DairinAshley - Ingen

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Ingen
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DairinAshley - Ingen

Postby Ingen » Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:37 pm

Hi Dairin, welcome to the forum.

Would you give me a summary of where you're at now? Like, what comes up when I say: "There is no you".

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DairinAshley
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Re: DairinAshley - Ingen

Postby DairinAshley » Sun Jan 15, 2012 8:30 am

“there is no you”

I’ve read about it in books and on facebook and listened to people on youtube talk about it, but I haven’t realised it. My mind is mostly empty and quiet, except when I’m stressed or worrying.

I meditated (sat on my zafu) with the question that varied from “who am I”, “what am I”, “what is this”, “who is this” and what is mu” and just “mu”. My mind became very silent/empty. But enlightenment never happened. I understand the moment of enlightenment to be when the separation between me and other objects falls away. There is be no “other” any more. It will be realised that there is no separate me and that in fact everything is me. I will see my true nature. Or, the true nature will be revealed.

I feel like a me, because I feel located in a specific body in a specific place all the time, except when I’m sleeping without dreaming, then there’s nothing. When I wake up I just know I was asleep and now I am here. I can’t get out of this body. I feel separate from everything else, and I am not merged with everything else. I don’t have the experience of being all that is.

There are characteristics and traits and make this expression uniquely Dairin. I guess that is the “you”.

I’ve observed that thoughts and feelings come and go and can stay for a while or just pass by. I can engage them and get tangled up in them or not. Sometimes the thought or feeling hangs around, or I get very entangled, then I just let it be until it’s gone.

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DairinAshley
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Re: DairinAshley - Ingen

Postby DairinAshley » Sun Jan 15, 2012 8:35 am

Oh I see how it works....pretty easy!!

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Ingen
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DairinAshley - Ingen

Postby Ingen » Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:12 am

I'm a little busy today, so this is short.

You say you're meditating. Try this: close your eyes and look for the boundary of you. Where do you end and where does the world begin? In your direct experience, how tall are you? How old? How many toes do you have? Couldn't you be any shape?

I'll get back to you later.

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Re: DairinAshley - Ingen

Postby DairinAshley » Sun Jan 15, 2012 1:44 pm

I usually keep my eyes open, but when I close my eyes, I can't find the boundary of me. I can find the boundary of my body where my clothes touch my skin or my bum on the cushion. I don't know how tall I am, how many toes I have or how old I am. I could be any shape. I seemed shapeless, spread out all over. I was closer to the sound of my breathing than to a sound somewhere in the environment.

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Ingen
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DairinAshley - Ingen

Postby Ingen » Sun Jan 15, 2012 1:52 pm

Are you sure you can find the boundary of your body where clothes touch skin? There is the sensation of cloth, but does it amount to amboundary?
I'm trying to sharpen your awareness what direct experience really means. If you subtract what you know or think to know - is there a boundary? Look.

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Re: DairinAshley - Ingen

Postby DairinAshley » Sun Jan 15, 2012 6:57 pm

It's just sensation.
Feeling closer to my breathing is more to do with the sensation than the sound. I can't feel other sounds. So am I really closer to my breathing... I'll really look when I meditate again.

I thought I'd let you know that I'm only on the internet at night during the week after work.
Thanks for working with me Ingen.

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DairinAshley - Ingen

Postby Ingen » Sun Jan 15, 2012 7:08 pm

You're welcome.
I didn't ask what is close to you. I want you to look for a boundary between you/not you when you look, listen, feel, think.
Can you feel a boundary between skin and clothes, or is this a kind of blurry sensation? When you open your eyes, what happens? What do you see? Are you doing seeing, or are the sights just there? Is there a boundary?

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Ingen
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Re: DairinAshley - Ingen

Postby Ingen » Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:05 pm

Sorry I might have misread your post before, and
It's just sensation.
referred to the skin-clothes-boundary?

But anyway, the instructions still hold. Keep looking for the boundary between you and no you. When meditating or just in real life. In your direct experience. No second hand knowledge allowed.

It is ok if you post in the evening. But at least once a day. Promised?

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Re: DairinAshley - Ingen

Postby DairinAshley » Mon Jan 16, 2012 7:02 pm

Yes, "It's just sensation" referred to the skin-clothes-boundary.

I can't find any boundaries. There is sensation and perception. When I open my eyes, sight or seeing happens. Like hearing happens. I'm not doing anything.

I will be here everyday. I promise.

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Ingen
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DairinAshley - Ingen

Postby Ingen » Mon Jan 16, 2012 7:07 pm

Where /what is the you in your direct experience?

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Re: DairinAshley - Ingen

Postby DairinAshley » Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:17 pm

Where /what is the you in your direct experience?

Thanks, I just read your FB message...I'm still getting the hang on how this site works...I didn't know there was a second page. I came here yesterday as promised, I just thought you might have been busy.

In my direct experience there is sensation, sights, sounds, tastes, smells. When attention is put on a particular sight or sound or sensation, there seems to be an awareness holding attention there. That awareness seems to be where this body is. If this body moves the sights move. If this body moves closer to the sound the sound gets louder. That awareness is the you.

or

the sights, the sounds, the tastes, the smells, the sensations, the attention, the movement is the you

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Ingen
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Re: DairinAshley - Ingen

Postby Ingen » Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:11 pm

In my direct experience there is sensation, sights, sounds, tastes, smells. When attention is put on a particular sight or sound or sensation, there seems to be an awareness holding attention there. That awareness seems to be where this body is. If this body moves the sights move. If this body moves closer to the sound the sound gets louder.
so far so good.
That awareness is the you.
This is not in your direct experience. It is a learned belief.
or

the sights, the sounds, the tastes, the smells, the sensations, the attention, the movement is the you
you are very close with this one. Very close. It is only a matter of grammar.

Feel the difference:

I am sights, sounds, movement. = I am the world.

versus

There are only sights, sounds, movement. = There is only the world. This is unity. And it is already there.

It is only a tiny shift in perspective.

Look again.

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Re: DairinAshley - Ingen

Postby DairinAshley » Thu Jan 19, 2012 7:52 pm

I am sights, sounds, movement. = I am the world.

versus

There are only sights, sounds, movement. = There is only the world.
This one seems more like it is.

In my direct experience there are sights, sounds, tastes, smells, sensations, attention, movement, thoughts, feelings and so on, this is all there is. BUT... and I hope I can express this. There is here. The sights are seen from here. If this head turns the view changes. If that head turns this view does not change. The taste happens here where this body is, in this mouth. Taste is not experienced in that mouth. Feelings and thoughts pass here. This here-ness feels like a cage. If there is here-ness and there-ness, this is not unity.

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Ingen
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DairinAshley - Ingen

Postby Ingen » Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:17 pm

You express it very well, and the answer is so obvious, that it is almost difficult.
Seen from where you are, ( and this is the only position possible) there is no you. You are the blind spot. There are hands, a blurry nose shape, and maybe gurgling sounds. There are trees seen from this angle. This is the only position/perspective there is in direct experience

Where is the cage, if you don't begin to tell stories?


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