Mindfulness,Meditation,and True Nature - Adam51387

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Adam51387
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Mindfulness,Meditation,and True Nature - Adam51387

Postby Adam51387 » Tue Jun 02, 2015 12:09 am

Please introduce yourself here:

I live in Boston, I have an agnostic line of thought on religion and find zen to be of particular interest as well as meditation.

-What brings you to Liberation Unleashed?
My Aunt told me about this sight.

-What is your background in terms of seeking and inquiry?
I have no formal conditioning or training in this matter. But i have seeking truth since adolesense. Bruce Lee writings pointed me in the Zen directions

-What do you expect of the conversation on this forum?
Insight, Liberation. A better understanding of how to Meditate and inquire

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Adam51387
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Re: Mindfulness,Meditation,and True Nature - Adam51387

Postby Adam51387 » Tue Jun 02, 2015 6:06 pm

Some times i doze off when i meditate, is that ok? During mindfulness meditations where i am trying to stay in the moment i feel i shouldnt be losing focus. As far as a relaxing meditation, id say its done its job.

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Adam51387
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Re: Mindfulness,Meditation,and True Nature - Adam51387

Postby Adam51387 » Wed Jun 03, 2015 2:59 am

I just got done sitting. Lately i,ve been reading a book called Heart of the Revolution by Noah Levine, and he talks about meditating on compassion and forgiveness, first to self then others you love then others you hold resentments on. Tonight I meditated on compassion for ones self, trying to feel love and warmth in the center of my being. I kept my back against my burrow because i have pain in the small of my back. I started off focusing on my breathing and observing my thoughts until i get to that place where i tap into the realization that conscience is observing thoughts and experiencing breathing. I then began to direct my thoughts and feelings towards love and compassion for ones self. There was some rigidity there, then the thought arrived, "why is it hard for me to feel compassion towards self?" Followed by a volley of answers in my mind. At some point during this my right leg began to fall asleep and get very uncomfortable. I held my position, the body yearned to move but i focused on the leg and began sending compassionate thoughts and understanding about the situation, my face was beginning to warm up, and it was at this peak of discomfort that i snapped back into my breathing and felt totally alert and in the moment, i didnt feel a need to move my leg, i just sat with the discomfort, i dont always do this. But in those moments i really began to feel present in the moment and realized my thoughts, physical feeling in the body, and consciousness were all seperate things happening, and nothing was taken to personal yet i felt intimate with self. I dont know if this is making sense or if i am doing this right but it was quite an experience, i really enjoyed tonights meditation. Good Night.

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Adam51387
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Re: Mindfulness,Meditation,and True Nature - Adam51387

Postby Adam51387 » Thu Jun 04, 2015 2:35 am

Worked with compassion again in tonight's meditation. I was becoming a little bitter towards people in my house and cynical towards there God discussion. I am glad i cleared my head of that when i sat tonight with compassion mantras. I am noticing that i have been slipping into the illusion of self the past few days. My mind struggles with this because for years i always believed in staying true to self, being an individual. I battled tonight with this: do voluntary thoughts and involuntary thoughts come from the same source? I suppose yes, they come from void. But "I" can direct voluntary thoughts, so there must be a "me" to do that. I notice when i focus on my breathing thoughts are created less often. As I type I am aware that I am just building another story in my head based off of observations by consciousness, and the moment is very plain and simple. Serenity. Goodnight.

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Sarah7
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Re: Mindfulness,Meditation,and True Nature - Adam51387

Postby Sarah7 » Thu Jun 04, 2015 11:13 am

Hey Adam
Im Sarah and Id be happy to talk with you.
Have you looked around the site? Do you know what we do here?
Hugs Sarah xxx
If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.

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Adam51387
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Re: Mindfulness,Meditation,and True Nature - Adam51387

Postby Adam51387 » Thu Jun 04, 2015 12:04 pm

I,ve only looked around a little bit, my understanding is that you guide some one into the realization that there is no self. Am i doing this wrong? Lol

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Re: Mindfulness,Meditation,and True Nature - Adam51387

Postby Sarah7 » Thu Jun 04, 2015 1:53 pm

Hey Sdam
Lol - no!

There are a few house keeping standard ground rules I need you to confirm before we start if you want to proceed.

Please agree to post at least once a day, even if only to say that you're still around, and I'll do the same. Sometimes it might just not be possible for one of us to post substantively and of course we'd find a way to work round that.

I am not your teacher, all I can do is point and you look, until clear seeing happens.

In general, I will ask questions and you look deeply and respond with 100% honesty.

Responses require simple, uncontrived honest looking. There are no wrong or right answers.

Responses are best from direct experience (the physical evidence of seeing, hearing, touching, tasting, and smelling, prior to the story or explanation about them). Long-winded, analytical and philosophical or stream of consciousness answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. Just listen very closely to the answers that arise in you, and answer to the very best of your ability at that time. (Read the article at http://www.liberationunleashed.com/Arti ... ience.html for more help on distinguishing what is direct experience.)

Put aside all other teachings, philosophies etc. for the duration of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention into seeing this reality, as it is. (If you have a daily and essential meditation practice, it's ok to continue with that. And it's fine to read threads in this forum and the Gateless Gatecrashers book.)

Please learn to use the quote function, see viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660 for instructions.

If you haven't already seen it, there is intro info at http://www.liberationunleashed.com/, together with our disclaimer and a short video.

Please confirm that you have seen these, that you agree to the disclaimer and then we'll begin.

Finally, here's a couple of helpful points:
1) You can press 'subscribe to this topic' in the blue bar at the bottom of this page and receive a notification email every time I post here.

2) The site has a nasty habit of logging you out while you write a reply, which can mean you lose what you have written. One way to avoid this is to write elsewhere, then just paste the message into the 'reply' window when you're ready to send.
Hugs Sarah xxx
If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.

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Adam51387
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Re: Mindfulness,Meditation,and True Nature - Adam51387

Postby Adam51387 » Thu Jun 04, 2015 3:55 pm

I will make a point to post atleast once a day to my thread. I have read the disclaimer, and will try my best to speak from direct experience with honesty and keep an open heart and mind, as well as to drop all preconcieved notions.

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Sarah7
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Re: Mindfulness,Meditation,and True Nature - Adam51387

Postby Sarah7 » Thu Jun 04, 2015 6:05 pm

Thanks for that Adam
So lets begin!
How do you think, feel or experience the 'self', 'I' or ‘me’'?

For instance does it feel like its in the centre or middle of experience, is it solid or thick, does it feel fixed or permanent, is it inside the body or part of the body, does it change, does it feel uniquely different and separate, does it become more or less solid or obvious depending on experience, does it have colour or shape or texture, is it small or large, does this self own the body or the thoughts and feelings it experiences?

Is it made up of thoughts and feelings, sensations, emotions, likes and dislikes, opinions, memories and experiences, perceptions, character and personality, does this self decide, chose, act, do and control? Anything else? Is there a time when the self is not experienced?

Now have a really good look and tell me where does the 'self' that you conceive yourself to be reside? Is it in the body as a whole, part of the body or somewhere else? Can you pinpoint an exact reference point? Can it be found, at all?

Can anything exist outside the present moment? Can you find anything that does?

In your direct experience, is there anything permanent right now?
Hugs Sarah xxx
If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.

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Adam51387
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Re: Mindfulness,Meditation,and True Nature - Adam51387

Postby Adam51387 » Sat Jun 06, 2015 2:52 am

Well, first of all i would like to say that the majority of my experience is felt in my head and then upper chest and abdomen. I am very cerebral, very "heady". For many years i believed my thoughts, i believed them to be true, my truth, and it almost killed me, i was very rigid and anything outside of my conclusions were dismissed. All of my experience seems to be contained with my body, very seldom do i actually feel apart of my environment. Of course i do feel feelings, and they reinforce the story in my head often times, and i have to work through it mentally with proper self talk to reach the realization that its either not true or possible to change.i feel peaceful tonight, had a long day of work, there is a calmness in my chest/heart and my thoughts are very fluid and kind of light. Last night a realization occured to me that thoughts are things that manifest out of nothing, circle around one another, and disappear. I remember wanting to share that with you. Any way, self seems to exist within the physical shell of my body, but its exact whereabouts are unknown, what exactly is self is unknown, it seems to inhabit different sections of body based on what i am doing at the moment. But as i type about this the self seems like whatever my awareness seems to be conscious of at any giving moment within mind and body. Hope i answered all of the questions. Talk to you soon.

P.S i feel very much in this moment now, cant really imagine anything real outside of now. Except for the undefineable what is yet to come.

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Re: Mindfulness,Meditation,and True Nature - Adam51387

Postby Sarah7 » Sat Jun 06, 2015 8:07 am

Hey Adam
For many years i believed my thoughts, i believed them to be true, my truth,
And now? Are the content of thoughts real?
I am very cerebral, very "heady".
Do you control thoughts? How? Do you bring them? Create them? Send them away? Stop them? Do you know where they come from? Or where they go? What is your next thought going to be – in other words do you chose your thoughts before you have them?
Can a thought think?
What power do thoughts have?
Last night a realization occured to me that thoughts are things that manifest out of nothing, circle around one another, and disappear.
Lovely. Well noticed!
Hugs Sarah xxx
If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.

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Adam51387
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Re: Mindfulness,Meditation,and True Nature - Adam51387

Postby Adam51387 » Sun Jun 07, 2015 5:15 am

The contents of thoughts feel real, i,ve just gotten better with dismissing them quickly so that they dont stir up as much feelings. I realize the story in my head isnt accurate.

I feel as though i control some thoughts. Others are involuntary. I control them by creating them. I cant really control when they stop. They come from the void, the nothing, and they either go back there or manifest into the physical realm through action or attraction, but this is just a theory of mine, and i dont think the actual thoughts become something, they cause something. Sometimes i feel i can know my next immediate thought if i plan to think it, i dont think thoughts them selfs can think. Thoughts only have as much poer as you give them and i believe that .

take care look forward to hearing from you.

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Re: Mindfulness,Meditation,and True Nature - Adam51387

Postby Sarah7 » Sun Jun 07, 2015 11:11 am

Hey Adam
I feel as though i control some thoughts. Others are involuntary. I control them by creating them.
How do you create a thought? Can you explain what you actually experience here?
I cant really control when they stop. They come from the void, the nothing, and they either go back there or manifest into the physical realm through action or attraction, but this is just a theory of mine,
No theories! Look at actual experience please.
and i dont think the actual thoughts become something,

Can you give me an example here please? Do you mean like doing?
Sometimes i feel i can know my next immediate thought if i plan to think it,
Feel? Or actually experience? Look again please.
i dont think thoughts them selfs can think.

Think or have looked? What is experienced here please?
Thoughts only have as much power as you give them and i believe that
When you say ‘you’ here – what exactly are you talking about – What gives thoughts power? Is it another thought? Or something else? Have a look.
Hugs Sarah xxx
If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.

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Adam51387
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Re: Mindfulness,Meditation,and True Nature - Adam51387

Postby Adam51387 » Sun Jun 07, 2015 1:53 pm

Last night i was sitting on the train listening to music when i responded, my response was clouded.
I just sat in meditation and focused on just breathing and what you asked.i saw this:

thoughts also are created based on your minds conditioning. As far as thoughts thinking i think the insight i had about thoughts revolving around each other
answers that, the thoughts are co dependent of each other.Thoughts are involuntary, they echo off of awareness looking at different things or seeking or being aware of different things can bring different sets of thoughts, but you cant actually create them. For example, when the body feels cold the mind echos thoughts such as get away from this, i dont like this, how can i get warmer etc. Thoughts are also created based on your minds conditioning. As far as thoughts thinking the realization that i had a couple nights ago about them revolving around each other hold true, the thoughts are co dependent of each other. What gives thoughts power is external proof or confirmation of the thoughts, and then the self is tricked into believing, and reinforcing the thoughts, which creates a story in the mind. (Delusion)?

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Re: Mindfulness,Meditation,and True Nature - Adam51387

Postby Sarah7 » Sun Jun 07, 2015 3:52 pm

Hi Adam
What gives thoughts power is external proof or confirmation of the thoughts, and then the self is tricked into believing, and reinforcing the thoughts, which creates a story in the mind. (Delusion)?
What do you mean by self here? What are you pointing at?

Are you clear that there is no control over thoughts? Or would you like to look at this some more?

Have you ever noticed sometimes that you arrive at a destination and don't really recall actually making the journey? It was as if the body was just doing its thing, driving just happened. It is only afterwards that the mind grabs hold of the experience and states 'I was driving the car' or, if questioned whilst driving (a present continuous activity), it would say 'I am driving the car'.
Whether your mind is totally concentrating on each gear shift that 'I' make, each look in the rear view mirror that 'I' makes, each twist of the steering wheel . . . or the entire journey is done automatically, the same result is achieved. Similarly when doing household tasks. Whether mind is involved or not, the task still gets accomplished. We call this autopilot. How much of your day is autopilot? Just give me a rough percentage.
Hugs Sarah xxx
If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.


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