Charles M

This is a read-only part of the forum. All threads where seeing happens are stored here and come from this forum, the Facebook guiding area and various LU blogs. The complete list, sorted by guide, contains all links. The archives include threads of those that came to LU already seeing as well.
User avatar
charlesm
Posts: 30
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2015 2:31 pm

Charles M

Postby charlesm » Fri Oct 16, 2015 2:33 pm

What brings you to Liberation Unleashed?:
To complete the last step.

What is your background in terms of seeking and inquiry?:
A while back I went through the 100 episodes off urban gru coffee which got me into non duality conceptually. Iv'e done some Rumi style eye to eye gazing in a group and with Tim Freak, Lived next too and listened to the talks of thich nhat hanh. I follow a nature spirituality path.

What do you expect of the conversation on this forum?:
Some pointing to something that I conceptually know about but am not getting, feeling understanding with my body.

User avatar
minddweller
Posts: 89
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:40 am

Re: Charles M

Postby minddweller » Sat Oct 17, 2015 9:50 am

Hello Charles,

Minddweller here. I'd be delighted to be your guide. Thanks for your introduction. Keeping an open mind is key here so I invite you to put all your books to one side for the duration of our dialogue. If you have an ongoing meditation practice that is fine though, you can keep this up.

In order to
complete this last step
I'd also ask you to answer my questions as honestly as you can and from direct experience. Direct experience is hinted at poetically in these words of Rumi

“Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing
and rightdoing there is a field.
I'll meet you there.

When the soul lies down in that grass
the world is too full to talk about.”

So this field is the field of direct experience. All I ask of you to do is to look, rather than trying to work something it out through thinking.

Nothing mysterious here, just looking and sensing what is going on through the 5 senses, that is: what is seen, heard, tasted, touched and smelled.

Try this:
Imagine the taste of an apple. Get it as clear and vivid in your mind as possible.

Now get yourself an apple, bite into it. What is the experience like?

Compare these two experiences. One is direct experience the other is thinking about experience. Can you tell the difference?

We'll no doubt go into this as we dialogue further. Needless to say, this is about looking directly into experience and not about theorising about experience and so as far as possible we'll both try to keep to what is directly experienced.

I will ask you to write and answer my questions frequently, at least once a day is good, and I will do my utmost to do so myself.

If you haven't done so already please also read this:
http://liberationunleashed.com/nation/v ... f=4&t=2109
and use the qoute function as described here, to always make it clear what is responded to:
http://liberationunleashed.com/nation/v ... ?f=4&t=660

OK, bite into the apple and let me know when you are ready and we'll get going.
Warm wishes,
Minddweller (Mind, MD is also fine)

User avatar
minddweller
Posts: 89
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:40 am

Re: Charles M

Postby minddweller » Mon Oct 19, 2015 5:07 pm

Hello Charles,
I see how I may have overwhelmed you with too much info in my last post. Sorry about that.
So I take it you're French then. Is that correct? I'm Swedish but live in Spain.

User avatar
charlesm
Posts: 30
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2015 2:31 pm

Re: Charles M

Postby charlesm » Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:27 am

Hi there Minddweller.

I was not ready to start for a couple of days as I had a trip away from the cyber world and was walking in the Lake District with my best friends for my birth day.

Should I call you Minddweller

Ready and willing NOW…

Charles

User avatar
minddweller
Posts: 89
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:40 am

Re: Charles M

Postby minddweller » Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:14 am

Hello Charles,
Ah, Lake District is beautiful!
If Minddweller is a bit labour some I'm happy with 'md' or even just 'M'.
I was curious about what you wrote in your opening post that what brings you here is 'to complete the last step'. Would you be willing to expand a little on this? How you see these steps to be taken etc. It'll just give me more of a sense of where you are coming from.
Warm wishes,
M

User avatar
charlesm
Posts: 30
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2015 2:31 pm

Re: Charles M

Postby charlesm » Thu Oct 22, 2015 8:35 am

Hi M

To complete the last step in waking up I get the notion conceptionaly but I have not embodied the oneness of the non dual life. I'm still an "I" most of the time with a few moments of connection during the day. The next steps are a series of questions that will lead me to get a direct authentic view of what is being here.

Thanks

Charles

User avatar
minddweller
Posts: 89
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:40 am

Re: Charles M

Postby minddweller » Thu Oct 22, 2015 12:55 pm

Hi Charles,
Really nice to read a reply from you today. And thanks for expanding on what you meant by 'completing the last step', it is helpful. It works best if we both commit to writing frequently, once a day is a good aim. I also invite you to reply with 100% honesty to my questions. It is not about getting it right, it is about getting real.
I'm still an "I" most of the time with a few moments of connection during the day.
This is the belief we are going to examine deeply through our dialogue here.

Have you had a chance to do the little 'apple experiment' I suggested in my first ever reply to you? If not, I invite you to do it now and write back to me what you've discovered. Like you say, you already know this conceptually, so try not doing the exercise from that place, do it as an exercise in being embodied.

OK, look forward to hear how this went.
warm wishes,
M

User avatar
charlesm
Posts: 30
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2015 2:31 pm

Re: Charles M

Postby charlesm » Thu Oct 22, 2015 1:51 pm

Hi M

Just did the apple experiment.

Imagination:
Hard to break through the skin, a semi pappy texture in the mouth, fresh crisp almost citrus.
The experience :
Crunch, juicy, applely, skin very flavoursome, skin stuck between my teeth, I want more, One of my teeth hurts so I'm not biting with that side of my mouth.

That's the sum of it.

Thanks M, have a beautiful day :)

User avatar
minddweller
Posts: 89
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:40 am

Re: Charles M

Postby minddweller » Thu Oct 22, 2015 4:39 pm

Hi Charles,

Thanks for that, some good observations! I would, like yourself, put 'crunch' (heard), 'juicy' (touched), 'flavoursome' (tasted) in what is directly experienced through the senses but the
I want more
and
One of my teeth hurts so I'm not biting with that side of my mouth
in the 'thinking about experience' category. That is all story. (I believe your story though and hope the pain goes away!)

Just to be sure I now invite you to:

Take a few breaths, slow right down for a minute. No rush here.

How about right now. Don't turn around. What is seen behind you? What is your direct experience of that?

How about this? Can you see your face right now? Point your index finger at it for a few seconds. Is any face actually seen there?

Is this getting any clearer?

Have fun!

I wish you a beautiful rest of the day too!
M

User avatar
charlesm
Posts: 30
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2015 2:31 pm

Re: Charles M

Postby charlesm » Thu Oct 22, 2015 5:06 pm

Nothing is seen behind me!
I can't see my face. No face is seen there, or here!
Yes a little shift, a recognition in the slightest sense.

So far so go I am still here!

Have a joyful evening.

Charles

User avatar
minddweller
Posts: 89
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:40 am

Re: Charles M

Postby minddweller » Fri Oct 23, 2015 10:15 am

Hello Charles,
Nothing is seen behind me!
I can't see my face. No face is seen there, or here!
Now you're really looking, great! When I ask you to look into direct experience from now on, it is looking like that, looking at what is seen, heard, touched, tasted, smelled, and thought.

We are just easing into things here but now you are clear about what I mean when I say direct experience as opposed to storyland, right?

Before we go any further I need you to read this:

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

If you could confirm you have read the disclaimer and would like me to be your guide- then we shall begin.
Hear from you soon,
M

User avatar
charlesm
Posts: 30
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2015 2:31 pm

Re: Charles M

Postby charlesm » Fri Oct 23, 2015 1:34 pm

Goodday M

Iv'e read and confirm that I agree with the terms of the disclaimer. "Spiritual tourists will be taken to the airlock and launched into deep space" LOL

Charles

User avatar
minddweller
Posts: 89
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:40 am

Re: Charles M

Postby minddweller » Fri Oct 23, 2015 2:29 pm

Good afternoon Charles,

Yes, I find that sentence brings a smile on my face too. Thanks for reading and accepting the disclaimer. :-)

What comes up when you read this?

There is absolutely no 'you' in any way, shape or form, there never has been a 'you', nor is there or will there ever be a 'you'.

warm wishes,
M

User avatar
charlesm
Posts: 30
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2015 2:31 pm

Re: Charles M

Postby charlesm » Fri Oct 23, 2015 3:54 pm

What comes up for me is "bullshit" what you are saying is abstract maybe you get that, but where I am it's not the case, of cause there's a me who is. Sorry but this is what comes up for me I my direct experience.

User avatar
minddweller
Posts: 89
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:40 am

Re: Charles M

Postby minddweller » Fri Oct 23, 2015 5:19 pm

Hello again,
I'm currently ill so have lots of time dialoguing with you.

Thanks for sharing that honest response Charles and no reason to apologise, I asked for it. :-)

So it is not unusual that fear should turn up at times when going through this process. If it does just welcome it, thank it even, it's just doing its job of protecting this self image and belief, keeping it intact and safe, even when in fact there is no real threat, even when what is threatened is imagined.

So welcome the fear if it arises. Thank it even. Then look for what it is protecting, look behind the fear, what's there?

Talking about abstract ideas. Let's look at the labelling machine we call the mind.

OK here is a little experiment:

First write what you are experiencing right now using the words 'I' and 'me'. Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just plain description of here and now.

Like this-
I am laying in bed. I am hearing the rain, I am typing these words...etc

Do it for 10 minutes. Watch the body, are there any sensations of tightening or relaxing?

Then for next 10 minutes write without the words 'I' and 'me'. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs:
Waiting for next thought, typing, breathing, blinking, hearing the rain.

Again watch what is happening in the body.

Finally compare the two ways of labelling experience- is one truer than the other? If so, which one? What is here without the labels? Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

Look forward to hear from you soon,
M


Return to “ARCHIVES”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests