Requesting a Guide

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JaneEllen
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Requesting a Guide

Postby JaneEllen » Fri May 01, 2015 1:04 pm

I need your help. My desire is to finally live life from the spontaneous flow rather than the confines of my conditioned mind. I am tired of thinking all the time. It feels like a loud speaker that doesn't shut off sometimes. Deep down I know this is just my mind and that it is ego but just knowing that just doesn't seem like enough to stop the chatter. When I listen to your videos there is relief, so if i could listen to you all the time I would feel great. This is like having one foot on the road and one in the gutter. up and down , up and down. I feel like i am missing something can you please help me.

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yuvi
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Re: Requesting a Guide

Postby yuvi » Fri May 01, 2015 2:40 pm

hi JaneEllen,

This is Yuvaraj (call me Yuvi) from India. I can help you in your pursuit to understand the nature of 'self'. Please let me know if you are okay with me being your guide, and then we shall begin.

Take care.
YOU CANNOT KNOW YOURSELF. YOU CAN ONLY BE YOURSELF.

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JaneEllen
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Re: Requesting a Guide

Postby JaneEllen » Sat May 02, 2015 2:07 am

I am so thankful you wish to be my guide ! Am looking forward to all that this will bring.

Jane

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yuvi
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Re: Requesting a Guide

Postby yuvi » Sat May 02, 2015 2:59 am

My pleasure, Jane..

Before we begin, there are few guidelines in this forum. Kindly respond to confirm:

1. You agree to post at least once a day. If busy, atleast reply ‘’busy today” and we can understand
2. In general, the guide will ask the questions for you to respond to
3. Responses require your utmost honesty
4. Responses are best from direct experience (felt senses and observed thoughts). Longwinded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress.
5. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies and such for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily and essential meditation practice, it is fine to continue that. Please read the disclaimer here http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/
6. Please learn to use the quote function; instructions are located in the link below this line:
http://liberationunleashed.com/nation/v ... ?f=4&t=660
7. Our discussion thread is/will be available in public domain, so avoid personal information
8. Please click the 'subscribe topic' link at the very bottom of the page so you get an email whenever a reply comes in.
YOU CANNOT KNOW YOURSELF. YOU CAN ONLY BE YOURSELF.

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JaneEllen
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Re: Requesting a Guide

Postby JaneEllen » Sat May 02, 2015 10:57 am

I read all of the instructions, disclaimer and understand it fully and do agree to the terms and conditions. One question, can I use the quick reply button to answer back to you or the quote button each time?

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yuvi
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Re: Requesting a Guide

Postby yuvi » Sat May 02, 2015 12:17 pm

You will have to use the quote function, Jane. Our discussions will mostly have multiple questions and responses, so it will be easy if you use quote function to highlight the question to which you are answering. I will be doing the same. This will help others who are following our discussion. If it is just one question to which you are replying, you can use quick reply. Use your judgement.

We will be working in different timezones, so we can expect some delays in responding to each other. Nevertheless, I will respond within 24 hrs (or will update you if I am busy) and expect the same from you.

There is no deadline or ‘no of dialogues per seeing’ in this process. For some it occurs immediately, and for some it takes time. Frustration is a possibility when you look deep into resistance. Don’t falter during the process and let’s work together however long it takes..

Also, as an exercise to prime you in introspection, I suggest you do this practice available in the below link:
https://soundcloud.com/samharrisorg/min ... ditation-9

This exercise has nothing to do with what we are doing here, but primes you well to inquiry process. You can do this in parallel, or answer my questions after first doing this practice. Your answers must be absolutely honest for it helps me see where we need to work.

Here is my first question to you:

What are your expectations for liberation? How will this feel? How will this change you?
YOU CANNOT KNOW YOURSELF. YOU CAN ONLY BE YOURSELF.

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JaneEllen
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Re: Requesting a Guide

Postby JaneEllen » Sun May 03, 2015 3:47 am

hat are your expectations for liberation? How will this feel? How will this change you?[/b][/quote]
I expect to be liberated from the illusion of the stories that run through my mind. I have read alot of
inspirational books and listened to a lot of inspirational teachers on the internet and have observed
one thing they have that I haven't been able to experience very much of the time and that is to live in the
moment. My mind keeps me either in the past or in the future or on problems or about whoever I
have met during the day that has a problem. I don't know how this will make me feel. More alive I
suppose and I really don't know if I will change any from what I am but if I do change that is ok.

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yuvi
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Re: Requesting a Guide

Postby yuvi » Sun May 03, 2015 1:28 pm

Thank you for sharing, Jane. Please check on the quote function; looks like you deleted the first few letters and therefore it didn’t work in your previous post.
I expect to be liberated from the illusion of the stories that run through my mind.
We will get into this more in detail soon.
I have read a lot of inspirational books and listened to a lot of inspirational teachers on the internet and have observed one thing they have that I haven't been able to experience very much of the time and that is to live in the moment.
Looks like you already have gained enough knowledge on ‘how’ the outcome should be based on your perception of others. Mind has decided how you should feel when this nature of self is seen. So any other experience that does not fit into these criteria will be rejected—i.e., there is no acceptance of whatever that is appearing in the present moment. Not to worry; this mechanism is what we are going to first address. When we embark on this journey together, I want you to look everything with fresh eyes. Like a child. All your knowledge about ‘they have this experience and I should get that’ is nothing but mind’s trick to look over the shoulder of the present moment. Can we look at things from scratch? Don’t read spiritual books or listen to teachings for now. Just drop the beliefs you had about liberation. Begin fresh. Like beginning to walk in a dark room without any idea what lies ahead. It is the ideas about ‘how it should or will be’ that becomes a real impediment in seeing what it is.
My mind keeps me either in the past or in the future or on problems or about whoever I have met during the day that has a problem
When you see through the illusion of self, it will not stop you from thinking about past or future. It will not stop thoughts from appearing. It won’t innoculate you against day-to-day problems. You will certainly see everything in a new way and able to regulate life, but the years of conditioning will not drop instantly. The habit patterns will take time to dissolve, sometimes not. Before seeing that self is an illusion, you believed in something that wasn’t there. After seeing, you will know that it wasn’t there. But nothing changes. To use an analogy, imagine that you are in a theater watching a movie. Earlier you thought that all the characters were real and the stage is a reality with you being a part of it. After seeing self-illusion, you WILL still be in the theater, but know for certain that these characters are not real, and so does the stage. The movie continues to go on and you will continue to remain a part of it.
More alive I suppose and I really don't know if I will change any from what I am but if I do change that is ok.
There will certainly be changes in the way you look at life, and the whole deception of self story. After seeing the self illusion, one still need to work through the conditionings (which becomes easier) and habit patterns.

From what I said above, do you have any further expectations?
I need to clarify all your expectations before we begin. Subtle wanting, expectations and desires from this dialogue actually serve as obstacles. Do the mindfulness practice I gave you and let me know if there are any other expectations.
YOU CANNOT KNOW YOURSELF. YOU CAN ONLY BE YOURSELF.

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JaneEllen
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Re: Requesting a Guide

Postby JaneEllen » Mon May 04, 2015 3:27 pm

From what I said above, do you have any further expectations?
I need to clarify all your expectations before we begin. Subtle wanting, expectations and desires from this dialogue actually serve as obstacles. Do the mindfulness practice I gave you and let me know if there are any other expectations.[/quote]

I would like to try not to control life so much and / or the outcomje of situations but live life in a flow. I believe I will still have to make decisions about things and do things but I would like life to present itself to me and not be so anxious and uptight about what is going to happen to me. I would like to be able to just relax and just trust and see what happens. I guess Yuvi I know what I don't want and keep trying to keep things from happening.

I would like to tell you this : you said to me "so any other experience that does not fit into these criteria will be rejected...there is no acceptance of whatever that is appearing in the present moment." I had to read that over and over but when I finally got it , it made me giggle. I see that if it doesn't fit into what my expectation is I am rejecting it. right?

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yuvi
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Re: Requesting a Guide

Postby yuvi » Tue May 05, 2015 2:43 am

Jane- I guess you missed my request to relook into using quote function
I suggest you first draft your responses on a word document along with my questions. Click ‘post Reply’ button on lower left corner of my response. Then copy your response in the text field, select the text you want to quote and click on ‘quote’ button on top (above field editor). Always ‘preview’ your response before hitting submit.
I would like life to present itself to me and not be so anxious and uptight about what is going to happen to me.
Life already presents itself to you every moment. It is only the expectations about how life will/should be that creates resistance to NOW. Resistance is suffering.
I would like to be able to just relax and just trust and see what happens. I guess Yuvi I know what I don't want and keep trying to keep things from happening.

This is how thoughts work. We will address this during the course of our discussion.
I see that if it doesn't fit into what my expectation is I am rejecting it. right?
I am not here to give you convincing replies or answers that you want to hear. You are going to find out yourself.

I now get what your expectations are. From now on, I want your responses to come from DE (Direct Experience). Meaning:
1. You should not think how you felt (means recollecting memory) and tell me
2. Do not explain me why you felt this way, how it was, etc. and layer it with past experiences
3. No adding your knowledge (that you gained from teachings or books) to elaborate on your experience.

DE is inquiring the pointers (the direct questions I ask you to enquire) and answering what is experienced right now via sight, smell, taste and other sensations. E.g. You can reply like: I experienced thoughts with images, then sensations of this, and I was feeling a sense of contraction, etc.

Do the priming exercise I gave you. Inquire this pointer:
What are expectations, and how are they experienced in the NOW?
YOU CANNOT KNOW YOURSELF. YOU CAN ONLY BE YOURSELF.

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JaneEllen
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Re: Requesting a Guide

Postby JaneEllen » Tue May 05, 2015 4:10 pm

Do the priming exercise I gave you. Inquire this pointer:
What are expectations, and how are they experienced in the NOW?
If I am living a dream I would like to live my own dream.

Feels fearful , like I would fail.

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yuvi
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Re: Requesting a Guide

Postby yuvi » Wed May 06, 2015 2:37 am

No Jane. My question is: How are 'expectations' experienced? Is it right to say, every expectation is a thought arising in the present moment, bit of language or image?
YOU CANNOT KNOW YOURSELF. YOU CAN ONLY BE YOURSELF.

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JaneEllen
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Re: Requesting a Guide

Postby JaneEllen » Wed May 06, 2015 10:20 am

No Jane. My question is: How are 'expectations' experienced? Is it right to say, every expectation is a thought arising in the present moment, bit of language or image?
No Yuvi. there is also the feeling of an itch in my ear, hearing the computer running, seeing the brightness of the computer screen, and feeling the touch of the keys as I am typing this.

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yuvi
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Re: Requesting a Guide

Postby yuvi » Wed May 06, 2015 3:08 pm

Well, do the following exercise:

Close your eyes and take few deep breaths. Observe the beginning of inhalation and observe it until it exhales. Do this 2-3 times so your mind settles a bit.

What are expectations? When you tell me 'i want to be this, feel this,' etc., from where do you get that? If you watch closely, there is a thought that arises (image, language) that narrates how and what the life should be (just an example). When you 'think' that thought - i.e. cling to the thought like it talks to you - then you write to me that this and that are your expectations. I want you to carefully explore here: From where do you get these expectations that you then write to me? How are those expectations experienced?
YOU CANNOT KNOW YOURSELF. YOU CAN ONLY BE YOURSELF.

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JaneEllen
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Re: Requesting a Guide

Postby JaneEllen » Thu May 07, 2015 9:47 am

What are expectations?
By definition an expectation is a belief that is centered on the future. A belief is just the same thought I am thinking over and over again until it has formed a belief.
From where do you get these expectations that you then write to me? How are those expectations
experienced?
So lets say an event in life happens and the experience of that is both good and bad. Some good experiences happened and some bad experiences happened and in reflection of the events, a story about it begins to happen and one thought leads to another thought and another and somewhere in those thoughts an opinion or perceived idea forms and now there is an expectation that those same events will reoccur and/or that this is my life and I have to live with it.
So now there is a belief formed as an expectation that whenever a situation arises , that belief is mentally relived, doesn't matter if that is really what is happening or not the belief makes me feel like it is really happening or at least like the belief is true. I imagined the entire belief in my head, based on what I thought was happening.


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