the watermelon on my foot. No matter how much and how real I try to make this watermelon, or how hard I throw it down on my foot, no physical pain is felt in my foot! Why? Because it's imaginary. So apply this to a "Me".... And holy $#!+ how the imaginations reinforced by conditioning over a lifetime did make the feelings, emotions seem real, raw and ragged in this body, to the point of total shutdown.
Point being how we turn mere imaginations into such convincing truth, our body and psyche believes and even comes to live, exist by it!
Perhaps a sticky point here... What's felt is this persistent uniqueness that is only associated with the "package deal" named Ashley, and aliveness, essence unique to none other, like a snowflake, a fingerprint, no two are alike. And the "life" or animation within, is only felt within this "package." This package is not imaginary, the label, and the label believing it is the ruler of it's kingdom isn't real.
But the honesty here is that there is no feeling, seeing of "oneness" other than what's obvious (to this body's receiving senses ) right now, the feet connect the floor, ass connects the chair, air connects/ touches the body, which connects the walls which connects,...on and on. What flows is knowing if I took a rapid series of snapshot, there's infinite change in each photo, within the body and outside too; cells divide, hair grows, clock ticks, wood rots, metal rusts, glass in windows flows slowly, grass grows, birds fly, etc. But there's no feeling that outside of this body, that which is alive in the body is not felt alive outside of it. If this makes sense? This "I'm one with the universe" sounds like total bs in a spiritual toilet...it's not experienced here! (Flush)
It's almost like the saying that life's greatest gift is that everything is meaningless, is finally being realized, in a good way since the judgment is suspended, There's been so much sitting and burning away of some tough beliefs, esp human morals, to see the bigger picture and then that there is no picture, was never a picture, because a picture is defined by a story, by labels, perceptions...generated by a mind....?

Thanks
Ashley

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Re: Finding NoMe

Postby unplugged » Mon Oct 19, 2015 8:07 pm

Hi Ashley,
enormous upheaval of sheer terror in body, and mind floundering over the idea of non existence, which is far worse than death (this was experienced)
I want to help clarify a couple of things that may help. It is common that people will feel fear when beginning to realize the illusion of self. Also, you (I use that word lightly) will not disappear or be non-existent. Your body, thoughts and feelings are real and will remain so after going through the gate.
This "I'm one with the universe" sounds like total bs in a spiritual toilet...it's not experienced here!
A couple of points here: first, our purpose here is to see what you are not rather than what you are so let's leave the oneness with the universe stuff out of the conversation for now, k? That falls into expectation and the truth is that the consequences of seeing no self are different for everyone and nothing is guaranteed. Some people feel oneness, others don't.

So, let get back to our question, k? What comes up when it is read that there is absolutely no “you” in any way, shape or form, there never has been a “you”, nor is there or will be there ever be?”

Thank you, Dyann

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Re: Finding NoMe

Postby NoMe_Nemo » Tue Oct 20, 2015 6:21 am

Hi Dyann,
Thanks for the clarifications.
Back to your question: how's it feel etc?
I made the point that it's just ridiculous! Just as ridiculous as If you'd asked how would I feel if I was Santa or Wonder Woman.
There is no self, no Me. And the amount of effort, agonizing at times, my god! (Just an expression) put into the search for something that is just not there! But as continued today, keen focus to keep recognizing the patterns of thought that are...seem so damn alive...I know they are not, but the doubts, and the smug remark that what is gleaned is mere intellectual philosophy. But too, there is no doubt a Me can't be found. It's not even a ghost, a ghost exists, but self,me, doesn't.

I think it's the sensations of just such a focused existence, aliveness in this body, coupled by patterns that used to be layered thick and deep, burying, suffocating, drowning out the ...what? The misidentification of the experience. There's not a me that can be suffocated, but perhaps now that these noisy patterns of doubt, fear, "Mother". ..etc etc etc are actually spaced away from each other..this is really hard to explain, but so obvious now to recognize as just exactly what it is...distraction, protection of the fear beliefs. If bought into, the body reacts, can, may react. But Mind is becoming very still, a deep stillness, but feels so alive, like a father patiently, quietly watching over his sleeping kid.
Lastly, I really think I'm over the fear of disintegration, demise,etc. And the sadness that if I die, so does everyone else...Duh. How silly! These last few days have been the first in over a year now that my chest and gut has been free of gripping pain of anxiety and anguish...when inquired repeatedly wave after wave I'd get answers like pain of the world, pain of life goal, which lead to family love based solely in fear, rejection, etc all the crap everyone experiences on some level, many levels and varying degrees. It was definitely an intense period of unlayering, the last doozie being actual birth trauma. Self inquiry is the only method that ever resonated, that's how I ended up here.
When I see a sea of people on the beach, no pun intended, I noticed today that I don't see people, I see bodies full of life animation, but even to say that is still saying too much of what I experience! There is just joy being experience, fun being shared, etc. So this was kinda cool. The mind isn't labeling, judging, making a news report about it.
Ok, thanks for all. And thanks for allowing the ramblings for more clarity. Your input has helped immensely in allowing more dropping of $#!+;-)

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Re: Finding NoMe

Postby unplugged » Tue Oct 20, 2015 9:28 pm

There is no self, no Me.
Excellent. You are very clear Ashley.
there is no doubt a Me can't be found
Yep :)
But Mind is becoming very still, a deep stillness
Nice.
These last few days have been the first in over a year now that my chest and gut has been free of gripping pain of anxiety and anguish
So glad you are feeling some relief.

Lets continue..."What does the word "I" or "me" point to, here and now?"
“In direct experience, can you find an “I” that experiences experience?”
“Is there a seer separate from the seen?”
“Is there a hearer that hears?”

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Re: Finding NoMe

Postby NoMe_Nemo » Wed Oct 21, 2015 12:40 am

I, me points to a body that is unique, thoughts that love to tantalize, but that's recognized...by a separate me from the body mind? No.
Is there an I experiencing experiences?
Deep honesty here...there is not a label "I" but there feels that the body mind combo is experiencing experiences...body, skin feels hot in direct Texas sun, emotions release when certain thoughts arise, etc...only to This body/mind! no one else on the beach is experiencing the exact same things at the same moment. so yes, there feels there is something (body/mind) experiencing different experiences. There is No feeling "I am the experience." That is, there is not any feeling that there lacks differentiation between experience and experiencer and experiencing.....?
A seer separate from the seen?
Yes, the eyes that are seeing are clearly separate from the ocean it's watching. Seeing and seen are seen as separate.
A hearer that hears?
Yes, same thing, the ears hearing the ocean waves making their crashing noise ?
But there is not a separate entity apart from this unique body/mind having these experiences. Nothing controlling them, they are just happening, as always.
Stimulus- response are not being seen as the same thing.
Maybe I've not a clue what's being asked? Or it's that Oneness stuff that is just not felt, seen, experienced. This body and all of it's sensing capacities are all separate from that which induces their responses.
Right now mind is screaming that this is why this Me, No Me is just a concept. ..? But it's screaming is seen as just another thought arising, and that's okay. Frustration that would normally follow, doesn't.
I think the fog has rolled in thick again?! Honest fog, at least.

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Re: Finding NoMe

Postby NoMe_Nemo » Wed Oct 21, 2015 1:36 am

Ok, I've stepped off the 'short bus' and think I understand your questions better.
Seer implies a separate entity , a someone separate from the sensing ability to see....the eyes are not a living separate entity, they are just the seeing instrument.
So....no, there is not a me Who is seeing, or doing the seeing. Me = seer. Though I admit these kinds of questions jumble the simplicity I'm used to. I'm a scientist not a philosopher, so apologies.
Same for the hearer hearing....no. There is just ears hearing what can be heard, but what is experiencing the noise is still seen as a separate unique existence, (say, from your unique existence) alive in a body with a mind that also has thought unique to it too. The Only thing that has dropped is the label that believed itself into a ruler of it's kingdom. King Me and Queen Be in the land of Make Life Miserable to Believe.
Thanks for your patience Dyann!


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