Requesting a guide

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Little Em
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Requesting a guide

Postby Little Em » Mon Apr 27, 2015 4:46 am

After twenty years of seeking including TM, but mostly Buddhism - Vipassna and a sixteen year involvement in Tiratna, came across gate through a fiend in the movement. Was blown away by book and particularly affected by my friend sharing his process. Feel I'm still in a bit if free falls feel that I've' 'accepted' there's no I and feel huge relief to have dropped the manager, feels as though there is a massive amount of energy that 'I'd been using to carry about the dead weight of the self, with all the internal conflict about should now be doing this or that, and wanting things to be different from the way they are has gone. But wonder if I' ve truly seen or are are justliving as is. So would like to go through the process systematically just to be be sure, and no without doubt

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Hannah B-T
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Re: Requesting a guide

Postby Hannah B-T » Mon Apr 27, 2015 6:38 pm

Hi little Em, my name is Hannah. What would you prefer I call you?

I'd be very happy to be your guide and we'll see what happens.
Just some practicalities and guidance on how this process works first off:

What time zone are you in? I'm BST UK time.

It's good to learn how to use the quote function on this forum- any problems do ask. Also best to write long posts in a wordpad etc as the forum can suddenly log you out.

These are my versions of the 'groundrules'-

1- 100% honesty- by this I mean- no censoring, no telling me what you think I want to hear, or repeating what you have heard from somewhere else.

2-That you strive to only report as closely as you can your direct experience when answering my questions. By this i mean what you can find right here and now, through the perception of your senses, not conceptual ideas, speculation or things from teachings you may have read or seen. To aid this i request you hold off reading spiritual books or watching such content online just whilst we are in this dialogue. Continuing core meditation practices, especially less 'cognitive' practices like just sitting/mindfulness of breathing is fine.

3-That we both agree to post daily, unless we let each other know why that is not possible at that time. Momentum is really key for this process.

I'm not here for and would not want to teach you anything, to give you new concepts or beliefs. I cannot give you answers, only point out and guide where and how to look for yourself at the way things are currently viewed and believed to be, and test out if that's how it really is.
Question every single thing i say here against your current experience.

Does that all sound ok? If so let's start...

Just to let you know we have similar spiritual backgrounds with Triratna etc so if you use Buddhist terminology I will understand it, but I will also question it ;)

From your opening post let's start with a few questions, remember i'm not trying to annoy or be picky, I'm simply asking you to tell me what is going on right now discerned clearly from ideas/imagination ABOUT what is going on. If that doesn't make sense, let me know as it's key for this dialogue.
Feel I'm still in a bit if free falls feel that I've' 'accepted' there's no I and feel huge relief to have dropped the manager
What is this 'I' mentioned here that could accept that there is no 'I'? How is that 'i' appearing right now?
Was there every really a 'manager' of life? Describe that manager to me.

'I'd been using to carry about the dead weight of the self'-
You talk about a self here as a physical object that exists and has 'weight'. Is that accurate? Where is this physical self right now, does it have a location?
with all the internal conflict about should now be doing this or that
what does this internal conflict appears as right now? A thought? An emotion? give me an example of this 'internal conflict if it is still happening. Let's examine that more closely.

and no without doubt-
What is the doubt here? Again give me some stuff on that- complete this sentence, really let rip on it, lay out the doubts.

'No-self hasn't truly been seen because....'


Hannah
x
Are there keys in your pocket? Is the sky blue? Is there an 'i, a self?' LOOK! :)

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Little Em
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Re: Requesting a guide

Postby Little Em » Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:35 am

Hi Hannah, Thankyou for agreeing to be my guide. I'm Hannah too, please call me that ( should be easy to remember!) and I'm in uk. Can happily agree to your terms and conditions - only problem might be with daily postings: I live rurally and we're having our broad band worked on at the moment - so almost impossible to connect from home ( except in middle of night!) and with two small children hard to get to Internet cafe's on a regular basis. But can fully see importance of momentum, I am going to examine your questions ones by one and post responses, as I test them against experience. Do you think that's going to work? Thanks again - 'I'm' excited, or excitement is happening

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Hannah B-T
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Re: Requesting a guide

Postby Hannah B-T » Wed Apr 29, 2015 1:43 pm

Hi Hannah,

thanks for the update about the broadband. Just reply when you can at the moment. If you tick 'subscribe topic' at the bottom of the thread, you'll get an email every time I post, which makes it easier to keep up with things.

Yes, look at each question like a scientific hypothesis, and test it to see how it stands up to scrutiny against the raw experience happening right now (of taste, touch smell, sound, sight and the experience of thoughts happening rather than the content/meaning of those thoughts)

If I were to ask, are your keys on the table in the next room? Two approaches could be gone to to reply to this question-
1- to memories, visual images, imagination and logical deduction (thought content) to make a guess if they were or not, which likely would not result in a very convincing conclusion...
Or 2- simply getting up and walking to the next room, and looking on the table. (going to experience)... Job done. :)

We are aiming for the latter.

Glad to here excitement is happening. ;)
Are there keys in your pocket? Is the sky blue? Is there an 'i, a self?' LOOK! :)

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Little Em
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Re: Requesting a guide

Postby Little Em » Tue May 05, 2015 11:14 am

Hi Hannah,
Have been diligently applying myself to your questions, and have some written responses, but with very limited time on line am struggling to find work out how to use quote functions etc. I could email and attach my responses as a word doc. Is this a possibility? If not, no worries, it will just take a bit longer. But I'm definitely keeping up the momentum!

Hannah x

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Re: Requesting a guide

Postby Hannah B-T » Tue May 05, 2015 10:15 pm

Here is the post about the quote function, it's pretty straghforward-
http://liberationunleashed.com/nation/v ... ?f=4&t=660

You can just write responses in word and cut and paste as well.

Wow, It's taking a long time to find out whether the keys are on the table next door isn't it?
Have you tried just getting up and looking for it? ;)

Is there a seperate self in sound? taste? touch? smell? or sight right now?

Looking forward to hearing about that...
Are there keys in your pocket? Is the sky blue? Is there an 'i, a self?' LOOK! :)

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Little Em
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Re: Requesting a guide

Postby Little Em » Sat May 09, 2015 1:17 pm

Hi Hannah,

Thanks for your patience. 'I've' always been a terrible finder of things! Have gone to look, but amazing how hard it seems to be to really focus on this. happy to read and re-read gatecrashers (and find that useful) but actual hard searching - lots od avoidance!

WHAT IS THE I MENTIONED HERE THAT COULD ACCEPTS THERE IS NO I ? HOW IS THE I APPEARING RIGHT NOW?

So a feeling persist of watcher: right here now typing is happening and thinking is happening and then the sense of I seems to come in attach itself to thoughts and actions and then it feels as though the’ I’ is watching. But when I try to focus on the sense of ‘I’ the ‘I’ becomes sensations, sensation in the front side of my head, then I’m just aware of typing and thinking just happening, then I’m aware of sensations of tightness in my shoulders and in my belly, and then in my bladder – so when ‘I’ look ‘I’ can’t be found , but still feels natural to think ‘I look’ rather than ‘looking is happening’ . Thoughts come about some wiser intelligence beyond conscious awareness and there is an identification with the ‘I’ or their being ‘my’ thoughts.



WAS THERE EVER REALLY A MANANGER TO LIFE, DESCRIBE THAT MANAGER TO ME

Can see that there was never really a manager, although I it feels like there is one: feels like ‘I’ will action and then action happens - but through looking seems that feelings, thoughts and actions arise in experience and that – what ‘I’ can best describe as the’ labelling part of mind’ then attributes volition and intention.

YOU TALK ABOUT THE SELF AS IF IT IS A PHYSICAL OBJECT AND HAS A WEIGHT – IS THIS ACCUARTE? WHERE IS THE PHYSICAL SELF RIGHT NOW? DOES IT HAVE A LOCATION?

Was metaphorical. (A stickiness that other people have mentioned in gate crashers etcfeels more accurate) No I can’t find a location, though when ‘I’ try to think of location of self – there is a an awareness of sensations in my temples, then sensations in my belly and sense of tension in my shoulders, general feelings of tension and contractions, and then feelings associated with un-ease / fear arise , when 'I' stay with / flow with the fear it becomes a general awareness of sensations in different part of my body again.

WHAT IS THIS INTERNAL CONFLICT? HOW DOES IT APPEAR RIGHT NOW? A THOUGHT AN EMOTION? GIVE ME AN EXAMPLE OF THIS INTERNAL CONFLICT IF IT STILL HAPPENING

So right now ‘I’m’ in a café and wondering whether to stay and post or to go home and spend some time going over these questions in more peaceful suroundings , then think should spend the time trying to learn quote function etc as suggested. So mostly thoughts, but am also aware of sensations of tightness in belly and shoulders and general tension that moves around the belly. Then think ‘it will flow’ and notice feelings of relaxation, thought comes ‘it will flow as it flows and take some deeper breaths. So there is a sense that if ‘I’ tune into conflict – it will flow and resolve. But can see persistent sense of ‘I tuning in’, can reframe as let life flow, when type this my breathing deepens and feel more sensations of ease, but still a sense of a ‘me’ letting it flow…but I can’t be found – confusion arises, and feel flutters in belly, fear arsising, but now laugh at circularity of it all


WHAT IS THE DOUBT HERE- LET RIP LAY OUT DOUBTS – NO SELF HASN’T TRULY BEEN SEEN BECAUSE

‘I’ still have a sense of I the observer even though ‘I’ can’t find the ‘I’. For the first three weeks after reading gate crashers had much more of a sense of being immersed in the flow of life, now that has lessened, and feels a bit like I’ve stopped being immersed and am observing life through a pane of glass again -observing through the prism of the self, though when 'I' look the 'I' can't be located, so a real sense of disorientation and confusion arises. Trust that this is part of the process - thoughts of having a 'beginners mind' open to new possibilities and understandings arise - though still can't shake sense that there is some owner to this mind ARGGHHH!!

This is just thoughts, I know, but one persistent thought, not sure it is a doubt around a Jungian understanding of a greater self ( or wise psyche, beyond conscious awareness -an interconnected self) just keep coming back to that, not sure where it all fits - but wanted to get it down to let it flow through

Is there a separate self in sound? touch, taste smell: Very useful - no can't find a separate self in any one of the senses

But feel I need more guidance

Thanks again

Hannah

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Hannah B-T
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Re: Requesting a guide

Postby Hannah B-T » Sat May 09, 2015 4:36 pm

Thanks for your comprehensive reply Hannah- Some great looking there- let's dive into this!
So a feeling persist of watcher: right here now typing is happening and thinking is happening and then the sense of I seems to come in attach itself to thoughts and actions and then it feels as though the’ I’ is watching. But when I try to focus on the sense of ‘I’ the ‘I’ becomes sensations, sensation in the front side of my head
Great work here- you went further trying to find the sense of 'i' and found these sensations in the front side of your head. Look at these sensations again carefully and ask-

Are these sensations capable of being a 'watcher', of doing 'watching/observing'? Or are they simply sensations, just like an itch in the left toe or a rumble of hunger in the stomach?

Is it possible these particular sensations are just being mispercieved as more personal? As a separate self?

Where is the boundary been this watcher and what is being watched? Can that be found, making 2 things?

Do the same with these sensations you have talked about as well if possible when they arise (this is not a one time only event, this way of looking is more an 'erosion than an explosion' as I like to say :)
then I’m aware of sensations of tightness in my shoulders and in my belly, and then in my bladder and later- there is a an awareness of sensations in my temples, then sensations in my belly and sense of tension in my shoulders, general feelings of tension and contractions, and then feelings associated with un-ease / fear arise , when 'I' stay with / flow with the fear it becomes a general awareness of sensations in different part of my body again.
but still feels natural to think ‘I look’ rather than ‘looking is happening’ .
thoughts can say anything. Is there any reason that thoughts containing 'I/me/mine' would suddenly stop?
When it was realised Santa didn't really exist, did thoughts never talk about Santa again?
although I it feels like there is one: feels like ‘I’ will action and then action happens
Ok, then lets look closer at that.

Go into the kitchen and get ready to prepare or drink 2 beverages you like.
Stand in front of them looking at the for a couple of minutes.
One of them will eventually get chosen.
But whilst it does look really carefully at what is going on there.

Is there an 'i' there making the choice? Or just thoughts commentating, like a sports commentator saying stuff like- 'I'm going to chose x, yes I chose X.'

This an be looked at loads- every little tiny apparent choice made in the day, from when getting out of bed, typing these words, eating, working...

Can at any point a self, an I outside thoughts talking about one be found making things happen in a certain way?

re the conflict-
So mostly thoughts, but am also aware of sensations of tightness in belly and shoulders and general tension that moves around the belly.
yes, there are thoughts and sensations- isn't it interesting they are described as similar sensations to those noticed around choice and self...
but now laugh at circularity of it all
laughing is always a good sign :)
I’ve stopped being immersed and am observing life through a pane of glass again
So we are now concentrating on this apparent watcher/observer and what this 'pane of glass' is. What is really going on there?
though still can't shake sense that there is some owner to this mind ARGGHHH!!
what is the current experience of 'mind'?
not sure it is a doubt around a Jungian understanding of a greater self ( or wise psyche, beyond conscious awareness -an interconnected self) just keep coming back to that, not sure where it all fits - but wanted to get it down to let it flow through
Does it matter what Jung said? What any teacher said? What I say? Can you see this is why in the groundrules I ask not for second hand reports of any kind- I think maybe you are seeing what a tricky and unfamiliar thing that is to ask ;)
we are not looking in memories, learnt ideas, images for the answers.
Just at this experience going on right here and now.
Is there a separate self in sound? touch, taste smell: Very useful - no can't find a separate self in any one of the senses
YES!
It honestly is as simple as that. Mindboggingly simple....

Is there a unicorn in the room right now?
If an image or words talking about a unicorn appear is that the same thing?

Is there self, Hannah in the room right now?
If an image or words talking about I/me/mine/Hannah appear is that the same thing?
Are there keys in your pocket? Is the sky blue? Is there an 'i, a self?' LOOK! :)

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Little Em
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Re: Requesting a guide

Postby Little Em » Wed May 13, 2015 10:37 am

Hi Hannah,
That was all really useful!
So are the sensations capable of being a watcher? Or are they just simply sensations?
So when 'I' look I just feel that looking is happening and sensations, in my head, in my shoulders - so no - just sensations!

Is it possible that the sensations are perceived as being more personal as a separate self?

Yes, it seems like a habit for mind to label them in that way

Where is the boundary between the watcher and the watched, can that be found and made two things?

This was a powerful exercise - no can find no boundary, again, all that 'I' find is looking happening and awareness of sensations in the body, but cannot find two separate things!

Is there an I making a choice, or is it more like a sports commentator? Again, very interesting to look. 'I'd accepted this as true, had rung true, but actually looking - amazing - actions just flow and the mind provides a running commentary that attributes choice and volition

Can any part of the self, outside of thoughts be found to make action happen in a certain way?
I cannot find it in experience

Concentrating on this watcher observer, and this pane of glass what is going on there?
Again when 'I' look no boundary is discernable, no separations, just looking, and then an awareness of sensations in the body, and commentary from the mind with an idea of a watcher.
(Have noticed that thoughts about watching / pane of glass much more apparent when I feel tired)
What is the current experience of mind?
Right now I'm aware of typing happening and looking happening, and sensations in the shoulder and sensations in arms and commentary from mind about writing, thoughts about a watcher, commentary about what I'm doing,thoughts about what I'm about to do next then awareness of sensations again, etc!

And Really like the idea of erosion rather than explosion
Hannah :)

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Re: Requesting a guide

Postby Hannah B-T » Wed May 13, 2015 9:10 pm

Loving your straightforward responses!-

This one can get tricky and may already be clear but's let's check.

When it's said 'i'm aware' is there a separate I there that is aware?

Pointers to look at this-

Does this awareness have boundaries, borders or is contained in any way?

When you say I am aware, are you going back to saying there is an observer of life separate to life? If so please describe the experience of that to me.


I'm gonna come straight out and ask now:

Has the illusion of a seperate self been seen through?

If so, what is left?
If not, what seems to still need clarifying?

xx
Are there keys in your pocket? Is the sky blue? Is there an 'i, a self?' LOOK! :)

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Little Em
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Re: Requesting a guide

Postby Little Em » Mon May 18, 2015 10:10 pm

Hi Hannah - feel its very close, but not quite there!

When It is said ‘I am aware; is there a separate self that is aware?

Well no sense of separate self can be found but there still seems to be a tendency for mind to label awareness and experience as ‘mine’, but no can find no separate self to be aware, so feels like a habit of mind (and a linguistic convenience)

Does this awareness have any boundaries or borders or is it contained in any way?

No When ‘I’ look this sense of awareness breaks into sensations in the body and sensations of fingers pressing on keys, then awareness is present, then mind comes in and labels it as ‘I’m aware’

When you say ‘I’m aware’ are you going back to saying that there is an observer of life separate to life? If so please describe that observer to me

‘I’ can’t find an observer separate to life – but my answer gives away an automatic reflex to identify something separate that filters experience. Still can’t quite get past an idea of mind, or a’ psyche’ that stores memories and impressions - an organising intelligence that is distinct (because it is based on a unique set of life experiences.) So even though there is a recognition that thinking can’t be controlled, there remains a belief that there is an organising intelligence that is personal and distinct to me, though not controllable . ‘ I’ know this is just thoughts, concepts – but need help with this, as suppose it means that a separate sense of self has not been seen through.

Though increasingly feel able to just go with the flow of things, and seem to move through painful and difficult stuff much quicker. One of my children’s favourite stories is called ‘Oh no George’ - it’s about a dog that doesn’t know what it’s going to do next – and ‘I’ feel like George –‘ I’ don’t know what I’m going to do next and’ it’s fun discovering what it is – and if it’s not so smart that doesn’t feel like such a big deal, because there’s an understanding that it couldn’t be otherwise!

Hannah
xx

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Re: Requesting a guide

Postby Hannah B-T » Mon May 18, 2015 11:14 pm

ok- thanks for your honesty, we'll keep going until we've looked everywhere to full satisfaction :)

But remember- it's always, and i mean always simpler than thoughts say it is...
but there still seems to be a tendency for mind to label awareness and experience as ‘mine’, but no can find no separate self to be aware, so feels like a habit of mind (and a linguistic convenience)
i'm taking mind here as thoughts- so thoughts about i me mine are still coming up...
and? So what?
As I said before- why should they stop?
But you also say here what they are apparently referring to can't be found.
Yup.
That's it.
That's the illusion.
:)
No When ‘I’ look this sense of awareness breaks into sensations in the body and sensations of fingers pressing on keys, then awareness is present, then mind comes in and labels it as ‘I’m aware’
So what is this sense of awareness before it 'breaks up'? I'm not clear yet whats going on there? Is that sense of awareness in any way boundaried or personal?
automatic reflex to identify something separate that filters experience.
For fun, i'm letting you tell a story here- when do you think this reflex began? how did it come into being? How does it arise?
Still can’t quite get past an idea of mind, or a’ psyche’ that stores memories and impressions - an organising intelligence that is distinct (because it is based on a unique set of life experiences.)
When did you first hear ideas about mind, this psyche, a subconcious outside of perception? A self help book? A psychology class at school? From your parents?
Can you see these are second hand ideas picked up along the way?
Right now, take a fresh look, can a psyche be found?
A subconcious?
Any sort of store house of memories and images?


Think of a specific house from memory, say the house you grew up in. Do images appear? Quick!
As they appear and then go again ,look really carefully and see if it's possible, actually to say where that image came from. Did it come from a psyche, a storehouse? A subconcious? Does it disapear into such a thing? Is that the actual experience?
Repeat with as many images, thoughts as needed to be clear on this.
Let me know what's found.

What is a memory in experience? What is it made of? What is there to compare a memory to that could prove if it's accurate or not.
Think of a really vivid memory, say your first kiss.
Then think of the most vivid and exciting first kiss you have seen in a movie.

talk me through exactly what the difference is between those images that appear.Is one fact and the other fiction? What proves that to be the case?
there remains a belief that there is an organising intelligence that is personal and distinct to me, though not controllable
there can be a belief about anything, about ufo's, about angels, about Santa...
The key question i'm asking is:

Is there any evidence for that belief beyond another thought popping up claiming it's true?

If so- show it to me.
Are there keys in your pocket? Is the sky blue? Is there an 'i, a self?' LOOK! :)

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Re: Requesting a guide

Postby Little Em » Tue May 19, 2015 7:29 pm

So what is this sense of awareness before it 'breaks up'? I'm not clear yet whats going on there? Is that sense of awareness in any way boundaried or personal?

Looked again and actually the awareness is always connected to sensations, sounds, thoughts and it does not feel like there is any barrier between sensations and awareness, they are one. And no it does not feel personal or boundaried in any way.

‘automatic reflex to identify something separate that filters experience’.

For fun, i'm letting you tell a story here- when do you think this reflex began? how did it come into being? How does it arise?

This is interesting because ‘I’ have a vivid memory of being around three years old and sitting in the back of our family car and having this thought that ‘I’m the only real person’ and subsequently ‘I’ve’ thought of this as being the beginning of self –awareness – as mind reflecting on the experience of awareness and labeling it as ‘my awareness’ as personal and separate. Hmm interesting!

‘Still can’t quite get past an idea of mind, or a’ psyche’ that stores memories and impressions - an organising intelligence that is distinct (because it is based on a unique set of life experiences’.)

When did you first hear ideas about mind, this psyche, a subconcious outside of perception? A self help book? A psychology class at school? From your parents?

Can you see these are second hand ideas picked up along the way?
Yes I can see that these are ideas I’ve picked up along the way and they are second hand. I did a degree in religious studies and got a thorough immersion in Jungian psychology. Then later I trained as a counsellor – and my training was from a psycho-synthesis perspective – so yes a lot of reinforcement of these beliefs!

Right now, take a fresh look, can a psyche be found?
A subconcious?
Any sort of store house of memories and images?

Think of a specific house from memory, say the house you grew up in. Do images appear? Quick!
As they appear and then go again ,look really carefully and see if it's possible, actually to say where that image came from. Did it come from a psyche, a storehouse? A subconcious? Does it disapear into such a thing? Is that the actual experience?
Repeat with as many images, thoughts as needed to be clear on this.
Let me know what's found.

Yes when I think of the house I grew up in a mental picture arises and there are feelings and physical sensations associated with it: images come and feelings and emotions are experienced as sensations in belly. Not psooble to say where it comes from, no experience of that, just a belief, but no actual experience of a sub-conscious

What is a memory in experience? What is it made of? What is there to compare a memory to that could prove if it's accurate or not.
Think of a really vivid memory, say your first kiss.
Then think of the most vivid and exciting first kiss you have seen in a movie.

talk me through exactly what the difference is between those images that appear.Is one fact and the other fiction? What proves that to be the case?

When I think of a real memory of a first kiss and then a movie kiss, yes it feels the same - mental pictures and emotions of pleasure- made up of sensations in the belly and the heat center. In experience no real distinctions and nothing to prove one is fact and one is fiction.

‘there remains a belief that there is an organising intelligence that is personal and distinct to me, though not controllable’

there can be a belief about anything, about ufo's, about angels, about Santa...
The key question i'm asking is:

Is there any evidence for that belief beyond another thought popping up claiming it's true?

If so- show it to me.

No! Apart from thought popping up no, no evidence!

That was all really helpful, think it just needed to be worked through, as working as a therapist these beliefs have guided me in my work and been a big part of my life. But since getting involved in this process when 'I'm with a client ‘I’ can flow with what is happening in the moment between us, within a session – no idea of self to interrupt the flow!

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Re: Requesting a guide

Postby Hannah B-T » Wed May 20, 2015 11:04 am

Looked again and actually the awareness is always connected to sensations, sounds, thoughts and it does not feel like there is any barrier between sensations and awareness, they are one. And no it does not feel personal or boundaried in any way.
Ok, great- I can't see anything meeting the criteria of a separate self there then...
Yes I can see that these are ideas I’ve picked up along the way and they are second hand. I did a degree in religious studies and got a thorough immersion in Jungian psychology. Then later I trained as a counsellor – and my training was from a psycho-synthesis perspective – so yes a lot of reinforcement of these beliefs!
Indeed.
But I'm hearing it's being seen the difference between what's going on perceptually and ideas/models telling stories about that. That's the key, and that litmus test can be applied to every thought, not just thoughts about I/me/mine.
there remains a belief that there is an organising intelligence that is personal and distinct to me, though not controllable?

Is there any evidence for that belief beyond another thought popping up claiming it's true?

If so- show it to me.

No! Apart from thought popping up no, no evidence!
yep :)
think it just needed to be worked through, as working as a therapist these beliefs have guided me in my work and been a big part of my life.
What do you mean here by 'worked through'? thought about? analysed?
Are there new fears or expectations popping up now about seeing this and also still working with the psychological model?
If so lay them out here for scrutiny.

So, where else do we need to look for this unicorn called self/ Hannah?
Is it still hiding somewhere we haven't looked yet?

If it's clear what is not current perception is simply imagination, then where would it still be hiding?
Are there keys in your pocket? Is the sky blue? Is there an 'i, a self?' LOOK! :)

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Re: Requesting a guide

Postby Little Em » Thu May 21, 2015 11:19 am

Read through your response yesterday and there was lots of confusion about doubts and expectaions . Then there was a realisation that I had been waiting to it, and then a realisation there was no me to get I and it felt like something dropped and there was just a sense of being connected. Driving home there was just an experience of connectedness with no ‘’me’ in between. There was a lot of peace and joy. That state sort of dissipated - and waking up today there’s a lot of tiredness and apathy, but feels like a shift is happening.

Did have some fears and doubts about working with psychological model, but these don't seem important - just thoughts. There is a trust that this will OK


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