as it was in the beginning

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mark seifert
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as it was in the beginning

Postby mark seifert » Wed Sep 30, 2015 11:36 pm

The search is over! I just want to share the love and beauty that is in everyone and everything. To BE the light that I always was. No more doing just BEING what I was created to be.

What is your background in terms of seeking and inquiry?:
First it was my catholic upbringing which led to charismatic chritianity then pentecostal,then eastern religions accompanied with 100's of books and teachers like adyshanti, mooji gangagi, neal donald walsh,wayne dyer,fred davis paul lowe and many many more. The last 5 yrs. I have pretty much been emptying out most beliefs,perceptions and opinions and focusing on no self. I first had to realize that i did'nt know anything. All modalities had to go also,even though i thoroughly enjoyed them all. As i look back at this i realize that its the journey, where we are, in heaven and not the destination. Now is the only moment their will ever be

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minddweller
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Re: as it was in the beginning

Postby minddweller » Fri Oct 02, 2015 7:33 pm

Hello Mark,

Minddweller here. I'd be delighted to be your guide. Thanks for this introduction. Keeping an open mind is key here so I invite you to put all books and youtube clips aside for the duration of our dialogue. If you do have an ongoing meditation practice that is fine though, you can keep this up.

I'd also ask you to answer my questions as honestly as you can and from direct experience.

What do I mean by direct experience? Well nothing mysterious here, just looking and sensing what is going on through the 5 senses, that is: what is seen, heard, tasted, touched and smelled. To illustrate this imagine the taste of an apple. Now get yourself an apple, bite into it, and now compare the two experiences. One is direct experience the other is thinking. Can you tell the difference? We'll no doubt go into this as we dialogue further. Needless to say, this is about looking directly into experience and not about theorising about experience and so as far as possible we'll both try to keep to what is directly experienced.

I will ask you to write and answer my questions frequently, once a day is good, and I will do my utmost to do so myself.

Before we get going:

What do you expect will happen with the recognition that there is no self?

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mark seifert
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Re: as it was in the beginning

Postby mark seifert » Sat Oct 03, 2015 12:41 pm

Thank you minddweller(md). I will do my best at following your instructions throughout our correspondence. I just finished my apple and I could see a real difference between perception and experience. I will attempt to stay with experience throughout our discussion. Please remind me if I waver. As far as expecting anything,who would I be expecting it from, even if there was an I. Thank You

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minddweller
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Re: as it was in the beginning

Postby minddweller » Sat Oct 03, 2015 2:42 pm

Hi Mark,
I just finished my apple and I could see a real difference between perception and experience. I will attempt to stay with experience throughout our discussion. I just finished my apple and I could see a real difference between perception and experience.I will attempt to stay with experience throughout our discussion.
Sounds good. Just to be clear, how would you describe the difference between the actual experience of eating the apple compared to imagining or thinking about doing so? Try to describe what is seen, tasted, heard, touched and smelled, if anything.
As far as expecting anything,who would I be expecting it from, even if there was an I.
Good question. Let's see how deep the rabbit-hole goes.
The search is over! I just want to share the love and beauty that is in everyone and everything. To BE the light that I always was. No more doing just BEING what I was created to be
Looking at your first post I get the sense there is some sort of expectation, which by the way, is perfectly fine.

Now what is your response to this:

There is no 'self', 'me' or 'I' at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form. Never has been and never will be.

Take your time to let it sink in and watch the response. What shows up?

A technical point. I invite you to use the "quote" function as I have done above. It just makes it clear what is responded to. Also subscribe to this thread if you haven't already done so.

Warm wishes,
MD

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mark seifert
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Re: as it was in the beginning

Postby mark seifert » Sat Oct 03, 2015 11:31 pm

Hi MD, thanks for responding.
As for the comparison of the imagined apple and the experience of the apple itself was quite surprising. The apple was much smaller than imagined,also not as shiny or firm as the imagined one. The aroma was not as potent as imagined and the taste was also different, not better or worse,just different and enjoyable.
The no self me or i response brought no reaction. It's OK.The mind or thought system could go outside of this moment and bring up teachings to confirm this statement but you asked for the experience that happened after reading the statement.There was no reaction.
I tried the quote button and lost my writings. Not real sure how that works.How do I subcribe to this thread? Thanks

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minddweller
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Re: as it was in the beginning

Postby minddweller » Sun Oct 04, 2015 11:17 am

Hi Mark,
When you click on the "Post Reply" button you get a few icons under the subject box, the fourth from the left being the "qoute"-button. If clicked on the
[/quote ] will appear and you can copy/paste any text you want to quote and put it in between the
and the [/quote ]. If you can't get this working no problems.
As for the comparison of the imagined apple and the experience of the apple itself was quite surprising. The apple was much smaller than imagined,also not as shiny or firm as the imagined one. The aroma was not as potent as imagined and the taste was also different, not better or worse,just different and enjoyable.
Good to notice that the assumption of what eating an apple is like and the actual experience of it is not the same. Let's focus on what is actually real. For the purposes of this, you will need to focus on the real experience through the senses rather than what is imagined, OK?
The no self me or i response brought no reaction. It's OK.The mind or thought system could go outside of this moment and bring up teachings to confirm this statement but you asked for the experience that happened after reading the statement.There was no reaction.
Yes the mind comes up with all sorts of stories, but as you noticed above, eating the apple is different from thinking about it or imagining it, same goes here, actually LOOKING is different from thinking about it.

So in what way do you experience Mark right now? What does the name 'Mark' point to in your experience?

Avoid trying to give me the 'right answers', this is something you need to see for yourself, I can only point where to look. So try to report back what you actually SEE when you LOOK rather than stories about how things are.

Is your face part of your direct experience right now? Can you see your face? Point one index finger towards the face. What does the finger point to in your actual experience?

Have fun!
/MD

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minddweller
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Re: as it was in the beginning

Postby minddweller » Sun Oct 04, 2015 11:22 am

Hi Mark,
You can subscribe to this thread by clicking "Subscribe to topic" on the blue pane furthest down on this page.
Hope this makes sense.
Look forward to hear from you real soon,
MD

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mark seifert
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Re: as it was in the beginning

Postby mark seifert » Sun Oct 04, 2015 2:45 pm

Hi MD,OK the heck with trying to give the right answers.Mark is the vehicle which consciousness is housed in while playing this game or illusion. To experience all, so as to know that nothing unreal exists. The name mark is the identifying series of letters that were given me so my parents knew which kid to reward or punish or call to dinner.Mark the name or the body are not real.When finished playing the game, it will be buried or burned with the other 10 zillion other meaningless bodies. It means nothing!
The face is not part of my experience right now other than being there, but I can't see it.When I point my finger towards my face, I only see the space between what is called the finger and the face.
Thanks MD for taking this time to share.

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minddweller
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Re: as it was in the beginning

Postby minddweller » Mon Oct 05, 2015 10:51 pm

In what way do you experience the separate self?
Is your consciousness housed in a vehicle? Is that your experience? Have a look.


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mark seifert
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Re: as it was in the beginning

Postby mark seifert » Mon Oct 05, 2015 11:52 pm

Hi MD
Much has changed since the last post. I have been reading the gateless gate and have realised that there is no me. Never was and never will be.The body is just the body.Over the last 6 years I have been emptying out everything.Religion,beliefs, files on people, circumstances,anything that came up that was'nt now had to go. It seems that I missed the most obvious---ME.Thank you so much for all of your pointing and putting up with mark. He's gone now and I don't even miss him. thanks again

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minddweller
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Re: as it was in the beginning

Postby minddweller » Tue Oct 06, 2015 3:18 pm

Sounds great! But just to make sure there are no areas we'd need to go into do answer these questions:

'As always, in Direct Experience:

Have you been able to find, a ‘self’ that is the ‘experiencer’?

Or a self that is the doer, or can control what happens?

Or a self that ‘makes’ decisions?

Or a self who ‘does the thinking’?

Is the "body" just another thought label for sensations (namely tactile & kinesthetic)?

Are the five body senses made to arise or experienced by this ‘self’?

Is there a self ‘in here’ which is separate from the world and others ‘out there’?

Is there doubt or unclarity that in all these cases the ‘self’ is nothing other than a mental fabrication?

And finally:

Are there any doubts about seeing through the illusion of separate self?'



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mark seifert
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Re: as it was in the beginning

Postby mark seifert » Tue Oct 06, 2015 6:28 pm

NO NO NO NO NO Life is just living life.No me. Experiencing,decisioning,thinking,controlling,breathing,living and dying are just happening,but there is no one they happen to.So look at them,see them,feel them and go on living!
Life living life. How cool is that? Sorry,just enjoying this new found clarity.(or old lost clarity)or was it just cloudy or dirty and you pointed out a thorough cleaning?
Finally,there are no doubts about seeing through the illusion of separate self.
Thanks again MD,any more questions?

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minddweller
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Re: as it was in the beginning

Postby minddweller » Tue Oct 06, 2015 10:34 pm

OK Mark, I believe you. All sounds good nevertheless could you just answer each question individually please? That would help as you've given me five 'no' out of the 9 questions and perhaps there might be some 'yes' in there too?


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mark seifert
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Re: as it was in the beginning

Postby mark seifert » Wed Oct 07, 2015 1:03 am

Thanks MD
The 1st 4 are definite NO,s. There is no self.nos.5 being that there is no self,the body senses must just be that. senses.
There is no self in here out there or anywhere.Clarity of the no self is solid.it's hard to put into words,but it feels so dam good.The illusion of self is over. Clarity is clear. Enjoyment is happenning. ALL IS WELL!
Thanks MD. The questions you ask are fantastic!!

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minddweller
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Re: as it was in the beginning

Postby minddweller » Wed Oct 07, 2015 7:56 pm

Hi Mark and thanks for those answers!
Here are some last questions i would like to ask you. If there is a sticky place, we will be able to see from your answers and get you completely 'unstuck'.
There is no rush, write what feels true. Please number the answers with the corresponding numbers


1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Please give examples from recent experience.

6) Anything to add?


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