Guide

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Robertdjemil
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Guide

Postby Robertdjemil » Wed May 13, 2015 7:15 am

I've been on a spiritual journey all my life, I'm now 50 years old. I've travelled the world looking for answers & beating myself up along the way but nothing has given me an answer to helping me fill that void inside like something is missing. I always knew that the answer is within me but for some reason I continued searching outside of me. I've done much internal enquiry over the past couple of years & it has led me here. I could write a book on my experiences getting here but having been introduced to liberation unleashed & having read posts etc I now understand things better, it makes sense & I'm would like to request a guide to take me to the gate

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Canfora
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Re: Guide

Postby Canfora » Wed May 13, 2015 9:53 am

Hi Robert and welcome to the LU forum.

I will share some guidelines to make this process clearer for you:

1. This is your journey. I am a Guide. I am not a teacher, guru or therapist. We walk together and I keep pointing the way. You make the journey. My pointing mostly will take the form of questions that I will ask and you will answer.

2. When posting, you are committed to responding from direct experience (felt senses and observed thoughts). You understand that longwinded analytical or philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress.

3. You commit to responding to questions with utmost honesty.

4. You are comfortable setting aside all other teachings, philosophies and “isms” for the remainder of this investigation. This means you will put all your effort and attention into seeing reality as it is here in this investigation. If you have a daily and essential meditation practice, it is fine to continue that.

5. English isn't my first language. If you have doubts about what I say ask questions. I will do the same.

6. Please read our disclaimer and have a look at the introductory materials: http://www.liberationunleashed.com/

If all this sounds ok, respond back to confirm you are comfortable with the above guidelines.

I now understand things better, it makes sense
Also, can you talk a little more about what is it that you understand better and what makes sense after some reading?

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Robertdjemil
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Re: Guide

Postby Robertdjemil » Wed May 13, 2015 10:59 pm

I confirm that I am comfortable with the stated guidelines

All my life I have searched for an answer to fill an inner void like something was missing in me. As a result of certain childhood experiences I grew up with a sense of not being good enough, not worthy, feelings of self doubt & loathing. I created a character that I thought everyone would like because I was riddled with vulnerabilities & insecurities & I didn't want anyone to see those & the character protected me from being exposed. As the years passed I became the character & forgot who I was. This led to fillings of despair & desperation. I travelled the world looking for answers that would help me find the inner peace that was illuding me but I couldn't find the answers anywhere outside of me either. I remember reading a quote that changed my life "it's difficult to find happiness in oneself but it's impossible to find it anywhere else" as a result I turned inward & started listening to my body, feeling the pain but without any dialogue, identification or doing a dance with it but I even struggled with that. Little had changed over the years, the pain is less but the addictions & feelings of self loathing are to some degree still there or until until last weekend they still were. I was introduced to liberation unleashed & it made complete sense to me, resonated immediately. I was never in control of my thoughts or anything else & this seemed to me to be the reason why I've not got anywhere. I would only add that I feel I've got control of my thoughts, I make choices & I have free will which is clearly contradictory. I accept this is a dichotomy which I'm yet to understand but it feels right & I have no intention to do an intellectual dance with it. My life has always been about feelings & that's what I use to navigated life. For information I are Iboga (plant medicine) & this week has been the most peaceful of my adult life. As a result of reading LU I've had lots of tears this week which is very unlike me but the realisation of what's being said on the one hand is liberating whilst on the other, scary. The thought that I am not who I think I am & all else is an illusion brings into question my own identity, everything I've ever known to be true. This leaves in in the precarious position of having no idea who I am, what any of this is about & I the bigger question is, if I'm not this who am I?

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Canfora
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Re: Guide

Postby Canfora » Thu May 14, 2015 11:30 am

Thank you for sharing your path, thoughts and current experiences!
This leaves in in the precarious position of having no idea who I am, what any of this is about & I the bigger question is, if I'm not this who am I?
Not knowing can be an amazing place to be.
As a result of reading LU I've had lots of tears this week which is very unlike me but the realisation of what's being said on the one hand is liberating whilst on the other, scary.
Can you talk a little more about this realization? What did you realize?
The thought that I am not who I think I am & all else is an illusion brings into question my own identity, everything I've ever known to be true.
How do you know what is real and what isn't? Give me some examples from your normal everyday experience, please.

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Robertdjemil
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Re: Guide

Postby Robertdjemil » Thu May 14, 2015 7:31 pm

I hope so because i certainly in a blank space right now.

What I realized is that in this life all I've known is me 'robert' and everything and everyone associated with it. If things are just happening, thoughts arising and that's not me, then who am I in this reality. The thought of doing this work and walking away from the only thing I've ever known to be true is scary. The thought of leaving a reality that I know to enter into a reality that's unknown was initially a frightening thought. As the days have passed I've become more comfortable and the initial fear has disappeared. I've always known that we are not separated beings and intrinsically connected but the reality of this truth hit me harder than I imagined. I cant even be sure I was crying out of relief or fear to be honest

I don't know what is real & unreal. I thought I did a week ago. I thought I was my mind and my body which is a vehicle that I occupy during this incarnation. I am responsible for my thoughts and actions, my ability to choose, decide, plan, think, love and all those usual things. I believed that I had to be mindful of my thoughts, always being positive and happy and with the right intentions in order to manifest the reality, the life I wanted. I'm now not sure I've been responsible for any of that

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Canfora
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Re: Guide

Postby Canfora » Fri May 15, 2015 10:48 am

Robert, is reality unknown or is reality the way it was before, with the difference that now your perception of it is changing because you can see reality more as it is instead of how you thought it was?

I understand your need to know what this is and what you are but that isn't the goal of this forum (although LU has some resources for further investigation that people can use after crossing the gate). The goal of this forum is to help you see through the illusion of a separate self.

I would love to know what makes you say you may not be a separate I after all. What changed? What do you see going on that makes you say this?


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Robertdjemil
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Re: Guide

Postby Robertdjemil » Fri May 15, 2015 1:54 pm

Reality is unknown to me but it's getting clearer. It seems that everything is just happening and I have created a relationship with that believing I am the controller and there's an individual 'Me' My cloudy perspective now is, that there's no individual self only an awareness of what is. Is that correct?

I say i'm not separate because I've always believed intuitively that we are all connected, we are all one. The idea that we are separate isn't in alignment with my beliefs. This viewpoint hasn't changed, in fact, it's got stronger inasmuch that if everything is just happening, thoughts arising suggests there's something behind 'Me' the individual that is more than me and therefore not separate

I found those questions quite challenging and I hope I've understood what you're asking and answered appropriately

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Canfora
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Re: Guide

Postby Canfora » Fri May 15, 2015 3:29 pm

I found those questions quite challenging and I hope I've understood what you're asking and answered appropriately
Don't worry with the possibility of giving the wrong answers and feel free to write what comes up.
It seems that everything is just happening
What I would like to know is what makes you say that "it seems everything is just happening".

Is this a logical conclusion or are there some things that you do see just happening, that let you know that what you're saying is true? If it's the last case, what are those things, that are just happening without a separate you?

Let me know if this ^ doesn't make sense to you.

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Robertdjemil
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Re: Guide

Postby Robertdjemil » Fri May 15, 2015 3:53 pm

Breathing is happening, heart is beating, digestion is taking care of itself. The wind blows, the sun shines, the grass grows, water flows. No one appears to be doing that. Maybe everything is just happening including me. Intuitively
this feels right to me

Maybe it's logical I'm not sure but it feels right too. I think I can see them just happening but I don't whether it's a logical conclusion or not & I don't know what you mean by seeing. It's logical but it seems like common sense too.

I'm not sure I understand your question @what's happening without a separate me" Can you ask that question in another way?

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Canfora
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Re: Guide

Postby Canfora » Fri May 15, 2015 4:53 pm

Breathing is happening, heart is beating, digestion is taking care of itself. The wind blows, the sun shines, the grass grows, water flows. No one appears to be doing that. Maybe everything is just happening including me. Intuitively
this feels right to me
All that feels right to me too.
I think I can see them just happening but I don't whether it's a logical conclusion or not & I don't know what you mean by seeing. It's logical but it seems like common sense too.
A very simple example to explain the difference between "thinking" and "seeing": you can "think" an apple is ripe but the only way to be sure if it is, is by "experiencing" (looking to, feeling, tasting) the apple.

So "looking" = "experiencing" what is going on with the senses - seeing, touching, hearing, tasting, feeling - instead of relying in the content of thinking.

And to me "seeing" is also the simple looking to what is happening here and now - the plain seeing of what is going on.
I'm not sure I understand your question @what's happening without a separate me" Can you ask that question in another way?
Let's practice "seeing" a little.

If you look around you, can you experience a separate me - a solid, independente, unchanging entity, separate from life?

This thing you call "I"? Can you find it if you look for it?

Have a look and tell me what you find!

Again, let me know if any of this doesn't make sense to you :)

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Robertdjemil
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Re: Guide

Postby Robertdjemil » Fri May 15, 2015 6:14 pm

I think I can experience the 'I' as it appears to be me. I appear to be separate from life even though I feel intuitively its not true. I can't say I am a solid, independent, unchangeable entity because I accept that I'm constantly changing

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Canfora
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Re: Guide

Postby Canfora » Sat May 16, 2015 1:50 pm

I can't say I am a solid, independent, unchangeable entity because I accept that I'm constantly changing
Then what can you say that the I is? Here and now, what is this I you're talking about?
I think I can experience the 'I' as it appears to be me.
How do you know that you're experiencing an "I"?
Can you see, hear, taste, touch or feel this I that appears to be me?

You can see the computer in front of you. The computer is there, no doubt about it. Can you also experience an I or a me? How do you know one is present?

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Robertdjemil
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Re: Guide

Postby Robertdjemil » Sat May 16, 2015 2:07 pm

I can only visualise the I as the body, the mind. Other than that I can't say I know where the I is. Is the I my awareness?

I dont know that I'm experiencing the I. I know that I am here & I have an awareness & a body & I translate that as being the I or me

The only thing I can touch with my senses is the body I think is me.

I don't know what I'm experiencing as I can't diffe between 'Me' 'I' & my body

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Robertdjemil
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Re: Guide

Postby Robertdjemil » Sat May 16, 2015 6:28 pm

If I close my eyes & try to experience the 'I' it appears to be an expansive awareness but I'm not sure if that's a conceptual, logical awareness or a reality because it's possibly all being created by my thoughts about what I think is true.

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Canfora
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Re: Guide

Postby Canfora » Sat May 16, 2015 7:05 pm

I can only visualise the I as the body, the mind.
If the I is the body, does that mean there is an entity inside the body, controlling what is going on in the body - the way it moves, digestion, the blinking of the eyes? A little man inside the brain, inside a thing called mind, pressing some buttons?

If you look at the hands, are the hands you or is a you inside them?
How can you be something that you can visualise, an "object" that can be perceived?
If I close my eyes & try to experience the 'I' it appears to be an expansive awareness but I'm not sure if that's a conceptual, logical awareness or a reality because it's possibly all being created by my thoughts about what I think is true.
If there is awareness of this expansive awareness, then how can you be something that is being perceived, that you can see, that is being experienced?

Try to see what is seeing this expansive awareness. Is a person, a separate you doing the seeing or is the seeing happening without a doer? What can you see when you try to find what you think it's you? What's there?

Spend some time with these questions, Robert. I'm not asking them so that you can think about them. They're an invitation to look, experience, sense and describe what you can see going on right now.


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