A guide for mookerji please

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mookerji
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A guide for mookerji please

Postby mookerji » Thu May 21, 2015 7:48 pm

Huge appreciation for this community of guides.

It is the very definition of self-less! Which I guess is the point...

Thank you!

So I'm a man, early 40s (never sure exactly how old), living in Sydney Australia, we’re about to have our 3rd child.

I have been meditating, very simple vipassna for around 7 years. Not as a spiritual practice, for it’s focus and health benefits. I’m very new to the spirituality “scene” (if I can call it that) only dipped a toe in the water a couple of months ago.

What is most important now is the truth. I’ve zero interest in concepts or beliefs which might or might not be true. After years of denying there was such a thing as “truth” - I’ve realised I’ve been running away from the only truth there is.

And this is it.

This direct pointing approach appeals. Because it is instantly verifiable in experience.

(Wow! Huge lightning storm outside. The best kind with no rain. Very apt.)

So I’ve been journaling my journey daily for a month, I have read the book, have done the “start here” process on Ilona’s blog, and have experienced 4 definite moments of insight that shifted perspective distinctly.

The only thing making me unsure I’m already done is the fact I'm unsure.

I’ve read a few times - you just know when you know - so I’m here to either check, “stabilise” or instigate.

Please could someone guide me? Many thanks…

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codyjdennis
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Re: A guide for mookerji please

Postby codyjdennis » Thu May 21, 2015 8:39 pm

Hi Mookerji,

Thanks for your intro! Good to have you here at LU. I would be happy to be your guide if you're okay with that.

:)
Cody
All there is, is liberation. What arises in liberation is the idea that 'I' am not liberated.

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mookerji
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Re: A guide for mookerji please

Postby mookerji » Thu May 21, 2015 9:09 pm

Cody!

I would be honoured to have you as my guide. Thank you.

Ready to jump off... :)

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codyjdennis
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Re: A guide for mookerji please

Postby codyjdennis » Fri May 22, 2015 7:46 am

:) wonderful

Before we get started there are a few technical things to get out of the way.

1. Post at least once a day, if you cannot post, or need more time, let me know.
2. Be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.
3. Answer from personal experience only.
4. Read the disclaimer on the Liberation Unleashed main page - http://www.liberationunleashed.com/
5. Read the FAQ page to get an idea of what we do here - http://www.liberationunleashed.com/LU_FAQ.html
6. Learn how to use the quote function when responded to messages - viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

-----

If you agree to the above let me know that you do then read/continue on below.

-----

Really what we're here doing together is so so simple. All that's going on is taking a look at the experience we are in right now and checking to see if there is actually a self here right now. LU calls this direct experience. "DE" consists of our senses (tasting, touching, smelling., seeing, hearing).

So right now. All I am going to ask you is looking in your experience right now, is there a self?

Do not look to thought first. Look in your experience then tell me what you find. Be like a scientist into your own experience. Observe. Do you find a self?
All there is, is liberation. What arises in liberation is the idea that 'I' am not liberated.

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mookerji
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Re: A guide for mookerji please

Postby mookerji » Fri May 22, 2015 8:58 pm

1. Post at least once a day, if you cannot post, or need more time, let me know.
I will do that. I usually get up around 4-5am Sydney time which is 6pm - 7pm UST/GMT and after that pretty much the first thing I'll do is post a response here.

The only fly in the ointment is an impending baby. :-0

That is imminent. I did think about starting this process after, but I realise (after experience with 2 others little uns) that I might not do this at all if I put it off.

No "time" like RIGHT NOW eh? In fact there isn't time apart from right now is there? ;)
2. Be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.
3. Answer from personal experience only.
Absolutely. Nothing but the verifiable truth. That's why this is happening!
4. Read the disclaimer on the Liberation Unleashed main page - http://www.liberationunleashed.com/
5. Read the FAQ page to get an idea of what we do here - http://www.liberationunleashed.com/LU_FAQ.html
6. Learn how to use the quote function when responded to messages - viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660
Done, done and done (obviously)
If you agree to the above let me know that you do then read/continue on below.
I agree!
So right now. All I am going to ask you is looking in your experience right now, is there a self?

Do not look to thought first. Look in your experience then tell me what you find. Be like a scientist into your own experience. Observe. Do you find a self?
There is no self in seeing, hearing, feeling, tasting or smelling. They just happen and when observing - no seer, hearer, feeler, taster or smeller can be found.

Since this realisation (which happened over a few days of looking last week) life has become smoother. There is still emotion / pain / annoyance / frustration, but it has less “purchase”, less impact.

There’s also been less striving, seeking and pushing - in work and life in general. What happens, happens.

(And totally against expectations this has lead to an increase in creative output. I have my own online business where I create content all the time. I’ve made more in the last week since the unfolding realisation than the last few months! Without having to push / drag that fictional self around.)

Where there is uncertainty:

Often when in the flow of life it seems like there is an attachment to certain happenings - particular emotion which feels like it could be the illusory “self”.

For instance a negative occurrence last week:

A refund request (completely part of the expected goings on in the business - nothing to be concerned about) - and then these feelings of “taking it personally”. Wanting to “prove” that what “I” provide is x, y & z. All internal thoughts and feelings of course.

And a positive one:

A great exchange with an employee where she showed genuine appreciation - and the feeling was of pride. "I" liked it. This also felt like it was attached to this illusory “self”, even though reading it back now I know this was a feeling happening.

There are other examples - but in the moment when these positive and negative things happen - there is literally no difference in perspective between the way "I" was before the realisation and after.

What might be helpful here…

The realisation happened over a number of days through a number of insights. But the most “powerful” was when looking to expectations of what this realisation will mean.

And it seems that the uncertainty displayed above is also related to expectations?

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codyjdennis
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Re: A guide for mookerji please

Postby codyjdennis » Sun May 24, 2015 9:07 am

The only fly in the ointment is an impending baby. :-0
:D Congrats!
In fact there isn't time apart from right now is there? ;)
Nope :)


As for the second part of your response..you may be experiencing expectations of how it should look like after seeing. Like you're not supposed to experience this attachment to the story. More often than not people experience these self referential patterns. And in being totally open with you. So do I.

Also notice carefully how you're saying "I saw it over the course of a few days." That is in the past.

And is there actually a past?

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with stating it the way you did. Just bringing it to the surface here to show you that there could be attachment to a past seeing and not a live seeing. Live seeing is fresh and new. Thought is very good at making a seeing static and twisting it for it's own usage.

if not, the only thing that truly matters is whether you see it now. Always right now.

there is literally no difference in perspective between the way "I" was before the realisation and after.
Yes :)
All there is, is liberation. What arises in liberation is the idea that 'I' am not liberated.

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mookerji
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Re: A guide for mookerji please

Postby mookerji » Mon May 25, 2015 2:34 am

is there actually a past?
No. Of course not. Both past and future are thoughts. Just as "self" is a thought.

In the moment - when noticing this is the moment and not being distracted by thinking THIS is always seen - it is obvious there is no past, future or self. Where it is less obvious is when thoughts of past and future arise.

But this might be where there's a bit of sticking. Because it is always the present moment!

Whether noticing the "now" - or just noticing thoughts about "past" or "future". It is all now.

Thing is - there is a lot of thought around past and future here. But whether there is or there isn't - this is what is happening in the moment!

So what now? :-)

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codyjdennis
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Re: A guide for mookerji please

Postby codyjdennis » Mon May 25, 2015 10:20 pm

When thoughts of past and future arise does it show you that there is actually a past and future? I understand that during the thoughts it can be kind of convincing. However, the problem is not with thoughts about past and future because they are actually really useful. Just notice that during the thoughts of past and future does not mean or make real a past and future. They are simply tools.

Notice this too: is it even true to call whatever this is the "present moment"? When does this 'moment' end and begin? Is there a boundary?
All there is, is liberation. What arises in liberation is the idea that 'I' am not liberated.

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mookerji
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Re: A guide for mookerji please

Postby mookerji » Tue May 26, 2015 8:32 pm

When thoughts of past and future arise does it show you that there is actually a past and future?/quote]

No it does not! They are simply thoughts.
Just notice that during the thoughts of past and future does not mean or make real a past and future. They are simply tools.
Yes!
is it even true to call whatever this is the "present moment"?
Wow! Of course not. *BOOM* :)
When does this 'moment' end and begin? Is there a boundary?
GREAT question! Particularly loving the attempt to find a boundary. Like trying in vain to find a limit to awareness - there is no boundary to anything.

There is only this. Big aha there.

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mookerji
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Re: A guide for mookerji please

Postby mookerji » Tue May 26, 2015 8:34 pm

(Sorry got a little carried away with the quote and ended up in a weird quote vortex...)

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codyjdennis
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Re: A guide for mookerji please

Postby codyjdennis » Tue May 26, 2015 9:29 pm

No worries.
GREAT question! Particularly loving the attempt to find a boundary. Like trying in vain to find a limit to awareness - there is no boundary to anything.

There is only this. Big aha there.
Wonderful :)

Now...
Go deeper.

Is it really even accurate to say "there is only this"?

Thought/Mind likes to pin down things and come to a conclusion. It can do that by concluding that there is only "this". You do not need to stop calling it that. Again, all I am pushing for is to see that any conclusion is ultimately not true. If that is seen it does not matter what you choose to call it.
All there is, is liberation. What arises in liberation is the idea that 'I' am not liberated.

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mookerji
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Re: A guide for mookerji please

Postby mookerji » Tue May 26, 2015 9:53 pm

Is it really even accurate to say "there is only this"?
"There is" might be more accurate?

Or maybe no words.

A little confused - could you clarify this:
any conclusion is ultimately not true
Is is that the statement presupposes an "end", a "full stop" where there is none? Just a never ending stream of happening?

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mookerji
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Re: A guide for mookerji please

Postby mookerji » Wed May 27, 2015 8:42 pm

So here's where I've got to from looking...

“There is only this” - is that a conclusion?

It is and I’d never realised it.

There is an endless stream of this-ing.

There is.

Any conclusion - any end - any idea that anything has ended or come to rest is an illusion created by mind.

Also any ”thing”, any this, any that is an illusion.

There is happening. No past, no future, no this, no that.

Just happening.

I see it, yes. I could call it anything because “it” is everything.

(And not any “thing” at the same time.)

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codyjdennis
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Re: A guide for mookerji please

Postby codyjdennis » Thu May 28, 2015 9:31 am

Thank you for posting today. I've read it, but have no yet had time to fully respond. I just wanted to let you know I'll do so tomorrow morning since I'm in Pacific Time in Oakland, California.
All there is, is liberation. What arises in liberation is the idea that 'I' am not liberated.

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codyjdennis
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Re: A guide for mookerji please

Postby codyjdennis » Fri May 29, 2015 6:52 pm

Wonderful post!

Yes, anything that is labeled on top of reality is the "illusion" or "dream". It's not that it doesn't have value, or use, as a tool but it doesn't hold some inherent 'truth' in it. All of it is false or as I like to call it..bullshit.

"Just happening" is a good way to put it.
All there is, is liberation. What arises in liberation is the idea that 'I' am not liberated.


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