Truth for All

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jomarie7
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Truth for All

Postby jomarie7 » Sun Sep 13, 2015 7:07 pm

What brings you to Liberation Unleashed?
A wish for truth
What is your background in terms of seeking and inquiry?
I read tons of books :). A lot of recent reading on A Course in Miracles. I do enjoy Kenneth Wapnick. I recently discovered Tony Parsons and Lisa Cairns.
What do you expect of the conversation on this forum?
To see clearly. I read some threads but I feel stuck and frustrated. I feel anxious most of the time. I can not seem to relax. There seems to be the contraction still however subtle. I tried to get it on my own just reading the forum and the threads, but I do not seem to get it. I feel lost.
Thanks

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JonathanR
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Re: Truth for All

Postby JonathanR » Mon Sep 14, 2015 7:58 pm

Hello Jomarie7,

Welcome to Liberation Unleashed. My name is Jon and having read your introduction I'd like to offer to guide you.
What do you expect of the conversation on this forum?
To see clearly. I read some threads but I feel stuck and frustrated. I feel anxious most of the time. I can not seem to relax. There seems to be the contraction still however subtle. I tried to get it on my own just reading the forum and the threads, but I do not seem to get it. I feel lost.
Well, 'seeing clearly' can certainly be our aim. I understand what you mean about reading the threads and 'not getting' it. But you are in the right place.

When you say that you cannot seem to relax, does it seem that there is a real 'you' that 'tries to do' this?

Warm regards,

Jon

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JonathanR
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Re: Truth for All

Postby JonathanR » Thu Sep 17, 2015 2:54 pm

Hi Jomarie7,

If you would like to engage in a guiding conversation here please let me know by replying as soon as possible? There are others waiting at Guiding forum so if I don't hear back from you I will move on to answering someone else. I will wait another 24 hours before doing this. After that, if you were interested, you should create a new thread requesting a guide.

best wishes

Jon

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jomarie7
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Re: Truth for All

Postby jomarie7 » Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:42 pm

Hi Jon,
Sorry for the delay. And thank you for being my guide. It is very much appreciated.
So to answer your question: When you say that you cannot seem to relax, does it seem that there is a real 'you' that 'tries to do' this?
Good question.
It does seem that there is a real 'me' that 'tries to do this' yes. There seems to be a lot of effort too. Like it feels important for me to be calm and relaxed to enjoy life. And if I am not, I feel like I am missing out on something. Come to think about it all now, I am wondering if I am not identifying with some fanthom entity. But yet again, I alway thought that I was real. And it feels like everyone acts as if I am real. So how can it not be?

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jomarie7
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Re: Truth for All

Postby jomarie7 » Fri Sep 18, 2015 1:23 pm

Here I will just wright thoughts that came up this morning. It seems for quite a while now that there is a strong voice of hatred in my head that comes on and off. During the day it seems to be going pretty good and fine(or maybe it is just easier to hide it), but often at night, when I am alone, it comes back. I can hear the voice and also feel a lot of pain in my body. Trying to make sense of all that this morning, I was thinking about what A Course in Miracles talks about: "'The secret sins and hidden hates' and linking it to the movie Revolver. Especially when he is in the elevator at the end of the movie. The course says that we are already who we are and that we are here to look at our hatred.
Thanks.

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JonathanR
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Re: Truth for All

Postby JonathanR » Fri Sep 18, 2015 2:38 pm

Hi Jomarie7,

Before we go any further I should briefly explain what we do here.


The two of us will have a conversation, a chat as between friends if you like? The purpose of this conversation will be for you to make the realisation that there is no separate self. All our investigations will be focused on this. I will tend to ask a series of questions that are intended to point towards this and it is for you to look.

Please put aside all expectations other than just to realise there is no 'I'. That 'I' is always just the content of thoughts and nothing that can be found as really existing.

I would also ask you to put aside all previous non-dual teaching and thoughts about awareness etc, and approach this very simply from honest basic beliefs.

Have a look at these guidelines which will assist us both.

1. Please post at least once a day, if you cannot post, or need more time, let me know.
2. Be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.
3. Answer from direct personal experience only (we can go into this in more depth later if needed).
4. Read the disclaimer on the Liberation Unleashed main site -> http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

It is useful to use the 'Quote' button as I have to quote my replies - It will make the conversation easier.
A guide for it's use can be found here: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

Let me know if you can agree to these guidelines and we will get started.

Best wishes,

Jon

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jomarie7
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Re: Truth for All

Postby jomarie7 » Fri Sep 18, 2015 4:38 pm

Hi Jon,

Thank you. Yes I agree and if I forget something let me know as we go along. Also I can not get to: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660, as you suggested. I don't know how.

Thanks

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JonathanR
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Re: Truth for All

Postby JonathanR » Fri Sep 18, 2015 5:10 pm

Hi Jomarie,

I will post later on but just for now, the link that didn't work for you is:
http://liberationunleashed.com/nation/v ... ?f=4&t=660

Hope it works?

Jon

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jomarie7
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Re: Truth for All

Postby jomarie7 » Sat Sep 19, 2015 12:01 am

Thanks Jon. It does work yes.
And its all good. I am in no rush.
I am traveling a bit this weekend but I should will be online in the evening.

Jomarie

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JonathanR
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Re: Truth for All

Postby JonathanR » Sat Sep 19, 2015 12:56 am

Hi Jomarie,

Remember you said:
It does seem that there is a real 'me' that 'tries to do this' yes. There seems to be a lot of effort too.
Where would you say this feeling of 'me' or 'I' is experienced most? Does it seem to be located in the body, for instance? Or perhaps it feels more connected with thinking and thoughts? Take a look and see if you can find out where 'self' seems to be.

Best wishes,

Jon

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jomarie7
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Re: Truth for All

Postby jomarie7 » Sun Sep 20, 2015 12:36 pm

Hi Jon, so here we go:
Where would you say this feeling of 'me' or 'I' is experienced most?
As of late, I seem to experience a lot of symptoms in my neck, shoulders and upper back region. So I guess this feeling of 'me' seems to be in that area. Linked to those symptoms is a lot of frustration and irritation. So 'me' is experiencing sensations and feelings. And I think I am this 'me' experiencing.
Does it seem to be located in the body, for instance?
Yes it seems to be located in the body. Behind my eyes?
Or perhaps it feels more connected with thinking and thoughts?
Hum, yes perhaps, but I am not 100% sure.
Take a look and see if you can find out where 'self' seems to be.
So if I keep on looking, 'self', perhaps like 'elf', I will not find it, will I? A 4 letter word with no concrete object linked to it. There is 'no matter' linked to a 'me' unless I imagine that it is in my body somewhere. And imagining is not reality. But Who or What gives direction to this body if it is not 'me'? And what is real and unreal?

Thanks!
Jomarie

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JonathanR
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Re: Truth for All

Postby JonathanR » Sun Sep 20, 2015 8:23 pm

Hi Jomarie,
So if I keep on looking, 'self', perhaps like 'elf', I will not find it, will I? A 4 letter word with no concrete object linked to it. There is 'no matter' linked to a 'me' unless I imagine that it is in my body somewhere. And imagining is not reality.
This is true. Nevertheless it is very common to feel that 'me' or 'I' resides in the body somewhere.
Yes it seems to be located in the body. Behind my eyes?
So this is a good place to start. Here is an investigation that you can try.

Right here and now examine your experience.

The words on the screen are being seen. What are they being seen by?
From thought, we have the idea that 'I see the screen'.
So what is 'I'? What can be found right here and now in your experience that is 'seeing the screen'.

Can anything be found? There is the thought 'I see', but is there actually an 'I' to be found that does the seeing?
If so, what is that?
Do you experience a body seeing? Or would you say that there is just 'seeing'? Just the experience alone?


Best,

jon

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jomarie7
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Re: Truth for All

Postby jomarie7 » Mon Sep 21, 2015 8:17 pm

Hello Jon,
The words on the screen are being seen. What are they being seen by?

The words on the screen appears to be seen by my eyes? by 'me' ? By a 'me' that uses its body's eyes to see?
From thought, we have the idea that 'I see the screen'.
What can be found right here and now in your experience that is 'seeing the screen'.
Yes that is right, I always thought that 'I see the screen'. Since 'I' is just a thought then, I don't know. Maybe consciousness, awareness. Something is aware of all this, but who or what is it? Hum...I can not find anything concrete but it does seem like there is something that sees.

So what is 'I'?
Is 'I' juste a made up caracter? Just a thought or an idea But who made it up?

Can anything be found? There is the thought 'I see', but is there actually an 'I' to be found that does the seeing?
If so, what is that?
So if I look with all my senses, I do not think I can find an 'I'. It is just a thought that points to this mind body and soul mechanism that seems to move around in this world, that seems to be,do, have, give in interaction with the world maybe. Pointing to this jomarie caracter.
Do you experience a body seeing? Or would you say that there is just 'seeing'? Just the experience alone?
Hum...nice. It would be a clearer experience. For the past years I have had what we call 'visions', where for brief moments I see with me eyes completely shut. I see as clear if not clearer during those episodes because there is no me that sees yes...there is only what is being seen. Those experiences brought me to question everything that I believe. Could it be the same with eyes open? It certainly does not feel the same.

Thanks Jon,
jomarie

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JonathanR
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Re: Truth for All

Postby JonathanR » Mon Sep 21, 2015 10:06 pm

Hi Jomarie,
Do you experience a body seeing? Or would you say that there is just 'seeing'? Just the experience alone?

Hum...nice. It would be a clearer experience. For the past years I have had what we call 'visions', where for brief moments I see with me eyes completely shut. I see as clear if not clearer during those episodes because there is no me that sees yes...there is only what is being seen. Those experiences brought me to question everything that I believe. Could it be the same with eyes open? It certainly does not feel the same.
Very interesting. Well, perhaps do this sort of eyes-open investigation several times over the next day or so? Each time notice if there is a body seeing or if the actual experience right here and now is just 'seeing' alone?

It may be that all the visual stimulus of identifiable known objects such as 'chairs', 'carpet', 'windows', 'doors', 'radiators', etc confuse the issue a bit? It could be worth just finding some wall or area that is completely neutral, without distracting features? See how you get on and let me know?

Best wishes,

Jon

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jomarie7
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Re: Truth for All

Postby jomarie7 » Wed Sep 23, 2015 10:49 pm

Hi Jon, I was/am distracted with a decision to make in the career area. Stessing over the apparent choice to make and all the doubt that comes along with it. 'Which choice is the best choice?' I guess I could also use this event to see that there is no 'me' choosing. Or, choosing happens without 'me'.
Very interesting. Well, perhaps do this sort of eyes-open investigation several times over the next day or so? Each time notice if there is a body seeing or if the actual experience right here and now is just 'seeing' alone?
There still seems like there is a body seeing but that is after the facts. Seeing happens and then the body claims it.
It may be that all the visual stimulus of identifiable known objects such as 'chairs', 'carpet', 'windows', 'doors', 'radiators', etc confuse the issue a bit? It could be worth just finding some wall or area that is completely neutral, without distracting features? See how you get on and let me know?
Yes I imagine that if there is no distraction that the seeing would be clearer maybe. I honestly feel stuck tonight. And there is still a lot of contraction in the body. I still feel seperate from what I see. A calm disquiet...


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