How do I escape the tyranny of my thinking?

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noselfintexas
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How do I escape the tyranny of my thinking?

Postby noselfintexas » Fri Oct 09, 2015 4:31 am

What brings you to Liberation Unleashed?:
Pam Roux my Trans personal psychologist introduced me to this site. I am in a spiritual crisis and I believe this is my opportunity to wake up and I am green lighting my process, but I need help, please.

What is your background in terms of seeking and inquiry?:
I have been seeking for as long as I remember. Most recently I have been involved in Scott Kiloby's Rupert Spira's non-duality work. I find self inquiry difficult and was advised that you have a very powerful process.

What do you expect of the conversation on this forum?:
Just some guidance and a feeling of not being alone in all of this.

******************************************************************************************************************

Hello I have been engaged in a conversation via email but I would like to request a guide who could help me here on the forum.
Since arriving here on the forum last week things are completely different and the same. This time last week I was in anguish and desperately searching and in the grips of tyranny thinking but through Elizabeth's patience and reading Gateless Gatecrashers and watching the videos on the site, the burning desire for "the answer" has all but dissipated.
What is left is body contractions and some anxiety-no longer with the same charge and no desire to "fix it" just an awareness of it.
The best way to describe it is that although I know that Santa doesn't exist, I keep looking for the presents. Its more a sport and its difficult to describe in words but the sense of things is just completely different but the game of looking for the presents still sucks me in at times.
More peace is happening, more joy and more love and lots of questions keep popping up.

Anyone willing to look with me? There seems so much more to look at.
Jocelyn

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Bill
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Re: How do I escape the tyranny of my thinking?

Postby Bill » Tue Oct 13, 2015 6:01 am

Hello Jocelyn,

It has been very busy lately here on the forum as you can see.
If you are still wanting a guide, I would be happy to point for you.

Before we start, you mentioned that you were in spiritual crisis...
What do you mean by that? please explain with some detail.

Bill

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noselfintexas
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Re: How do I escape the tyranny of my thinking?

Postby noselfintexas » Thu Oct 15, 2015 10:12 pm

Hello Bill thank you for replying I so appreciate your time. I am not sure why I didn't see this reply on Monday.

Well I was in a spiritual crisis but so much has changed since then as I have been working with Elizabeth via email.
I was seeking at such a high level of intensity that I felt quite unable to contain myself. She is unable to work with me here on the forum and admin asked if I could please continue the conversation here so here I am indeed.

Seeing the thoughts as arising and not actually belonging to a separate me has brought peace.

There is still much anxiety and reading Illona's blog I see that's to be expected as seeing does not automatically mean there is no more work to be done to release these emotions. The intensity of the searching has completely dissipated. Whats left are sensations and labeling. Questioning.

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Bill
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Re: How do I escape the tyranny of my thinking?

Postby Bill » Fri Oct 16, 2015 4:37 am

Glad you're here Jocelyn.
I know Elizabeth well if its the Liz I'm thinking of. She is a very good guide.

Let's see where you are first with things.
You could, if you like, just give me a rant on what took place, what you saw and where you are now.
Write as much and as detailed as you would like.
No need to rush. Please be thorough.
This will help me know where and how to proceed.

Let's put the anxiety and emotion issue on the back burner for a short while.

A few bits of housekeeping before we get started..
Some guidelines that I would like your agreement on:

1) Agree to post daily or near daily, email if you are not able.

2) Please set aside any other spiritual practices during this inquiry. Instead commit at this time, like you would for a meditation practice, to begin looking for this separate self, this "I"

3) I will ask questions and you answer.... listen very closely to the answers that arise in you.
Answer to the very best of your ability at that time.

If you could confirm you have seen all the above and are in agreement, we can go ahead and get started.

I look forward to your short story on what happened.

Bill

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noselfintexas
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Re: How do I escape the tyranny of my thinking?

Postby noselfintexas » Fri Oct 16, 2015 5:56 pm

Hello Bill,

I agree to all your terms and thank you again.

Here is the rant;
I moved to The US from South Africa at the end of December 2014 and have found the immigration process extremely tough.

I got divorced in 2007 and spent 7 years as a single mom, building a life and business and although it was tough financially, it was full and relatively happy. Full of people and activities and spiritual workshops where I made more human connections, basically I created a happy and fulfilled life despite the ups and downs. But I was always a seeker. This idea that there was something missing, something I couldn't see. Some way I could "improve" in fact as I write this now my main problem wasn't my life but it was with me. It seems strange to write that because from working with Elizabeth, perhaps the greatest change has been that I don't take life so personally. "I" am no longer my biggest problem. "I" am not a problem at all.

There was a longing to "feel" God in my every day experience. And I searched for God everywhere. (smile)

In a way, that I now get life spontaneously happens and takes care of itself. I met a man who lived in the US out on holiday to visit his family. To tell you that I met him the day before he was due to fly back to The US and that he ended up staying an extra week should give you a hint of the magic and spontaneity that has been our relationship from the beginning. Effortless in fact, despite myself and God knows I have been destructive enough to do damage when I am unhappy or stressed. Yet from the first time he put his arm around me and I felt myself "leaning into him",not a normal Jocelyn response, to our current day to day growth in love and respect I have marveled at how that side of my life takes care of itself. Perhaps a clue? (smile)

So within a few months of meeting I moved to The US to be with him, leaving my busy life and most importantly leaving my family. I am extremely close to my sister and I have a daughter who is 21 years old and my parents are both still alive and well.

My life in The US could not be more of a polar opposite to that in Johannesburg. I spend 5 days a week alone in a retail store where I would often not see a customer for a couple of days and not being able to pop over to my sisters for lunch or be there for my daughters graduation was heart breaking. Sadness arises in my heart area even as I write this. I have never felt so abandoned by and separate from God. It was agony.

And I searched for God! Everywhere! I ranted at God for forsaking me. It was a drama I can tell you. How could I have met the man of my dreams at the expense of everything else in my life. You get the idea, wailing and gnashing of teeth all around. (laughing now) In fact I could not have told this story without the drama this time last week.

But today there is more peace, opening and loving and even resting.

I am so looking forward to exploring this space with you, thank you again for taking the time.
J

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noselfintexas
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Re: How do I escape the tyranny of my thinking?

Postby noselfintexas » Fri Oct 16, 2015 6:16 pm

Hi Bill,

Just a question- is it ok to read the Facebook posts in the LU group and also Gateless Gatecrashers? Or should I stick only to this questioning here?

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Re: How do I escape the tyranny of my thinking?

Postby Bill » Fri Oct 16, 2015 6:35 pm

Yes, anything on our site is fine.
Thank you for filling in the blanks here.
Now, bring us current from last week up till now.

What happened with Elizabeth?
What did you see?
What's different now?

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noselfintexas
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Re: How do I escape the tyranny of my thinking?

Postby noselfintexas » Fri Oct 16, 2015 10:35 pm

What happened with Elizabeth?

In our first email she said to me, "welcome, who are you.'
Oh and I was so clever in my response at the speed of light I sent her my reply. How I wanted to show her just how much spiritual work I had done and that I was so "way ahead" of the game. So way ahead that of course I didn't even answer the question!
She replied with "there is no time frame within which you have to answer. If you don't know then just see what comes up." Gentle enough of a slap but for the overachiever a slap nonetheless.
AAARGH I was doing it wrong-panic. "You see, you will never get this. You are too dumb to do this differently."
You get the idea of the self talk.

What did you see?

Driving on the way home was when I realised that in fact I hadn't answered the question. Who am I?
An idea was the answer that came, in fact a whole lot of ideas and thoughts. A moment of clarity but it didn't last.
The next morning I read a quote on The LU app about Fear and that sometimes this is intense. It asked the question, Is it true that there is no separate self whatsoever in reality?
Then it was there, I couldn't actually find a me that existed in reality. What I could find was the sense of everything just happening spontaneously without a "driver" so to speak. "I" was just humaning just like a tree was just treeing.

What's different now?[/quote]

Actually nothing and everything. For one thing life seems to be taking care of itself this is a massive shift in perspective from persecuting myself and others for any failure to measure up. Not taking life so personally is really freeing.

Doing my normal morning walk through the nature reserve, things do seem different somehow. Brighter and the struggle is gone and that desperate need to search has disappeared. I used to spend my morning walks in my head chanting mantras or something from A Course in Miracles anything in an effort to "get rid of" my negative thinking. As if I could ever think my way out. My inbox is flooded with mails from every spiritual guru but I am completely disinterested in any of them. So when anxiety comes or there an emotional charge in my body there is some distance and an allowing and inquiry rather than the desperate need to have the anxiety go.

"I" would prefer to not have the anxiety but its grip is less anyway without the stream of thinking velcroed to it.

I read Ilona's blog yesterday and did her Deep looking process- really helpful and I used it again today with avoidance.

But there is stuff that is sticky. Thoughts that carry more weight or that repeat and circle. Body contractions.

From Ilonas blog I have taken this as merely layers that need to be worked with and the message that arises is to do with my expectations and to use whats in front of me. Whatever is there is the clue.

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Re: How do I escape the tyranny of my thinking?

Postby noselfintexas » Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:01 pm

Restlessness is present today. Just letting life take care of itself is a new way of being and it seems that knowledge doesn't always equal a new habit straight out the gate. Also a sensitivity to situations then remembering and laughing at myself.

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Re: How do I escape the tyranny of my thinking?

Postby Bill » Sat Oct 17, 2015 6:04 pm

Thank you Jocelyn for the update.
Sounds like quite a bit has gone on in the last week or so.
Let me ask you a few questions and we'll take it from there.


What is your reaction when I say that the you that you think you are is not real?
That there is no I/you in real life, none.... zero.
That if looked for, this 'I' can't be found.
That there's just life... flowing.
Just what is.

What comes up for you?
Feelings, thoughts, reactions, sensations.... list all and any that come for you.

****
Are you still seeking anything?
If so what is it?

****

What do you want to happen from being here in this dialogue?

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noselfintexas
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Re: How do I escape the tyranny of my thinking?

Postby noselfintexas » Sun Oct 18, 2015 3:01 pm

Thank you Jocelyn for the update.
Sounds like quite a bit has gone on in the last week or so.
Let me ask you a few questions and we'll take it from there..
What is your reaction when I say that the you that you think you are is not real?
That there is no I/you in real life, none.... zero.
That if looked for, this 'I' can't be found.
That there's just life... flowing.
Just what is.?

What comes up for you?
Feelings, thoughts, reactions, sensations.... list all and any that come for you.
primarily what has been coming up over the past few days is a sense of relief. Life taking care of itself is freeing. Not taking life personally has a lightness and an ease to it in comparison to the struggle and resistance to every moment that I was engaged in before coming to this forum. I was at war with God the world and of course myself and now there is nothing left of that. Even intense feelings which arise now are not war. They are just thoughts and sensations and some are stronger than others and some recur but there is no resistance to them and so they come and go. (Smile) I expected transcendence from all intense feelings and thoughts but no. There is a response to that thought which says 'what about everything in front of you, did you not understand?' Funny
There is a sensation of rest or relaxing.
****
Are you still seeking anything?
If so what is it?
No seeking, no interest in the full inbox of emails from everybody from Oprah to conversations with God. That urgency has left. A little boredom in that. Seeking was such a fulfilling past time in itself. (More smiles) now what? Whatever appears I guess. Instead of seeking there is more looking and noticing what's appearing. Feels exciting actually.
****
What do you want to happen from being here in this dialogue?
Well it's interesting but all of this is so obvious the question that I may be missing something is stil there. A sense of 'just in case'
Who is missing it? Missing what?
Beliefs in this magical enlightenment still surface and then move along.

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Bill
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Re: How do I escape the tyranny of my thinking?

Postby Bill » Sun Oct 18, 2015 5:30 pm

Thank you Jocelyn for your response.

Feelings will still come up.. sometimes even more intense than the past.
It can be like a filter that was there before is now gone.
Of course each person will experience this differently...

I noticed a few things you repeated along the lines of expecting something 'more':
I expected transcendence from all intense feelings and thoughts but no.

Beliefs in this magical enlightenment still surface and then move along.
Expections are certainly here and lets look at some common ones that people have
with this waking up business... Please let me know if any of these trigger a response in you.
Or resisitance. Its important we look at whatever comes up.
Please look at your current direct experience when reading through these...

What waking up is not.
This was a consensus from several LU guides over a two week period.

This is not about convincing anyone of anything.
This is not a self improvement program.
This is not about gaining a particular bit of knowledge.
This is not about having a certain thought or sequence of thoughts
This is not about stopping thoughts, changing thoughts, or getting rid of thoughts.
This is not a trick of the mind, or twisting the mind into believing certain thoughts.
This is not about cultivating an altered state of consciousness.
This is not a belief, religion, or a philosophy, nor is it magical or mystical.
This is not about gaining something extra, becoming something special.
This is not something that will lead to accumulation of money or things.
This is not about becoming a holy, good, moral or better person.
This is not going to lead you to eternal peace and happiness, it is not about happiness.
This is not a way to get free of depression or other diseases.
This is not about freedom from emotions and intense feelings.
This is not a way to escape your daily life.
This is not a way to make the story of you disappear.
This is not about getting rid of self, ego, I

What comes up for you? Look at your current direct experience.

---------------

After looking at those... take a short break and then do this little exercise:

Look and tell me what is going on for you right now.
what is your direct experience at this moment?
Be as detailed as you feel is needed.

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Re: How do I escape the tyranny of my thinking?

Postby noselfintexas » Sun Oct 18, 2015 10:14 pm

Thank you Jocelyn for your response.

Feelings will still come up.. sometimes even more intense than the past.
It can be like a filter that was there before is now gone.
Of course each person will experience this differently...
Heightened experience of this today as you have described.
I noticed a few things you repeated along the lines of expecting something 'more':

I expected transcendence from all intense feelings and thoughts but no.

Beliefs in this magical enlightenment still surface and then move along
Expections are certainly here and lets look at some common ones that people have
with this waking up business... Please let me know if any of these trigger a response in you.
Or resisitance. Its important we look at whatever comes up.
Please look at your current direct experience when reading through these...

What waking up is not.
This was a consensus from several LU guides over a two week period.

This is not about convincing anyone of anything.
This is not a self improvement program.
This is not about gaining a particular bit of knowledge.
This is not about having a certain thought or sequence of thoughts
This is not about stopping thoughts, changing thoughts, or getting rid of thoughts.
This is not a trick of the mind, or twisting the mind into believing certain thoughts.
This is not about cultivating an altered state of consciousness.
This is not a belief, religion, or a philosophy, nor is it magical or mystical.
This is not about gaining something extra, becoming something special.
This is not something that will lead to accumulation of money or things.
This is not about becoming a holy, good, moral or better person.
This is not going to lead you to eternal peace and happiness, it is not about happiness.
This is not a way to get free of depression or other diseases.
This is not about freedom from emotions and intense feelings.
This is not a way to escape your daily life.
This is not a way to make the story of you disappear.
This is not about getting rid of self, ego, I

What comes up for you? Look at your current direct experience.
-Direct experience has been avoidance of answering this post. Interesting.
Sitting with that. Some tightness in the stomach area.
The one that jumps out at me is the first one of not trying to convince anyone of anything.
Lonely road how do I continue to be in this world where everybody else sees things from the “I”- dentifying place.

Over the past week since entering the forum a close friendship has already fallen away. In truth this had been coming for a while but there is still sadness around this.
Questions arise:
Who else will fall away?
This was never within my control anyway so is there really anything different? NO as there is no me managing anything.
Who is it that loses a friend? It’s actually the idea and concept of friendship and what that means that’s been looked at.
When I look there is only the experience of connection. Feeling like someone “got” me and now there is not. HMMMM concept of friendship as a validation of self. Seems like an awful weight to put on human connection especially as there is no self to validate.
But there is no “I” to NEED the connection either.
--------------
After looking at those... take a short break and then do this little exercise:

Look and tell me what is going on for you right now.
what is your direct experience at this moment?
Be as detailed as you feel is needed.
I work on Sundays in a retail business and today there have been several (at least 4) encounters with what we could call difficult customers.
My DE is as if I have removed a coat of armour and am being directly affected by difficult and awkward encounters.
I feel the charge in my body and the awkwardness of being completely identified with “me”
I just removed myself from the situations.
It’s very uncomfortable. Again with the “So you are still expecting transcendence?”
Brings me back to the list:
This is not about freedom from intense feelings and emotions or escaping your daily life.
Life is showing “me” that it’s ALL of this. Awkward people and moments.
EXACTLY what’s present.

Now I am drawn to the last one- This is not about getting rid of ego/self/I

Its difficult to put into words what this brings up but there is a sense that I have never understood or had such compassion for myself as I do right now since I see that "I" don't even exist.
I am watching a movie of all the activities I was engaged in, the struggle and what I put myself through all in a desperate attempt to control that which was never mine to control anyway. (In my mind I put my arms around myself- shame I am sorry.) Such love arises.
There is a feeling that now I can have so much more fun with/in this whole package which is what I call ME.

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noselfintexas
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Re: How do I escape the tyranny of my thinking?

Postby noselfintexas » Sun Oct 18, 2015 10:18 pm

Sorry I think I messed up the quote function in my last post. Yesterday I lost a post when it was submitted so I tried to write it in word and copy and paste but I see some of where I answered your questions didn't appear highlighted. Apologies

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noselfintexas
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Re: How do I escape the tyranny of my thinking?

Postby noselfintexas » Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:07 pm

Morning Bill,

How much changes in a day. I can see that the list you sent me yesterday stirred up lots of thinking/sensations and identifying.
DE has been awkward actually. Like I was suddenly a lot more visible than I ever had been. Like the weird kid that no one talks to on the playground. This actually happened physically when my husband’s family came for dinner. There is just so much awkwardness in my current experience.
Ouch- painful/embarrassment arises.
Don’t fit in- square peg.
So I looked at this. What’s going on here? Certainly an opportunity to play with this idea of being a separate “weird” identity is that what happens, life gives you various opportunities to play with this concept? Just as there was a little peace then this crops up. It all seems so random.
There is the stuff that crops up around “did I sign up for this?” or even rather “this is not what I signed up for.”
Frustrated!!


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