Looking for help :)

[piiineapple]

Hello, my name's Gem.
To explain why i'm here: I've been deepening into awareness recently, and got to a point where I 'saw' the self, as phenomena, rather than as what I am, and saw that it all arises in awareness in the same way as all phenomena does. Not sure what to do with it now, and i've been sort of floating along ever since in a strange distracted, un-centred sort of 'meh' state, and feeling very self-y. I'm hoping there's someone who could help me deepen and clarify what's going on, i'm feeling a bit lost at sea at the moment!
Thank you for your time

[QuantSelfLaFont]

Hi Gem, my name is Paul. I would be happy to help if that is agreeable to you. Just reply back with "OK" if you'd like to get started.

[piiineapple]

OK

[QuantSelfLaFont]

To begin I will share some guidelines to make the process clearer for you. Please read them and respond back to confirm you are comfortable with them.

1. This is your journey. I am a Guide. I am not a teacher, guru or therapist. We walk together and I keep pointing the way. You make the journey. My pointing mostly will take the form of questions that I will ask and you will answer.
2. I am in the Mountain Time Zone in the US (GMT-7). I will read your posts in the morning my time, consider them, then pose the questions and make comments once per day. I would like to do this in a way you will have time to consider the questions before you respond. Please confirm back your timezone so we can coordinate this well.
3. Confirm you will be able to post once per day. When posting, you are committed to responding from direct experience (felt senses and observed thoughts). You understand that longwinded analytical or philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress.
4. You commit to responding to questions with utmost honesty.
5. You are comfortable setting aside all other teachings, philosophies and “isms” for the remainder of this investigation. This means you will put all your effort and attention into seeing reality as it is here in this investigation. If you have a daily and essential meditation practice, it is fine to continue that.
6. Please read our disclaimer and have a look at the introductory materials: http://www.liberationunleashed.com/

The quote function helps smooth of the communication process. Here are instructions for how to do this: http://liberationunleashed.com/nation/v ... ?f=4&t=660 Try it by “quoting” the items 1 through 6 back to me and confirming you are comfortable with the guidelines.

As a small administrative tip, on the bottom of the page in the blue navigation bar you you will see a link that says “Subcribe Topic” just to the right of where it says “Board Index.” If you click that you will get an email when I post a response for you. I enable it and find it helpful.

I look forward to working with you.

[piiineapple]

This all sounds great, thank you. I've read the disclaimer and introductory information.
I'm travelling at the moment, so my time zone will be changing a bit, but probably easiest to say that it's UK time zone and then if it changes dramatically I could let you know?

Thank you so much for your time :)

[piiineapple]

1. This is your journey. I am a Guide. I am not a teacher, guru or therapist. We walk together and I keep pointing the way. You make the journey. My pointing mostly will take the form of questions that I will ask and you will answer.
2. I am in the Mountain Time Zone in the US (GMT-7). I will read your posts in the morning my time, consider them, then pose the questions and make comments once per day. I would like to do this in a way you will have time to consider the questions before you respond. Please confirm back your timezone so we can coordinate this well.
3. Confirm you will be able to post once per day. When posting, you are committed to responding from direct experience (felt senses and observed thoughts). You understand that longwinded analytical or philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress.
4. You commit to responding to questions with utmost honesty.
5. You are comfortable setting aside all other teachings, philosophies and “isms” for the remainder of this investigation. This means you will put all your effort and attention into seeing reality as it is here in this investigation. If you have a daily and essential meditation practice, it is fine to continue that.
6. Please read our disclaimer and have a look at the introductory materials: http://www.liberationunleashed.com/

The quote function helps smooth of the communication process. Here are instructions for how to do this: http://liberationunleashed.com/nation/v ... ?f=4&t=660 Try it by “quoting” the items 1 through 6 back to me and confirming you are comfortable with the guidelines.

Hope that all works, and the guidelines sound great. Thank you so much, I'm really grateful and relieved to be here with you!

[QuantSelfLaFont]

easiest to say that it's UK time zone

Ok great. We are roughly 7 hours in difference that will make a good tempo.

Exercise: Tell me the history of your seeking. What you got involved in, how it worked out, what you though was supposed to be the outcome. Write as little or as much as you like.

[piiineapple]

Great :D

Since I was young i've been asking myself 'what's going on?', trying to understand the nature of reality and all that. I then realised if I'm suspicious of the world then I should be suspicious of myself. So I went on a goenka retreat, which I hated and really struggled with, and then from there was reading and reading trying to get at what I was searching for. Took a course that introduced me to a number of techniques, and was able to really explore awareness a bit, for the first time i saw that the 'search' wasn't some sort of quest where i would sit on a lotus plant and a beam of light would shine on me, but rather seemed to be a noticing and removal/objectification of the layers and filters through which I experience. I saw that there is no me in awareness, that there's no anything in awareness! But this hasn't really changed anything for me other than through being able to remind myself of it, and perhaps have more equanimity, so I think there's a long way to go with that aspect. This is where I'm at now..

The question 'what's going on' remains, and I'm trying to explore whether this is also a limiting belief that is shaping and determining my view of things and experience- am I not seeing things as they are because I believe there to be a fundamental or ultimate truth beyond what is going on etc etc

The outcome as i see it at the moment is not too clear to me. In a long winded way, I think I see the goal as being able to stick with awareness and constantly reaffirming through experience that the phenomena of the world simply arise in it but aren't the solid-real-world-things I take them to be, and to thus understand the nature of the world, the self, beyond what it seems to be.

[QuantSelfLaFont]

OK, since my first post this morning was pretty standard I'll set you up for the morning.

..I should be suspicious of myself.

Good start point. We'll dig into this.

I saw that there is no me in awareness

Question1: Who saw there was no "Gem" in awareness? Not a trick question, just give a few lines as to what was arising there.

The question 'what's going on' remains, and I'm trying to explore whether this is also a limiting belief that is shaping and determining my view of things and experience- am I not seeing things as they are because I believe there to be a fundamental or ultimate truth beyond what is going on etc etc

OK, I hear you. Let's walk together and explore it.

..thus understand the nature of the world, the self, beyond what it seems to be.

Question: What do you expect will happen when you so understand? Describe that for me.

Good start! Thanks for taking the time to write out your background.

[piiineapple]

Question1: Who saw there was no "Gem" in awareness? Not a trick question, just give a few lines as to what was arising there.

At the time it felt that there was a clear space of present knowing, just empty space. I think it was almost quite a visual thing though, like if i had my eyes open I could see and experience the empty space which had the quality of knowing or being present, and was the space in which thoughts/feelings/object sensations arose and left (ie Gem + world). With eyes shut it was more difficult to discern, and thoughts/feelings seemed more identified with.

Question: What do you expect will happen when you so understand? Describe that for me.

I think I'll feel less like I'm missing out on a cosmic joke/prank/mystery. At the moment everything is unexplained, why is there this rather than not, why like this rather than another way, what is this, what's really going on? All these things might start to feel like answerable questions. or at least i might see why they're the wrong question.

[QuantSelfLaFont]

At the time it felt that there was a clear space of present knowing, just empty space.

OK. Thanks for the description. Good reference point.

I think I'll feel less like I'm missing out on a cosmic joke/prank/mystery.

Question: How would you feel if you were never able to get the joke? Talk through that.

Thanks Gem!

[piiineapple]

Question: How would you feel if you were never able to get the joke? Talk through that.

I'd be heartbroken- completely dissatisfied, would feel that everything is pointless, that I'm always missing out on the truth and that nothing had real meaning because I didn't 'get' what is beyond it. I'd feel very hopeless and upset.

[QuantSelfLaFont]

that I'm always missing out on the truth and that nothing had real meaning

Question1: Is this search a search for an answer?


Question2: Who is the "I" that is missing out on the truth?


Thanks, we're off and running! Cheers

[piiineapple]

Question1: Is this search a search for an answer?

I'm not sure. I feel like it's a search for the truth, so in that sense i suppose the truth would be the answer. I feel as though I'm searching for an answer, I'm not sure that I should be though. I've been thinking a lot about that recently, and whether my framing it like this is prohibiting me from seeing anything.

Question2: Who is the "I" that is missing out on the truth?

I'm not sure about this either! I thought that if something like the empty knowing happened (the thing i explained in the last post) then that empty knowing would either just be that, and there would be no questions, or that the empty knowing would know the truth, or be the truth. In fact, it was a very empty knowing- none of these things really applied to it, but that didn't mean the questions of truth or reality or not understanding went away. I can rationalise that that the I that is missing out on the truth is the personal I, simply the thought that something is being missed out on is all that there is to missing out on anything, but actually I don't believe that. I believe that there's something to be known, outside of the personal I. So could it be that there is a drive to know which is beyond thoughts and feelings? Otherwise how could it have been that when I felt I was the empty present knowing (sorry the language used makes it sounds weird), how could it be that the question remained?

Sorry that was a bit of a mouth full! Thanks to you, Paul.

[QuantSelfLaFont]

whether my framing it like this is prohibiting me from seeing anything.

Important insight. Pay attention to this suspicion.

I believe that there's something to be known, outside of the personal I

Question1: What happens to the "I" when this thing is known? How does the "I" change?