Request a guide

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seeing clearly!
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Request a guide

Postby seeing clearly! » Mon Oct 05, 2015 4:06 am

What brings you to Liberation Unleashed?:
To see things as they are and to see the mind's filtering mechanism.

What is your background in terms of seeking and inquiry?:
I have read, and listened to books and CDs on the spiritual teachers of our day. Have taken many courses offered by Landmark Education Corp.

What do you expect of the conversation on this forum?:
To see through the illusions the mind has which keeps one from see life as it is in and of itself.

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KevinD
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Re: Request a guide

Postby KevinD » Tue Oct 06, 2015 6:55 pm

Hi Seeing Clearly,

If that would be ok with you, I would gladly be your guide.
(Is Seeing Clearly the name you'd like to go by, or do you have another we should use here?)
Also, for interest sake, what time zone are you in?
It just clears up when you might be posting.

If all is okay with you, we will simply have a conversation, the aim of which will be for you to make the realization that there is no 'self'. That will be our focus. I will tend to ask various questions and set you some exercises, but nobody will be judging you. You can't get this wrong.

This process is a guided inquiry where specific areas can be examined. I am not a teacher. This is YOUR inquiry. I will not be giving you new ideas and beliefs; only assisting you in examining and questioning the ones that you already have.

Okay, let's get down to business.
A few preliminaries to get out of the way first.
  • You agree to post at least once a day, even if only to say, "still here!"
  • I am not your teacher, all I can do is point, you look, until clear seeing happens.
  • In general, I will ask questions, you look deeply and honestly, and respond.
  • Responses require simple, uncontrived honest looking. There are no wrong or right answers.
  • Responses are best from direct experience (felt senses and observed thoughts). Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers, and stream of consciousness answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress.
  • Put aside all other teachings, philosophies and such for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention into seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily and essential meditation practice, it is fine to continue that.
  • Please learn to use the quote function; See these instructions

If you haven't already seen it, there is intro info here, our disclaimer and a short video too.
For the sake of your success, I ask that you be 100 per cent honest. If you can manage that, this process will be much more efficient.


For ease of seeing, my questions will appear in bold text.

If you could confirm you have seen all the above and would like me to be your guide - then we shall begin.

What are your expectations for this process?
How will it change you?
How will this feel?


You can press 'subscribe to this topic in the blue bar at the bottom of this page and receive an email every time I post here.

Best,
Kevin
"Don't ask the mind to confirm what is beyond the mind. Direct experience is the only valid confirmation."
~Nisargadatta Maharaj

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KevinD
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Re: Request a guide

Postby KevinD » Fri Oct 09, 2015 11:21 pm

Hi Seeing Clearly,
How's it going?
Need any help getting about the site?

Best,
Kevin
"Don't ask the mind to confirm what is beyond the mind. Direct experience is the only valid confirmation."
~Nisargadatta Maharaj

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seeing clearly!
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Re: Request a guide

Postby seeing clearly! » Wed Oct 28, 2015 3:21 am

Hi Seeing Clearly,
How's it going?
Need any help getting about the site?

Best,
Kevin
Sorry, I did not respond sooner. It took awhile to navigate this site. Thanks for agreeing to be my guide. I kept expecting a response in my email until, while bouncing around this site, I saw your message to me. I live in New York. I am in the eastern time zone. My name is Larry.

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KevinD
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Re: Request a guide

Postby KevinD » Wed Oct 28, 2015 6:24 am

Hi Larry,
Glad you made it back.

I'd like to just make sure you saw the post with the preliminaries on it.

This process is a guided inquiry where specific areas can be examined. I am not a teacher. This is YOUR inquiry. I will not be giving you new ideas and beliefs; only assisting you in examining and questioning the ones that you already have.

Okay, let's get down to business.
A few preliminaries to get out of the way first.
  • You agree to post at least once a day, even if only to say, "still here!"
  • I am not your teacher, all I can do is point, you look, until clear seeing happens.
  • In general, I will ask questions, you look deeply and honestly, and respond.
  • Responses require simple, uncontrived honest looking. There are no wrong or right answers.
  • Responses are best from direct experience (felt senses and observed thoughts). Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers, and stream of consciousness answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress.
  • Put aside all other teachings, philosophies and such for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention into seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily and essential meditation practice, it is fine to continue that.
  • Please learn to use the quote function; See these instructions

If you haven't already seen it, there is intro info here, our disclaimer and a short video too.
For the sake of your success, I ask that you be 100 per cent honest. If you can manage that, this process will be much more efficient.


For ease of seeing, my questions will appear in bold text.

If you could confirm you have seen all the above and would like me to be your guide - then we shall begin.

Thanks,

Kevin
"Don't ask the mind to confirm what is beyond the mind. Direct experience is the only valid confirmation."
~Nisargadatta Maharaj

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seeing clearly!
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Re: Request a guide

Postby seeing clearly! » Thu Oct 29, 2015 12:15 am

I have read the disclaimer. I am ready and thank you for working with me.

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KevinD
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Re: Request a guide

Postby KevinD » Thu Oct 29, 2015 12:24 am

Excellent, Larry.

Let's get under way.
As I said, I will point, and you will observe.
That observation should be done in direct experience (DE).
By that, I mean, talk about what arrives in your felt sense that very moment. No stories, not talk about what is anticipated. Just what is happening here and now in your senses.

Let's begin.

What comes up when it is read that there is absolutely no “you” in any way, shape or form, there never has been a “you”, nor is there or will be there ever be?

When you say "I", what does that refer to in direct experience? Please describe in detail – does it have a shape? A size? A quality?


Thanks,

Kevin
"Don't ask the mind to confirm what is beyond the mind. Direct experience is the only valid confirmation."
~Nisargadatta Maharaj

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seeing clearly!
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Re: Request a guide

Postby seeing clearly! » Thu Oct 29, 2015 10:44 am

I feel a little unsettled, like there is no place to get a grip.

My I, for me is inside and is a focus point of a bunch of emotions, opinions, feelings. For me it seems to be a round center located between my ears. It is the focal point of the voice in my head that chatters along. I see the qualities there as being kind, giving and a host of "spiritual qualities" which makes me a good person.

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Re: Request a guide

Postby KevinD » Thu Oct 29, 2015 4:07 pm

Excellent, Larry,

Great work.
The fact that you feel a little unsettled is great news.
This process isn't great news for the ego, I would be surprised if it wasn't kicking up a bit of a fuss.

As to the identifiers, no worries, we'll get to each of those individually.

Let's look at self as the experiencer.
  • In direct experience, can you find an “I” that experiences experience?

  • Is there a seer separate from the seen?

  • Is there a hearer that hears?
Again, great work, Larry.

Best,

Kevin
"Don't ask the mind to confirm what is beyond the mind. Direct experience is the only valid confirmation."
~Nisargadatta Maharaj

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seeing clearly!
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Re: Request a guide

Postby seeing clearly! » Fri Oct 30, 2015 2:11 am

Hi Kevin,
I cannot honestly find an "I" that experiences experience or a seer separate from seen. Or even a hearer that hears sounds. why is there an impulse to create this division? There are sights, sounds, tactile sensations ,tastes, and smells. It is so frustrating because there is an inner knowing intellectually that there is only experiences happening constantly. Yet that little voice in my head keeps analyzing and pigeon holing things.

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KevinD
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Re: Request a guide

Postby KevinD » Fri Oct 30, 2015 6:10 pm

Hi Larry,

The voice is little.
That's great to hear. Old patterns will continue to arise long after you've walked through the gateless gate.
Your greater understanding is what's important here.

Let's take a look at what might be in control (if indeed there is any).

Take a look at this video first (just the delivery, the Q and A is interesting, but not critical.

http://youtu.be/ih6f-0T2Ow0

Select one of your arms - It doesn't matter which.
When you have done that, rest for a moment and then when you want to, raise that arm into the air (or don't).
Examine the actual experience. Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire…
  • What is this 'I' that is controlling the arm?
  • Can a controlling 'I' be located?
  • What is this 'I' that is choosing which arm to raise?
  • Can you find an 'I' that is doing the choosing?
  • How is decision made?
[/b]

Great work,

Kevin
"Don't ask the mind to confirm what is beyond the mind. Direct experience is the only valid confirmation."
~Nisargadatta Maharaj

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seeing clearly!
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Re: Request a guide

Postby seeing clearly! » Sat Oct 31, 2015 3:33 am

Hello Kevin,

Just finished watching video. I must tell you it left me a little nervous inside. I feel little butterflies inside. Yet Sam made sense on some inner level. Just as a matter of reference, I am an Elder in my church. I am responsible for moving the service along. So this inner looking is starting to bring up feelings of uncertainty. Things like, what am I going to discover by allowing the statement that there is no me. Never was, never will be.

Something is pushing me into the discussion with you however. Even now I feel a little unsettled inside. Neverthe less, I feel like journeying onward.

With the arm experiment I noticed at first, I was not going to move at all. Then there was an itch felt on my face. Without a previous thought my hand went up to scratch it. That was interesting to note. On seeking to find that controlling center inside making the choice, I am a at a loss to find it at all. I spent some time during my day today trying to define or pin down a concrete "me" inside. Only found thoughts appearing and being replaced by a string of other thoughts. As far as how decisions get made, I am more and more at a loss to understand the process. I feel like I am becoming a canoe with no paddle.

Thanks for helping me through this inquiry, Kevin.

Larry

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seeing clearly!
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Re: Request a guide

Postby seeing clearly! » Sun Nov 01, 2015 10:02 pm

Hi Kevin,
Still being with the inquiry of letting seeing, hearing and all other senses be just as they are. This inner push to insert a "me" into things is so strong. I do notice, after doing a lot of things I am struck by the realization there was no conscious thought coming forth in the movements that were done. I notice that everything around me happens so smoothly every second. But that nagging inner feeling of a "me" has created upset. Another thing that is noticed. There is an effort by me not to use "I", "me" or other words denoting an inner driver of things, if that makes any sense. Take care.

Larry

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seeing clearly!
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Re: Request a guide

Postby seeing clearly! » Tue Nov 03, 2015 12:36 am

Still seeking to notice the world around me ,and at the same time the intrusion of my assessments, judgements, likes and dislikes.

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KevinD
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Re: Request a guide

Postby KevinD » Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:54 am

Larry,
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you.
I was unexpectedly away from the computer for a few days.
I like the way you describe your experience with this.
There will be periodic attempts to insert a me as a controller.
Sit with the thought of self as a controller in direct experience (felt sense in this very moment). See if you can see I as the controller

Best,
Kevin
"Don't ask the mind to confirm what is beyond the mind. Direct experience is the only valid confirmation."
~Nisargadatta Maharaj


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