please guide me

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premji
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please guide me

Postby premji » Tue May 12, 2015 4:56 pm

Dear Friends,
A small description to call my guide
When I followed the thread “guide unto noself ” guided by jonathanR…(wich I found brilliant) I was surprised I stopped reading several times…..…I did not want to see(“get”) it without someone confirming me that that’s it….…what would I do after 35 years of searching if I see it……….not being in control…
When I was 17 I left my country to meet Osho… along spend years doing several months long vipassana retreats with Goenka…..lived with Papaji…. Tiruvanamalai…and in between loosing it by hallucinatic drug abuse…
Now am living in an Indonesian jungle..all by myself..deleted all my friends…and any past connections
Still looking for truth…even though after many clear seeing…I always dismiss everything and start from abc again
Just now I learned that Lisa from LU passed away ,and as it was her videos that connected me to LU 4 years ago,and
together with Rumi’s quote wich found me at the same time.
.”with a guide the journey might take only two days whereas alone it might take a hundred years”
I finally lost my shyness ,and or shame to join and ask for guidance
Thank you for being here

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JonathanR
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Re: please guide me

Postby JonathanR » Tue May 12, 2015 8:35 pm

Hello Premji,

Welcome to LU. I am JonathanR, (Jon for short). Thanks for posting a request for a guide. Perhaps I may assist you? What a journey you have been through
"with a guide the journey might take only two days whereas alone it might take a hundred years”
Wise words indeed.

You have clearly read and have known about LU for four years thanks to dear Lisa. I wonder if you could say what you might expect of this process? What you may wish to see or gain and how that might change things? Don't be shy about stating any kind of hope or expectation, however insignificant they may be.

Warm regards,

Jon

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premji
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Re: please guide me

Postby premji » Wed May 13, 2015 2:38 am

Thank you so much for willing to assist me…..i coulnt wish for a better guide…
Yes I ve been watching and over and over listening to the enlightened quates…
Was always amazed by the content….all the best of the best
Just to let you know…I live in the jungle here without electricity….got a little solar panel wich can recharge my computer once a day…aswell internet connection is quite bad here and sometimes not at all..so please bear with me if I miss a day to respond
Also I am a bit of a computer nurt….and not so fast to figure out how things work.

I wonder if you could say what you might expect of this process? What you may wish to see or gain and how that might change things? Don't be shy about stating any kind of hope or expectation, however insignificant they may be.[quote][/quote]

I hope (expect) that my doubts and wavering are finished….stop believing thought actually say something about “me”……what am I really ?....as the sense of “I” ,”I am” is strong
To stop judging others and their actions (the world)
And to REALLY once and forever SEE and KNOW without any doubt that there is no person
That life is all there is and I am that…
To be finished with the search….you know I love to seek…new books,(now only non duality)….what this teacher says..and that teacher…deep down I feel I I am not wothty yet or ready enough to see reality..
And of course the change would be….relaxation…loving what is and compassion
Thank you

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premji
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Re: please guide me

Postby premji » Wed May 13, 2015 2:59 am

Just want to tell you again how happy I am to have finally registerd….and have you as my guide.
My heart is dancing wiyh joy and gratefulness…
Haven’t figured how to put text in the pink box yet…and will try to send this with the..”quick reply” button to see
Funny…to notice the thought/feeling…”ah…youre such a case…don’t be sure Jon will assist you…he might change his mind.”
Sorry, but trust …in human beings…I have very little
Dear regards prem

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JonathanR
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Re: please guide me

Postby JonathanR » Wed May 13, 2015 6:31 am

Hello Prem,
Just to let you know…I live in the jungle here without electricity
I'm so impressed :-)
.got a little solar panel wich can recharge my computer once a day…aswell internet connection is quite bad here and sometimes not at all..so please bear with me if I miss a day to respond
Also I am a bit of a computer nurt….and not so fast to figure out how things work.
No problem at all. As you are probably aware, we encourage daily posting but I will understand if you can't always manage that. If the connection is down or it's going to be very awkward to post then don't feel agitated about the delay.
I hope (expect) that my doubts and wavering are finished….stop believing thought actually say something about “me”……what am I really ?....as the sense of “I” ,”I am” is strong
To stop judging others and their actions (the world)
And to REALLY once and forever SEE and KNOW without any doubt that there is no person
That life is all there is and I am that…
To be finished with the search….you know I love to seek…new books,(now only non duality)….what this teacher says..and that teacher…deep down I feel I I am not wothty yet or ready enough to see reality..
And of course the change would be….relaxation…loving what is and compassion
There are no wildly unrealistic expectations here but we tend to ask about these becasue it cannot be known what will happen or how 'liberation' will seem. It is very easy and common for people to be looking and searching for this or that sign of liberation to the extent that liberation its self is not noticed even as it might present its self.

With expectations it is to do with remaining open to an unexpected shift in perspecive and one that is subtle, quite possibly without any fireworks or preconceived outcomes but which nonetheless 'changes' everything wiout changing anything. We will certainly look at some of your hopes as we go along.
Just want to tell you again how happy I am to have finally registerd….and have you as my guide.
My heart is dancing wiyh joy and gratefulness…
Haven’t figured how to put text in the pink box yet…and will try to send this with the..”quick reply” button to see
Funny…to notice the thought/feeling…”ah…youre such a case…don’t be sure Jon will assist you…he might change his mind.”
Sorry, but trust …in human beings…I have very little
Don't worry, I am asolutely delighted to help.

You probably know what I'm going to say now but there are some ground rules I'd like you to read and agree to please?

What we will do here is simply have a conversation, a chat, as between friends if you like? All our focus and investigations will have one purpose, for you to make the realisation that there in no 'self', no 'I' anywhere and that there never has been, nor will be.

I will tend to ask various questions and set you some exercises, but nobody will be judging you. You can't get this wrong.

This process is a guided inquiry where specific areas can be examined. I am not a teacher. This is YOUR inquiry. I will not be giving you new ideas and beliefs; only assisting you in examining and questioning the ones that you already have.

Before we continue, a few formalities.

If you haven't already seen it, there is introductory info here, the disclaimer and a short video too.
http://www.liberationunleashed.com/

Please read and agree to the following:
1. Post at least once a day, if you cannot post, or need more time, let me know.
2. Be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.
3. Answer only from direct experience (felt senses and observed thoughts). Longwinded
analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress.
4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies and such for the remainder of this investigation.
Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily and
essential meditation practice, it is fine to continue that.
5. Understand that I will be guiding you, rather than teaching you, and the more you put into this process the more you will get out of it.

Also, please let me know if the 'quote' function remains illusive for you (you need to switch on 'Full edior' below and then 'quote' becomes available above).

And this forum has a nasty habit of logging you out after some time without you knowing. Then, when you 'Submit' your post it can be lost. It happens to everyone once I'm afraid. It is best to 'copy' your text into computer memory before submitting it. That way if it does vanish you can just log in again and paste the text into a new window.


Much love,

Jon.

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premji
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Re: please guide me

Postby premji » Wed May 13, 2015 6:49 am

Hi Jon
Ive read the disclaimer,and fully agree
and have watched all the videos
I am ready!
with a little bit of nerves spinning and excitement
love prem

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premji
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Re: please guide me

Postby premji » Wed May 13, 2015 7:24 am

Hello Jon..i got the quote butten..so i try
Also, please let me know if the 'quote' function remains illusive for you (you need to switch on 'Full edior' below and then 'quote' becomes available above).
Please read and agree to the following:
yes,
it works
yes i fully agree thank you so much
love prem

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JonathanR
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Re: please guide me

Postby JonathanR » Wed May 13, 2015 8:48 am

Ok Prem , thank you for agreeing. Let's get started.

Please tell me what it is that you think 'you' are.


Love

Jon

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premji
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Re: please guide me

Postby premji » Wed May 13, 2015 10:09 am

Hi Jon,
Please tell me what it is that you think 'you' are.
I think I am awareness…or that wich is aware or knows perception/experience,
However,often that seems to be together with thoughts about the experience ,wich gives rise to a “me”that thinks it knows “my” experience……and so it continues that my knowing iam awareness is only intellectual …an idea only….but not really my experience…
Wow just writing this…who is thinking ,and who wants to know?
Love prem

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premji
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Re: please guide me

Postby premji » Wed May 13, 2015 10:28 am

Hi again
Please tell me what it is that you think 'you' are.
Sorry
Maybe that was not an honest answer….and indeed intellectual only…
I don’t think iam the body…but something ,in fact that has to be a person that has the power to direct his live…to do inquiry..and to find truth after all…if grace allows it

love prem

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premji
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Re: please guide me

Postby premji » Wed May 13, 2015 11:18 am

Dear Jon
,I am sorry for all these little post…I see I have to take more time before I answer…maybe in a similar way(fast answer).. the story of a “me”gets its life

…I start seeing how confused this mind is…it looks like it has continuity…but looking at it,it actually doesn’t…but it seems it has..

I being an idea….but with so much prove of it excistence…I smell a rat,but cant find it…
I also want always to see things a certain way…like ,iam awareness…and then I try to remember how that looks or feels like ,from a glimpse I had before…wich of course never last…and i then inquire again,where upon at times there is a new glimpse….wich brings confusion..wich glimpse is real ,or more real (it is a growing no?getting clearer )…..Are they at all real ?... Am I talking to myself….thats not what free people do , is it.
Omg…
Sorry about my bla bla..i will sit with it all ,although there is this rush to get it….but it goes nowhere,just turning in circkles….
ok
Much love prem

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JonathanR
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Re: please guide me

Postby JonathanR » Wed May 13, 2015 5:20 pm

Hello Prem,

It's good that you are really engaged with this inquiry. I'll take things one at a time. Your first answer is a perfectly good place to start.
I think I am awareness…or that which is aware or knows perception/experience,
However,often that seems to be together with thoughts about the experience ,which gives rise to a “me”that thinks it knows “my” experience……
Yes. This is exactly how it seems, isn't it? There appears to be two things here. A quality of noticing immediate experience and as you say, thoughts that appear.

Thoughts are noticed but can thoughts think?

Do 'you' think thoughts or do thoughts think 'you'?

Do you 'create' thoughts or do they seem to just happen?



Love,

Jon

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premji
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Re: please guide me

Postby premji » Wed May 13, 2015 6:43 pm

Dear Jon,
Thoughts are noticed but can thoughts think?
thoughts and thinking are 2 labels for the same thing...thoughts do not think(label 3)
Do 'you' think thoughts or do thoughts think 'you'?
thoughts think me...they are the source of me
Do you 'create' thoughts or do they seem to just happen?
just happen

just before logging on i wrote the following

Never has this question haunted me like this…I cant close an eye to sleep..
I ubderstand intelectiualy….what does that mean? ..are there other ways of understanding....unintelectiualy?
And what is understanding anyway ? everything sounds so empty , no meaning at all,,,,and then does anything mean something…I guess I don’t know what I tam…to say iam awareness is not much different then to say I am a person…both concepts…..I remember as a child I use to say I am not , I do not ecist…but that got hammered out by the adults who said in order to say that, you do have to exist…witch makes some sense
In daily life when I say I , I refer to the story of prem , wich is completely made of thoughts , wich is quite unreal if i don’t think about it….and very different when for example you think about it….its frustrating I just cant wrap my mind around it….i feel lost in a conceptual jungle ….i feel..now I start questioning everything… another meaningless word…..ok I am..that sounds pretty good , although here in indonesia the verb” to be” doesn’t exist ,
Ok” I”…a word that refers to other words….thats the best I can come up with.as actually I don’t know …pls tell me if I go way off…if this is philosofising ar analizing(am quite a hermit,just talk to my rabbits,and they don’t say much back)
Well I leave it to this…try my bed again
Thank you Jon
With love

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JonathanR
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Re: please guide me

Postby JonathanR » Wed May 13, 2015 10:01 pm

Hi Prem,

Do you 'create' thoughts or do they seem to just happen?

just happen
Alright. Let's look at this closely. Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing? Including the thought 'I'?

Does the thought 'I' or any thought ever cause the subject of thought to 'exist' as a 'real separate entity'?

Love,

Jon

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premji
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Re: please guide me

Postby premji » Thu May 14, 2015 12:56 am

Hi Jon,
I could answer now ,but decide to really look and sit with it..
I started to do transedental meditation when i was 14 yrs ....aso ,i see that a spiritual conditioning is more a curse then a blessing.
Love prem


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