Grateful to be here...

[HariOm]

I'd like to request a guide please,

thanks very much,

Dave

[Sarah7]

Hi Dave
Im Sarah and Id be happy to guide you! Have you looked around the site? Do you know what we do here?

Can you tell me a little about yourself? How did you get here!
Hugs Sarah xxx

[HariOm]

I just saw your post. I posted a little about me. Lets get started, thanks!

[HariOm]

Hi, a little about me, I'm forty nine, a licensed counselor and live in America. I've been searching for a while, since I was about twenty one. I'm reading lots of great books lately, I just got Letting Go by Hawkins and read three of his others. I've read New Earth four times, I just got: From the Christ Mind, a condensed version of Course in Miracles and I attend a weekly meeting on Sundays... I also just got Stepping out of Self-deception which is connected to why I'm here... Carlos Castaneda is my favorite author I always say. The last five years of my life have been the best. Because of an injury I want to Iquitos to work with Shamans, Brazil to see John of God and to India to see some Ayurvedic doctors. I have been working with Ayahuasca some lately, it's been very good, I meditate... I understand time/space/matter are the dream of God... I love the sixties, I'm mostly vegan, I have a cat with no name :) I'm anxious to get started. thank you!

Love and light,

[Sarah7]

Hi Dave
Have you looked around the site? Do you know what we do here?

What are your expectations for this process?

What is it that you are searching for?

How will you know that you found it?

How will this feel?

How will this change you?


There are also a few standard ground rules before we start:
Please agree to post at least once a day, even if only to say that you're still around, and I'll do the same. Sometimes it might just not be possible for one of us to post substantively and of course we'd find a way to work round that.

I am not your teacher, all I can do is point and you look, until clear seeing happens.

In general, I will ask questions and you look deeply and respond with 100% honesty.

Responses require simple, uncontrived honest looking. There are no wrong or right answers.

Responses are best from direct experience (the physical evidence of seeing, hearing, touching, tasting, and smelling, prior to the story or explanation about them). Long-winded, analytical and philosophical or stream of consciousness answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. Just listen very closely to the answers that arise in you, and answer to the very best of your ability at that time. (Read the article at http://www.liberationunleashed.com/Arti ... ience.html for more help on distinguishing what is direct experience.)

Put aside all other teachings, philosophies etc. for the duration of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention into seeing this reality, as it is. (If you have a daily and essential meditation practice, it's ok to continue with that. And it's fine to read threads in this forum and the Gateless Gatecrashers book.)

Please learn to use the quote function, see viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660 for instructions.

If you haven't already seen it, there is intro info at http://www.liberationunleashed.com/, together with our disclaimer and a short video.

Please confirm that you have seen these, that you agree to the disclaimer and then we'll begin.

Finally, here's a couple of helpful points:

1) You can press 'subscribe to this topic' in the blue bar at the bottom of this page and receive a notification email every time I post here.

2) The site has a nasty habit of logging you out while you write a reply, which can mean you lose what you have written. One way to avoid this is to write elsewhere, then just paste the message into the 'reply' window when you're ready to send.
Hugs Sarah xxx

[HariOm]

I agree, have seen the info and am ready to begin, thanks.

[HariOm]

What are your expectations for this process? None
What is it that you are searching for? Peace and joy
How will you know that you found it? it's obvious
How will this feel?
How will this change you? I have no answer for these last two.

[Sarah7]

Hi Dave
How do you think, feel or experience the 'self', 'I' or ‘me’'?

For instance does it feel like its in the centre or middle of experience, is it solid or thick, does it feel fixed or permanent, is it inside the body or part of the body, does it change, does it feel uniquely different and separate, does it become more or less solid or obvious depending on experience, does it have colour or shape or texture, is it small or large, does this self own the body or the thoughts and feelings it experiences?

Is it made up of thoughts and feelings, sensations, emotions, likes and dislikes, opinions, memories and experiences, perceptions, character and personality, does this self decide, chose, act, do and control? Anything else? Is there a time when the self is not experienced?

Now have a really good look and tell me where does the 'self' that you conceive yourself to be reside? Is it in the body as a whole, part of the body or somewhere else? Can you pinpoint an exact reference point? Can it be found, at all?

Can anything exist outside the present moment? Can you find anything that does? In your direct experience, is there anything permanent right now? What makes the "I" so permanent in our eyes?

What is it that you are searching for?

Peace and joy

Are you expecting these to be permanent? Continuous?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[HariOm]

We’re all “I”, We’re all “me” We and everything are God consciousness.
I sometimes feel like I’m in my head, maybe because that’s where my eyes look out. My thoughts sometimes feel like they come from there and sometimes from outside myself, channeled when I’m feeling connected.
I’m not sure I actually make decisions. On one level it seems I do and on another it seems I’m a bystander watching things unfold, sometimes enjoying the play of consciousness and sometimes scared by it.
Time, space and matter don’t exist. They do and they don’t. they exist in my consciousness or dream just as I believe I exist in God’s consciousness or dream. I believe we are the dream of God, dreaming, co-creating the universe. It’s real, a real dream but only God, consciousness, love are permanent, I think.
Nothing exists outside the present moment and the present moment is an infinitely small increment of time so it’s unfathomable but if time doesn’t exist, how does the moment exist? Only that which do not change is real, God, love, consciousness.
What is it that you are searching for?
My next trip to South American and India, my next Ayahuasca dream, God, “home”, connection with people, animals, nature, love, joy, growth. Only God, love, consciousness (dreaming) are permanent, creating and infinite dream.
Thanks, Hugs, Dave

[HariOm]

Creating an infinite dream I meant

[Sarah7]

Hi Dave
Can I just clarify something?

We’re all “I”, We’re all “me” We and everything are God consciousness.

Is this actually what you experience or a belief? Can you explain in terms of what is actually experienced – not what is thought to be experienced or believed to be. Please ignore if I have misunderstood.

I sometimes feel like I’m in my head, maybe because that’s where my eyes look out. My thoughts sometimes feel like they come from there and sometimes from outside myself, channeled when I’m feeling connected.

OK – so this is the only place you ‘feel’ you reside? You don’t experience any other place? And ‘you’ is made up of thoughts – nothing else?

I’m not sure I actually make decisions. On one level it seems I do and on another it seems I’m a bystander watching things unfold, sometimes enjoying the play of consciousness and sometimes scared by it.

So you experience emotion – fear - as ‘you’?

Time, space and matter don’t exist. They do and they don’t. they exist in my consciousness or dream just as I believe I exist in God’s consciousness or dream. I believe we are the dream of God, dreaming, co-creating the universe.

Are beliefs thoughts, lots of thoughts or repeated thoughts?

It’s real, a real dream but only God, consciousness, love are permanent, I think.

You experience this? Or think it?

Nothing exists outside the present moment and the present moment is an infinitely small increment of time so it’s unfathomable but if time doesn’t exist, how does the moment exist? Only that which do not change is real, God, love, consciousness.

Do you directly experience anything that doesn’t change?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[HariOm]

We’re all “I”, We’re all “me” We and everything are God consciousness.
Is this actually what you experience or a belief? Can you explain in terms of what is actually experienced – not what is thought to be experienced or believed to be. Please ignore if I have misunderstood.
It’s what I believe and feels right. In an Ayahuasca dream I had a direct experience that I met God and that we are a part of him and experiencing a dream of the universe. I don’t know anything I don’t think.
HariOm wrote:
OK – so this is the only place you ‘feel’ you reside? You don’t experience any other place? And ‘you’ is made up of thoughts – nothing else?
That is the only place I recall at the moment where I have experienced residing I think. I am not my thoughts. I am the observer of my thoughts…etc…
HariOm wrote:
I’m not sure I actually make decisions. On one level it seems I do and on another it seems I’m a bystander watching things unfold, sometimes enjoying the play of consciousness and sometimes scared by it.
So you experience emotion – fear - as ‘you’?
No, I have gotten lost in it but not to that point that I believe I’m the emotion, that I remember. Of course it’s amazing the things I’ve forgotten.
HariOm wrote:
Time, space and matter don’t exist. They do and they don’t. they exist in my consciousness or dream just as I believe I exist in God’s consciousness or dream. I believe we are the dream of God, dreaming, co-creating the universe.
Are beliefs thoughts, lots of thoughts or repeated thoughts?
yes, I think beliefs are thoughts, lots and often repeated.
HariOm wrote:
It’s real, a real dream but only God, consciousness, love are permanent, I think.
You experience this? Or think it?
How else would I experience anything except by thinking it? Please tell me what you think.
HariOm wrote:
Nothing exists outside the present moment and the present moment is an infinitely small increment of time so it’s unfathomable but if time doesn’t exist, how does the moment exist? Only that which do not change is real, God, love, consciousness.
Do you directly experience anything that doesn’t change?
I am something that doesn’t change or I am nothing and I believe I am and therefor always experience myself but to what degree depends on my level of consciousness, I think…
Thanks.
Hugs Sarah xxx

[Sarah7]

Hi Dave

It’s what I believe and feels right. In an Ayahuasca dream I had a direct experience that I met God and that we are a part of him and experiencing a dream of the universe. I don’t know anything I don’t think.

We will be questioning everything here - including beliefs. Do you still wish to continue?

Here we work with direct experience – Ill repeat this from my second post. Direct experience (the physical evidence of seeing, hearing, touching, tasting, and smelling, prior to the story or explanation about them).

I am not my thoughts. I am the observer of my thoughts…

Where is this observer? Can you locate it? Is it actually there or is this a thought or belief?

Are beliefs thoughts, lots of thoughts or repeated thoughts?

yes, I think beliefs are thoughts, lots and often repeated.

Well seen. Now is thought content real? E.g. if you think about the past is ‘past’ real or is it just a thought? Im not asking if thoughts are experienced here – just if the content is real.

How else would I experience anything except by thinking it? Please tell me what you think.

Good question – can you? Is anything experienced outside of thought? What? Have a look.

Do you directly experience anything that doesn’t change?

I am something that doesn’t change or I am nothing and I believe I am and therefor always experience myself but to what degree depends on my level of consciousness, I think…

Can you look again – look around you – don’t think this answer – look. Is anything non changing?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[HariOm]

Do you still wish to continue?
Well of course, why wouldn’t I?
Direct experience (the physical evidence of seeing, hearing, touching, tasting, and smelling, prior to the story or explanation about them).
No. there is none.
Where is this observer? Nowhere and perhaps everywhere but everywhere is nowhere and nowhere is everywhere so nowhere would be a correct answer.
Can you locate it?
No.
Is it actually there or is this a thought or belief?
It’s a thought and thoughts are beliefs.
Now is thought content real? E.g. if you think about the past is ‘past’ real or is it just a thought? I’m not asking if thoughts are experienced here – just if the content is real.
No.
It’s as real as anything. (everything except consciousness is both real and not real. It’s real in that it’s a real illusion. I seem to be experiencing all of “this” the world around me and yet I understand it’s all illusion. There is no past or future, just thoughts about them and the moment is too small to experience directly, gone in “no time” and exists in “no time” you can only think about it, not experience directly, present, past or future even though I feel like I’m experiencing the present. It certainly feel like I exist.
Is anything experienced outside of thought? What? Have a look.
No, not that I know of by me.
Do you directly experience anything that doesn’t change?
No.
Can you look again – look around you – don’t think this answer – look. Is anything non changing?
No.

Thanks,
Dave

[Sarah7]

Hi Dave
Have you had a go at the quote function? Does this link work? viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

It’s a thought and thoughts are beliefs.

So you are clear that the observer is a thought? This answer is from looking not from thinking?

It’s as real as anything. (everything except consciousness is both real and not real. It’s real in that it’s a real illusion. I seem to be experiencing all of “this” the world around me and yet I understand it’s all illusion. There is no past or future, just thoughts about them and the moment is too small to experience directly, gone in “no time” and exists in “no time” you can only think about it, not experience directly, present, past or future even though I feel like I’m experiencing the present. It certainly feel like I exist.

So you are clear that all is perception? Does that include the idea of a ‘you’?
Are you experiencing or is there just experience happening?

OK – lets look at the senses starting with sight.
Describe the experience of seeing step-by-step. In seeing, what is being experienced? What is happening when "seeing" is happening? What is doing the seeing? What is being seen? What does "seeing" consists of? Go into detail. Describe the actual, direct experience of seeing.
Gaze at an object. Turn up that inner magnifying glass to observe what's happening in direct experience. Do you first perceive the object using some other sense, and then see it later? Can you find a dividing line between the object and the seeing of it? Or are the object and the seeing of it inseparable? Is there an entity called "you" experiencing the seeing? Can you find a dividing line between "you" and seeing? Is it an accurate description of direct experience? Are there really three entities there in direct experience, an "I" and seer and an object? Or is there only seeing? What do you see about the thought, "I'm seeing that object"?
Try it with various sights e.g. out of the window at a distant view. See if you can find a way to separate the object from the seeing and the seeing from the seer. Where does one start and the other end? How many senses are there here - 1 or more? What is actually experienced – the table or the sense of seeing?
Hugs Sarah xxx