Vesko: Hi Xain,I have to tell this. I'm very excited. Something happened yesterday but I realize it only this morning. I'll try to put it in words ill just try. Walking this morning I experienced something like division not exactly but let say Vesko was walking or as walking I was just swimming or gliding through the reality as I just was registering,experiencing whatever happening or was around. And it still keeps me on.pardon my english I know its not very good more that its very difficult to put this feeling in words. Its not a something which is like mountain but its result practical result which I never believed that ill get even after so much wara wara before. On the other side I would not be able may be to recognize it without all the wara wara before. It is something. Its there. I was all morning torturing friend of my /the one who introduced me to lu/how I feel about it. I'm truly grateful to both of you. Up till now on words I could chew all of it. But really since last evening I experienced practical effect. Besides the mushrooms. Now the question for me is will I and how to maintain this condition, state experience or call it whatever you want. I'm happy,no I'm glad I get to this point. I'm really honestly truly grateful. I don't know is there gona be more from your side/I wish it will/ but so long this is real results for me.
Vesko: I'd like to state this result was without me using any substance, alcohol or what so ever. I'm sory again the words are so poor to express it.
Xain : I understand what you are saying.
You are describing an experience. Whilst this can be seen as a very good thing, we must be careful. Experiences come and go.
What is important is to fully realise what has been discovered.
It is perfectly fine to say 'I had an experience' when it is known that this is just an idea - A thought - Only for the purpose of communication.
But . . .
Is there an 'I', a 'Vesko', a separate self having an experience?
Is there an 'I', a separate self that could 'maintain this condition?
Is there a 'Vesko' with a condition or 'in a new special state'?
Xain : Yes, words cannot express it
Vesko : Actually part of the excitment is coming that I have been able to feel or realize the flow of everything around and there is I ,no not exactly, there is some just observing, experiencing as part of the rest or something like that. In the movement I pull away from the particular thing I'm able to see, understand or realize that I'm participate I all the rest. Again its very difficult to put it in words. Its like I'm part of all the rest
Vesko : I may be f up in the mind but who or what is normal in this world.
Vesko : Pls after all remove the word part from my statement
Xain : " I may be f up in the mind but who or what is normal in this world."
Great! You make me smile
Xain : The goal for this realisation and my guidance was to 'realise that 'I', the separate self is just a self-referencing thought - An idea.'
Are you confident that that has been realised?
Your replies seem very good and you seem to have great confidence in this.
Vesko : Yes Xain. As I say, on words I was chewing it a long time. I've come to visualize it feel it realize it. I think that was a process which started long ago. Well I needed help and we have a result. Its needles to say that I'm totally honest. The only surprise for me is that it didn't take as long
Vesko : After all no matter what I have to say thank you.
Xain : You are welcome. There are a further six questions I can ask as part of this process. This may highlight other things we can examine that may not be clear - Are you ready for them?
Vesko : Yes
Xain : I'll give you the first three of the six questions.
Have a look at them, and give the answers when you have a moment:
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
2) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference between 'now' and from before you started this dialogue? Perhaps give a report from the past few days.
3) Was there a last bit that pushed you over? Made you look and realise? Perhaps something I mentioned, or something that you looked into yourself?
Vesko : 1)no separate self me I. Nor was in any way or ever
2)before uncertain. After euforia.
3)I can't say was it piece or all the dialogue combined.
Xain : Can you elaborate a little - Say more . . .
What was uncertain? What is now certain (if anything)?
Vesko : I've had I few doubts about "I",now -no "I"no doubts. Or I'm doing it how can I not be. Now the doing is done first on its one and second "I"is nowhere, illusion of separation or as you said an idea
Xain : Ok - Here are the last three of the six questions:
4) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now. (Feel free to use conventional language here)
5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Please give examples from experience if possible.
6) Do you have anything else you would like to say or add?
Vesko : 4) I'm Vesko I'm thinker who makes his own choices in his life. This should be good description of the illusion for separate self.
How does it work? The life is constantly unfolding flowing. By describing it naming it we taking away the all we can be by pin it down to a single illusion of been separate self.
5)in this case I can describe the illusion of decision, free will choice and control. I had that.
Xain : "I had that"
What do you mean?
Vesko : The illusion of control, free will and choice
Vesko : If you prefer an idea of it
Vesko : While I was reviewing it, it may look a bit unclear so ill try again questions 4 and 5
Vesko : 4) the beginning of illusion of separate self starts at early childhood. When we were given a name and we are programmed by social conditioning, expl:parents ,school etc. from there the assumed identity begins and its never questioned.
Vesko : 5) if the "I","self" is an illusion( mental construct) and thoughts are coming from somewhere on their own what control or choice do I have. Same goes for responsibility.
Expl:decision are happening without my conscious effort.
When at any given situation choices are made they unfold based on many previous reference points(conditioning)
Vesko : What makes things happen?
Actually I don't know. I can not explain the unexplainable.
Xain : Thank you for your answers, Vesko.
The other guides are happy that you have seen through the illusion, and so am I.
This guidance is now at an end.
I will get you added to the 'Aftercare' group, and there are more LU groups you can join if you have further questions or things you would like to examine.
Very best wishes to you
This is a read-only part of the forum. All threads where seeing happens are stored here and come from this forum, the Facebook guiding area and various LU blogs. The complete list, sorted by guide, contains all links. The archives include threads of those that came to LU already seeing as well.
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