hoping that now is here - can someone guide me please?

[kgreenbank]

Hello

It feels like there is a readiness now. I am nervous and excited.

I have been gradually making my way here for years. I had a sense of the mystical, of the transcendent, of there being something 'other' as a child. I was obsessed by the fact that everyone was an 'I' - how could that be true? What did it mean?

I became an alcoholic as an adult. There was a lot of personal pain to be anaesthsetised at that time. I got sober in 2008 through a 12 step programme which pointed the way to a lot of Truth: that getting in my own way was the cause of a lot of personal unhappiness and that by letting go and letting a higher power run the show made life easier. It did. although there was (and still is) a strong sense of ME. This programme was somehow not enough, and I started shamanic healing work using entheogens. This has been extraordinarily effective at processing childhood trauma and knocking addiction on its head, and as an unexpected byproduct there have been a couple of experiences of no self. Total absence of Kate. Gone. Just being, unity, love, simplicity. Like the Buddhist chant "gate, gate, paragate, parasamgate - gone, gone, completely gone, everyone completely gone". I returned after each, and read a lot to try to explain what had happened. I discovered Advaita, read a lot around non-duality, binge-watched Adyashanti and Mooji on youtube. Picked up I AM THAT by Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj and wept with recognition. I found this website about 4 years ago but didn't bookmark it and lost it. It scared me at the time anyway. I've met Tony Parsons and Richard Sylvester in London. I know a handful of other people for whom liberation has happened. I know it conceptually, and experientially. And yet it eludes me - the belief in a separate me is there still, in the way, owning the experiences. I am guilty of sartori chasing for sure.

Tony Parsons says there is nothing that can be done to bring this about. This drove me mad for a while, got lost in mental spirals. And then a series of coincidences in the last week brought me here. Found you again. The fear I had about 'losing' something, about not being able to work or care for my family or function as no-self has, pretty much, gone. My heart races when I focus on this. I have read loads of the posts on here. I am already looking, or trying to. There was a moment a few days ago just as I was falling asleep when when suddenly none of my experience or thoughts 'stuck' to anything - there was emptiness, and things happening, not mine, nothing to attach to. I woke up back here. That's ok. But there is impatience. Come ON! I don't think I can do it alone. I would be so grateful for a guide.

Much love to all who read this. Kate

[kvotski]

Hello Kate,

I can guide you.

Have you read our agreement section and do you agree to our methods?

Please confirm then we can begin.

And welcome.

[kgreenbank]

Hello Sunil. Wow. This is real. Thank you for replying so quickly.

Yes I have read everything and yes I agree. Let's go.

Kate

[kvotski]

Excellent, Kate.

Two of the rules are most important for progress, daily contact and let's leave all other teachings aside for the moment although I too am a fan of most of your interests like Mooji and Nisargdatta.

Let's spend some time on expectations. What do you expect to get out of this? One line intrigued me on your intro; "I am guilty of satori chasing". What is this satori going to look like in direct experience? Who is going to experience this? Would it be something that lasts forever or would it come and go? Ditto for other expectations you may have.

We are not going to play who done it. We are going to establish once and for all that there is no I, me or self. Keep that in mind when you think about the answers.

Thank you, thank you, thank you as Mooji likes to say.

[kgreenbank]

Hello.

Prior no-self experiences (apart from the last) have been ecstatic, accompanied by complete alteration of perception: dissolution of all boundaries, in all senses. All consuming unconditional love. No Kate in any way shape or form. Aside from the last point I will put aside those experiences for the purposes of this enquiry, as they arose from an altered state of consciousness. I have been guilty of chasing them again, especially the love = home sensation. Unparalleled bliss; hence sartori chasing. Wanting the HIGH, not what is real. I hope that is over.

Anyway, let's leave that, it will not help here. What do I expect now? For things to be seen as they really are. Last fleeting non self experience was of utter simplicity and ease. Smoothness. Nothing sticky. Emptiness at the centre. Everything still there, ordinary and quite unremarkable, but no person owning it. 'This is it'. Easy. Truth. Should I put that experience down too? I don't want to colour this process with false expectations. I am sincere. I want to know the Truth. I want freedom from the burden of self.

I can't know how this will change my life. I trust that it will be ok otherwise I would not do this. I don't expect rainbows and unicorns. I have children - that responsibility held me back for a while with this.

Will it last forever. I want it to. I want the false self to be seen through in a way that can not be unseen.

A question: it's ok for me to carry on 'doing my stuff' through this enquiry? I have family, work etc. I'll stay away from other spiritual stuff. I'll even give up facebook (omg that is dedication)... But I'm assuming I don't have to go into retreat or take time off work etc?

So grateful for your help. K

[kgreenbank]

something else has come up. There is a fantasy about telling people it has happened, after the event. Pride in this. Wanting to feel a sense of achievement, of specialness, and to be recognised and admired for that. Maybe even be able to become a guide, a teacher of this. Thought I should fess up to this. Ugh. :-)

[kvotski]

Awesome, Kate.

No need to give up family or Facebook. LU lives on Facebook. It's only other teachings that may interfere.

Nothing extraordinary about your expectations but we will et them aside for now as well.

Now, let's focus on the I or me or self. The one that wants to satori again. And wants to tell people about your enlightenment, achievements and awakening, whatever you may call it.

Do this simple experiment. Find a quiet corner, close your eyes, think of yourself and use your index finger to point where you might be. Then open your eyes and see what is being pointed to. Did you find self?

Do this again and see if the position shifts. Again what do you find there?

[kvotski]

Oh by the way, it looks like you are in Europe somewhere. I am in canada so we have to keep that in mind when posting. You must be fast asleep now. Chat tomorrow.

[kvotski]

Ignore that last message, you seem to be on the same date line. My error.

[kgreenbank]

it's late here (2330) so I will try now and again tomorrow if you think that's a good idea. At first I can not even find the self eyes closed, never mind point at it. what comes up is a series of images, memories, thoughts about how I might appear physically to another person. none stick - attention slides off each one and then tries to fix, unsuccessfully, on the next. the self seems slippery, elusive, sneaky, unreal. i can not get hold of it. so there is nothing to even point at. who is looking for it - isn't that the I? it doesn't make sense.

now it has settled into a sense of something behind the eyes. the pointing is confusing. how can I 'reverse see', backwards into my head?

this time the sense of me is located in the chest area, in the heartspace. pointing brings up a feeling of being ridiculous - obviously that is just the chest. not me. nothing to see there.

there is nothing tangible that has been seen from this. but I'm still here :)

K

[kgreenbank]

I'm in the UK. I like that you are so far away and yet this is happening. Very cool. Yes, chat tomorrow. Thank you.

[kvotski]

At first I can not even find the self eyes closed, never mind point at it. what comes up is a series of images, memories, thoughts about how I might appear physically to another person. none stick - attention slides off each one and then tries to fix, unsuccessfully, on the next. the self seems slippery, elusive, sneaky, unreal. i can not get hold of it. so there is nothing to even point at. who is looking for it - isn't that the I? it doesn't make sense.

You find nothing, just some concepts. Remember we only do direct experience here. If we can't directly experience something, it can't be there. So look harder

Yes, who is looking for it? Is it the I? Which I? The slippery elusive unfindable one? Or is there another I that you have been hiding somehow.

now it has settled into a sense of something behind the eyes. the pointing is confusing. how can I 'reverse see', backwards into my head?

this time the sense of me is located in the chest area, in the heartspace. pointing brings up a feeling of being ridiculous - obviously that is just the chest. not me. nothing to see there.

there is nothing tangible that has been seen from this. but I'm still here :)

K

Good looking. Nothing there. But you are still here? Are you? Or are you confusing it with your chest, your eyes and your body? Are you the body or some of its parts?

[kgreenbank]

Remember we only do direct experience here. If we can't directly experience something, it can't be there.

Hop this quote function works for me. Let's see.

That has stopped me in my tracks. If we can't directly experience something, it can't be there. Obviously. OBVIOUSLY! Like ghosts. I have no experience of ghosts, or past life experiences, or alien visitations. I do not trust other people's reports of them. I would need to directly experience them to believe they were real. Simple. When my children have been scared of bumps in the night, I have SHOWN then there is nothing there. This is so obvious.

So, in experience now, right now, there is:

Hearing birdsong and children playing in the garden, kitchen clock ticking: REAL
Pressure of weight of body on chair, pads of feet on the ground: REAL
Sensation of clothes brushing skin; REAL
Feeling of light breeze against skin on legs: REAL
Seeing objects in kitchen, cup of coffee, table, laptop, fruitbowl, cats eating their food, garden outside: REAL
Movement of hands, typing happening, words being written: REAL
Taste of coffee (made with hazelnut milk - nice!) : REAL
Thoughts occurring, some labeling these sense experiences, just after they are experienced it seems. Some randomly popping up about unrelated stuff: REAL
Feeling in my solar plexus, slight nervousness: REAL

That's more or less it. There is no DIRECT EXPERIENCE of a real, separate me. Just an assumption that OF COURSE there must be one. Trying the pointing exercise again

Pointing at my face. Am I my face. No.
Thoughts, memories, can't point at those.

Feeling of nervousness rising in the chest. Nearly feels like fear. Thoughts arising suggesting this should stop now.

Mind going into analysis mode now "of course you can't experience yourself that's because.... blah blah"

I have a busy day with family today. I will continue looking for the self and observing direct experience throughout the day, and report back later.

K

[kvotski]

That's more or less it. There is no DIRECT EXPERIENCE of a real, separate me. Just an assumption that OF COURSE there must be one. Trying the pointing exercise again

Pointing at my face. Am I my face. No.
Thoughts, memories, can't point at those.

Feeling of nervousness rising in the chest. Nearly feels like fear. Thoughts arising suggesting this should stop now.

Mind going into analysis mode now "of course you can't experience yourself that's because.... blah blah"

K

Stopping in the tracks is good. Fear is also good as something is being threatened. What is being threatened? Find out?

Don't sweep blah, blah....under the carpet. Mind is extremely clever, it will hide its real belief in corners, in words like blah blah or I will get to that later...

I need the answers to all questions. Like are you the body? This is the biggest belief to shake off.

Think of the computer.

Is there such a thing as a computer or a school, university, a country in direct experience?


Very good work, Kate.

[kvotski]

And let me emphasize, if you can't find it, no matter what you use to look, the electron microscope, the Hubble telescope, the best surgeon, you must acquiesce to logic and conclude that it ain't there.