Hi

[sunshine1988]

enjoyed the book - gateless gatecrashers
habitual seeker - lots of reading and audio prgms
like minded persons and help me remember - nothing missing before the "I"

[sunshine1988]

I wasn't very engaging in my 1st post and truly that was not my intent.
My name is Heather and I have been seeking for about 15 years - harder the last 5.
I was very lucky to see the Gateless Gatecrashers on amazon and buy it 4 weeks ago. Even though my true understanding of no-self has just begun - this book has already changed my life.
I feel that I have had glimpses of the no-self but am unable to live there constantly. On the weekends with the Fam - I do great. But at work not so much. I am viewing all beings "softer" and this is so great but the "I" really creeps in - in everyday life.
I would really like some help if anyone would have the time. I will promise to be honest and take the time to do the "looking".
Thanks!!!
Oh and on my profile it says Hawaii(don't know how that happened) but I live in the US in Utah- Mountain standard time.

[Canfora]

Hi Heather, welcome to the forum.
Happy to talk with you. I'm Sandra and I'm in Portugal.

I feel that I have had glimpses of the no-self but am unable to live there constantly. On the weekends with the Fam - I do great. But at work not so much. I am viewing all beings "softer" and this is so great but the "I" really creeps in - in everyday life.

You're expecting things to change? To what/whom would they change?
What is, at the moment, your idea of what Heather is? What does the label I point to?

Looking forward to our conversation!

[sunshine1988]

Hi Sandra!
Thanks for helping me!

You're expecting things to change? To what/whom would they change?
What is, at the moment, your idea of what Heather is? What does the label I point to?

I have looked and yes I do expect things to change - I expect some freedom from my thoughts. I realize that thoughts will always be there but I hope I won't get hijacked as frequently as I do now.
My idea of Heather is a body,mind and thoughts - I truly cannot find the "I". The label "I" points to the same thing.

Thanks again!

[Canfora]

Hi Heather,

Thanks for helping me!

My pleasure :)

I have looked and yes I do expect things to change - I expect some freedom from my thoughts. I realize that thoughts will always be there but I hope I won't get hijacked as frequently as I do now.

That is something that may happen. Just don't expect it to be sudden, some habits can take a long time to change. Or it may not happen. Anyway, try not to cling to your ideas about how this should be. Expectations are always about an imaginary future.

My idea of Heather is a body,mind and thoughts - I truly cannot find the "I". The label "I" points to the same thing.

Are you saying that the label I points to a body, a mind and thoughts, although body, mind and thoughts are not an I? That would be accurate.

What is the difference between mind and thoughts?
How do you know that 'a body, a mind and thoughts' are not a separate you?

[sunshine1988]

Hi Sandra,
I guess stuff it getting real - I had a mini panic attack in the night - kinda came undone. "I" am clinging to fear(of what I don't know) but very scary to think I have been protecting(50#heavier than I should be) and building a life(judging/deciding who should be part of it) based on illusion. For 46 years I have done this and damn it I like Santa!
So an interesting day - trying to "look" and hitting a wall.
Calmer now: 16 hrs later

What is the difference between mind and thoughts?
How do you know that 'a body, a mind and thoughts' are not a separate you?

I think Mind processes what needs to be done- is able to concentrate on a task. Body says I am hungry - mind knows to find food. Thoughts are random - no control - they just seem to come into view and will leave or stay depending if the "I" attaches to them or not. The Body is a total independent unit - it breathes - does all the bodily functions without any input.
As far as those 3 being a separate me - mind poses the best shot at it - body independent/thoughts random no "control" on either one. But the mind for me can be tricky - It seems somewhat intelligent and has built such a complex illusion that I do/can mistake it for a separate me. I have to be really quiet and alone to see the illusion - very frustrating. And then the mind seems to come charging in again.

Hope all is well with you,
Heather

[Canfora]

Hi Heather,

The best way to deal with the fear, the frustration, is to welcome them like if they are 2 of your best friends. They are trying to protect you!
If you look, can you see a Heather that needs their protection?

For 46 years I have done this and damn it I like Santa!

Haha! Yes, me too. Santa isn't going to disappear. It was never here, so how could it disappear?
There will be thoughts about Santa like always and a sense that Santa is real. The only difference is that you will know it is not. That doesn't mean you can't enjoy Christmas.

I hope you relax and enjoy this exploration. There is no reason to have panic attacks. If it happens again go outside and walk if possible. Try to do something that gets you out of the thinking loop that is causing this reaction. (do what works for you. I'm far from being an expert and I don't have the slightest idea of what is the best for you in this situation)

Hug,
Sandra

[sunshine1988]

Hi Sandra,
Have been doing deep looking today(hospital tests - dislike anesthesia - but makes for a reflective day).
Have made friends(for now) with the fear/anxiety /frustration. I can honestly see nothing behind them when I let go of their stories. Very freeing!
I have looked for the "I' and this hasn't gone as well - as in I have stayed mostly in the illusion of the separate self.
I will continue to "look".
Oh and the walking and getting out of the mind is always great advice - I always feel way better with a good walk.
Thank you so much for your time!
Heather

[Canfora]

Hi Heather,

Have been doing deep looking today(hospital tests - dislike anesthesia - but makes for a reflective day).

Hope all goes well!

Have made friends(for now) with the fear/anxiety /frustration. I can honestly see nothing behind them when I let go of their stories. Very freeing!

Good. Yes it is :)

I have looked for the "I' and this hasn't gone as well - as in I have stayed mostly in the illusion of the separate self.

Please describe how you stay in the illusion. Can you see what happens while you are in the grip of it?

I will continue to "look".

I would like to know what do you mean by 'look' to see if we are in the same page. How do you 'look'?

Oh and the walking and getting out of the mind is always great advice - I always feel way better with a good walk.

Me too.

Hug,
Sandra

[sunshine1988]

Hi Sandra,

Please describe how you stay in the illusion. Can you see what happens while you are in the grip of it?

When I am stuck in the illusion of self - everything starts with "I" - I try to look but I literally hit a long wall - I cannot muster enough strength/courage to try to find the end of the wall to look around it and see what is in back of it. Maybe fear maybe laziness or simply comfortable habit keeps me in the illusion. So I continue to operate from the "I" place.
I do see what happens when operating from the "I" position - It is a cold, heavy, restricted place but at the same time familiar.

I would like to know what do you mean by 'look' to see if we are in the same page. How do you 'look'?

I need to relax, close my eyes and let go of everything. Kind of feel spaciousness and I look or imagine going behind my heart. I don't know what anyone else does to "look" but that is how I can get glimpses of totality.
I feel like I am going in circles - it is very interesting to know(mind-wise) how something is but unable to feel/live it for any length of time- grrrrr.
smiling anyway,
Heather

[Canfora]

Hi, Heather.

I need to relax, close my eyes and let go of everything.

Relaxing and being aware of what is going on would be more effective, in my opinion.
Letting go of everything seems a bit unrealistic!

Kind of feel spaciousness and I look or imagine going behind my heart.

There is no need to feel a certain way or to use imagination to look.

I don't know what anyone else does to "look" but that is how I can get glimpses of totality.

Well, 'look' is just the plain looking to what is here right now. It's what you are always doing. When you go to your kitchen and look for a cup or when you need you keys and look everywhere for them - that is looking. There is nothing special about it - it's using the senses to explore what is always available.

I feel like I am going in circles - it is very interesting to know(mind-wise) how something is but unable to feel/live it for any length of time- grrrrr.

:) Heather, if it is true that you aren't a separate self, everything that is being experienced is already it - life without a separate self. That includes everything, even the grrrrsss.

I'm aware that what I'm saying above can feel confusing and frustrating. Don't worry, that's normal. Let me know if you have doubts.

So, let's keep going. Let's say we meet each other and I ask you to show me your I, what you think you are, this Heather you talk about. What would you show me?

Hug,
Sandra

[sunshine1988]

Hi Sandra!
Thank you so much for helping me! I have been looking - in other-words noticing my surroundings and what a kick! Have been present with reality. Nope can't find the "I" when I am truly present.
Wanted to let you know before I digress and tell you what I think I am :)

Let's say we meet each other and I ask you to show me your I, what you think you are, this Heather you talk about. What would you show me?

The ME - I would say I live with my 3 best friends - Husband and two Sons. I have 3 dogs and 3 horses- I consider them furry people. I love coffee, reading and walks(especially in the woods). But who am I - huh?! I can tell you about my life but the who or what is trickier. I am a person - yep separate until I become present here and now - then my hands touch objects and my eyes see things and those are real but..... the real me - not coming up with much other than to tell you more about my life not what you really asked.
I hope this is ok.
Hope all is well,
Heather

[Canfora]

Hi, Heather.

I have been looking - in other-words noticing my surroundings and what a kick! Have been present with reality. Nope can't find the "I" when I am truly present.

Good :)

Wanted to let you know before I digress and tell you what I think I am :)

This made me laugh!

The ME - I would say I live with my 3 best friends - Husband and two Sons. I have 3 dogs and 3 horses- I consider them furry people. I love coffee, reading and walks(especially in the woods). But who am I - huh?! I can tell you about my life but the who or what is trickier. I am a person - yep separate until I become present here and now - then my hands touch objects and my eyes see things and those are real but..... the real me - not coming up with much other than to tell you more about my life not what you really asked.
I hope this is ok.

Of course it's ok.
Notice how you're describing thoughts about what you are - the story of Heather and what is present in the life of Heather.

Then you said that when you are present here and now you can touch and see real things. What makes this things real? How do you know you are experiencing them?

Hug,
Sandra

[sunshine1988]

Hi Sandra,
Thanks for all these pointers and patience.

Then you said that when you are present here and now you can touch and see real things. What makes this things real? How do you know you are experiencing them?

Ok - the 5 senses make things real for me: I touch a table, I see a butterfly, I smell & taste coffee and I hear the tree fall. And I would say I know I am experiencing them the same way - the 5 senses.
I feel I am missing something vital but can't see what that is.

Heather

[Canfora]

Hi Heather,

Ok - the 5 senses make things real for me: I touch a table, I see a butterfly, I smell & taste coffee and I hear the tree fall. And I would say I know I am experiencing them the same way - the 5 senses.
I feel I am missing something vital but can't see what that is.

You're doing fine, don't worry.
Look for the I with the 5 senses and share what you find.

Hug,
Sandra