Would like a guide.. :)

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Nananami
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Would like a guide.. :)

Postby Nananami » Sat Jul 25, 2015 11:42 pm

Hi, I have been searching for truth for a while now and have ended up here. I have no religious background but am really into Mooji and Fred David at the moment. I'm not too sure what to expect from this forum but I am so ready to give up everything so I can live freely. Thank you.

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Nananami
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Re: Would like a guide.. :)

Postby Nananami » Sun Jul 26, 2015 3:08 am

Humm I am actually very eager to be guided. I will write more about myself. I am 21 years old and for my entire life I've always felt there had to be more to life and what's the purpose of life bla bla. I realised in my recent years that I had been living in my head for I think my whole life. I don't see much hope for the future either. Lately I feel I am becoming VERY self-conscious, not sure why, and it's like I can't function in normal conversations, my mind keeps on asking 'how should I respond, how should I act' etc.

I have read a bit of the book Gateless Gatecrasher and I get a bit stuck. When confronted with the question that there is no manager, I do not quite understand because it's like, I have to be the one taking the action. E.g. Morning comes. Thought arises that I need to get up. And then I am the one who wills myself to get up. If I don't do that then I don't get up. I am the one who is doing it.

My grades are suffering because all I do is spend my days in bed... haha

If anyone thinks they can help me I am very eager. Thanks

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Aragon
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Re: Would like a guide.. :)

Postby Aragon » Sun Jul 26, 2015 3:50 pm

Hi Nanamani,

Is that what I should call you?

I’d be happy to work with you. I remember having a similar feeling at 21!

I need you to confirm you’re happy with that – and if so, please read the following:

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When you've got your head round that, let me know - especially the disclaimer.

Speak soon,

Aragon
... dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions.... - Nirmala

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Nananami
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Re: Would like a guide.. :)

Postby Nananami » Sun Jul 26, 2015 5:53 pm

Hi Aragon,

Many thanks for the reply!

Call me Nanami :)

I have read and do agree to everything even the disclaimer. I will also be able to post daily.

Thank you

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Aragon
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Re: Would like a guide.. :)

Postby Aragon » Sun Jul 26, 2015 10:18 pm

Hi Nanami,

That’s great – let’s get started!

Okay, so the way this works is generally that I will ask some questions that will direct you to your experience, and you will come back with what you’ve observed. We’re not doing any theory, not asking you to believe anything, just to look at experience and write what you see. We’ll take a look at how to do this observing soon, but before that I just want to cover off a few things in your intro…..

You say:
I am so ready to give up everything so I can live freely.
What does this mean, to live freely? How are you currently limited? Is this an expectation you have of this dialogue? What would it mean in practice?

Also,
Lately I feel I am becoming VERY self-conscious...
Is there an expectation that this process will change the way you are in some way? That it will get rid of problems, or negative feelings, or something like that? If so, can you say more about this?

We look at expectations quite early on as they can be a barrier to ‘seeing’. Be as honest as you can – we all have them coming to this process, so they are nothing to be ashamed of. Just try to get them out in the open… it will really help.... Is there anything else you are expecting here?

Try to answer all the questions. Go as deep as you can. Take your time.

Speak soon,

Aragon
... dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions.... - Nirmala

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Nananami
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Re: Would like a guide.. :)

Postby Nananami » Sun Jul 26, 2015 10:39 pm

Hey thanks for th reply
I am so ready to give up everything so I can live freely.
Well I feel living is a struggle for me compared to when I look around me where people seems to live life more carefree without constant anxious thoughts, don't think mine is that bad anymore though. Freely.. I guess I expect thIs to take me to a state where there are not much worrying thoughts for myself and if they do come up they won't bother me much anymore.
Lately I feel I am becoming VERY self conscious
I guess I'm expecting again that I'll be in a state where anxious thoughts about myself will not arise.

This is how I honestly feel and if there is anything that I should be known please do

Thank you

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Aragon
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Re: Would like a guide.. :)

Postby Aragon » Sun Jul 26, 2015 11:43 pm

Hi Nanami,

Thanks for your reply. :)

Here’s the thing – in both your answers you mention a ‘state’. But the truth is, what we’re looking for here is not a state. It’s not an experience. It’s not a happy ever after. It’s not the end of suffering. In fact, it’s probably more true to say, life will carry on, pretty much as it is now. Yet at the same time, there will be a change, a shift, in the way life is understood or experienced. It’s kind of hard to explain, but it may well be totally unremarkable – definitely not flashing lights and eternal bliss though!

Perhaps the best way to think of it is that ‘seeing’ involves a dose of truth. It is a seeing of the way things are, rather than the way we take them to be. More specifically, it is seeing the illusory nature of the ‘I’ that is so present in our language and thoughts. It is a seeing of what you really are, rather than what you take yourself to be.

On that note, when you say:
>Hi, I have been searching for truth for a while now
>I have no religious background
>I'm not too sure what to expect from this forum but I am so ready to give up everything so I can live freely. Thank you.
>I realised in my recent years that I had been living in my head for I think my whole life.
>I don't see much hope for the future either.
>Lately I feel I am becoming VERY self-conscious, not sure why, and it's like I can't function in normal conversations, my mind keeps on asking 'how should I respond, how should I act' etc.
… you reference this ‘I’ a lot.

What is this ‘I’, that searches, that has no religious background, that isn’t too sure, that realised in its recent years, that doesn’t see much hope, that feels it is becoming VERY self conscious…. and so on?

When you reference this ‘I’, what are you talking about?


Tell me about this 'I'.

Be well,

Aragon
... dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions.... - Nirmala

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Nananami
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Re: Would like a guide.. :)

Postby Nananami » Mon Jul 27, 2015 2:35 am

What is this ‘I’, that searches, that has no religious background, that isn’t too sure, that realised in its recent years, that doesn’t see much hope, that feels it is becoming VERY self conscious…. and so on?

When you reference this ‘I’, what are you talking about?
From my direct experience I feel like it is a Nanami essence. Or is it just words. No I feel like it is the substance that occupies this body.

I am my essence and everybody else is their essence and we are all separate.

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Aragon
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Re: Would like a guide.. :)

Postby Aragon » Mon Jul 27, 2015 6:01 pm

Hi Nanami,

Thanks again for your reply.
From my direct experience I feel like it is a Nanami essence. Or is it just words. No I feel like it is the substance that occupies this body.

I am my essence and everybody else is their essence and we are all separate.
Yes, it can seem like we are individuals, separate, that there is a ‘me’ that inhabits this body. This is what we are going to look at. We are going to look for this ‘essence’, this ‘me’, and see if we can find it – to see if it is really there, or if it is just an illusion.

First we are going to learn how to ‘look’.

Can you sit in a quiet room, where noises outside can be heard. Close your eyes and just listen to the sounds for a few minutes. Really hear them.

Tell me one noise that you heard when doing this?

Speak soon,

Aragon
... dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions.... - Nirmala

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Nananami
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Re: Would like a guide.. :)

Postby Nananami » Tue Jul 28, 2015 1:34 am

Hi, thanks for replying

I hear birds chirping in the distance

:)

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Aragon
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Re: Would like a guide.. :)

Postby Aragon » Tue Jul 28, 2015 7:32 am

Hi Nanami,

Great! Now can you repeat the exercise…

Tell me,
- How is it known there are birds?
- What is it that says there are birds?
- What is the actual experience of ‘hearing birds chirping’.


[where actual experience = what is actually happening, as opposed to thoughts about it]

Try to do the exercise and see what happens , rather than give an intellectual answer....

Write what you find,

Aragon
... dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions.... - Nirmala

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Nananami
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Re: Would like a guide.. :)

Postby Nananami » Tue Jul 28, 2015 8:52 am

Hi again
How is it known there are birds?
Because I am alive. That's how. If I were dead I wouldn't. It feels pretty simple
What is it that says there are birds?
This presence I guess. Though this feeling is lost after a while since my mind starts to take over and process what's going on.
What is the actual experience of ‘hearing birds chirping’.
It's like, the noise is happening and then I am there to experience it.

Not sure if these answers are what you're looking for. Please let me know if they aren't

Thanks again :)

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Aragon
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Re: Would like a guide.. :)

Postby Aragon » Tue Jul 28, 2015 5:00 pm

Hi Nanami,

Thanks for your answers. I get what you are saying but I am trying to point to something else:
It's like, the noise is happening and then I am there to experience it.
Okay, there is noise – let’s call it sound – that is direct experience…

But do you have direct experience of the birds? How do you know the birds are there? How do you know, for example, it isn’t someone outside with a CD player? It may sound silly but what we are interested in is what is known, not thoughts about what is known.....

In that moment of hearing the sound, how is it known there are birds?
What is the actual experience of ‘birds’?

Speak soon,

Aragon
... dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions.... - Nirmala

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Nananami
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Re: Would like a guide.. :)

Postby Nananami » Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:36 pm

Umm then I wouldn't know that there are birds because my experience of hearing sound is in my head.. Like I'm not there and so this whole scenario is in my head..

Ahh I don't know if this is what you're trying to point at. Let me know.

Thank you

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Aragon
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Re: Would like a guide.. :)

Postby Aragon » Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:53 pm

Hi Nanami,

So you have an experience of hearing sound. Sound is heard. Sound is experienced.

But then you write ‘Birds are chirping in the distance’.

What is it that adds ‘birds are chirping in the distance’ to the experience of sound? This is not theory. This is what happens. You hear the sound but then you make the statement about the sound. How does that happen in your experience?

Try it with other sounds. Sit and listen. How does the process work, in your experience? How do you go from the sound, to the story about the sound?

Aragon
... dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions.... - Nirmala


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