Hi Smudge

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cotton
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Hi Smudge

Postby cotton » Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:10 am

Looking for smudge to guide me

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smudge
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Re: Hi Smudge

Postby smudge » Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:26 am

Hi Cotton,

Just a few formalities before we start, please read thoroughly and let me know if you agree to the areas in bold:

LU says: Enter into this process if you are ready and willing to question all your beliefs and assumptions about awakening, if you are ready to face your fears, and if you prefer truth to comfortable lies. Do not enter if your goal is to fix the parts of your life that you think are broken, to embark on a self-improvement project, or to gain some kind of spiritual certification. On this basis are you ready?

can we both agree to post at least once a day, unless we let each other know otherwise?

I will ask you questions and you will respond with upmost honesty. Responses are best from direct experience (felt senses and observed thoughts). Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. OK with that?

Put aside all other teachings, philosophies and such for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily and essential meditation practice, it is fine to continue that. That OK with you?

Also to quote, just highlight what you want to quote and the click "Quote" above, when it posts it will have quoted, its a helpful way to communicate easily. Also its a good idea to tick the box below saying notify me when a reply is posted and tapatalk is a good for phones.

So after agreeing to the above...please begin by listing all of your hopes and expectations of what will come out of this process? lets hear it all, expectations can be a big block later so lets expose the,all now..

Great to be doing this with you,

Smudge x
"The bad news is you're falling, the good news is theres no ground" Trungpa

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cotton
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Re: Hi Smudge

Postby cotton » Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:49 am

Hello Smudge, thanks so much agreeing to this.
I agree to all the formalities written in bold.

My hopes are
To be free of the extra layer of suffering or pride that is added on out of fear and protection. It feels like habit
To see things as they are rather than how I decide they are
To see how I am adding unnecessary complicated stories
I hope that I can do this. I fear that I just won't get it.
I expect I will be confused at times. I expect my emotions to be a large part of the process. I expect to perhaps say, ah so thats what all those words and texts were pointing to. Phew

cotton as in 'freshly laundered egyptian' rather than 'Dot' cotton !

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smudge
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Re: Hi Smudge

Postby smudge » Wed Jan 14, 2015 12:00 pm

Dearest Egyptian cotton,

Thanks. These expectations all involve an 'I' at the centre and are therefore unrealistic.

So what comes up when you read....There is No "I", no one in control, no central head quarters...& there never has been and there never will be. NONE as in ZERO!....write what comes up.....
"The bad news is you're falling, the good news is theres no ground" Trungpa

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cotton
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Re: Hi Smudge

Postby cotton » Wed Jan 14, 2015 3:24 pm

Hi
I thought I had sent a reply but now I can't see it so maybe I didn't

so let me try again

[quote="smudge"]So what comes up when you read....There is No "I", no one in control, no central head quarters...& there never has been and there never will be. NONE as in ZERO!...[/quote

I think its a true statement because many others have who I respect have said its true. I imagine that there would be a great freedom if I could put down the load of being in control

questions arise

If there is no one in control then who makes the decisions
ie I have to decide whether to go shopping today or tomorrow and the 'i' or 'self' holds certain information and experiences that help make that decision. It feels like I make a decision based on that 'central head office'

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smudge
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Re: Hi Smudge

Postby smudge » Wed Jan 14, 2015 8:33 pm

think its a true statement because..........I imagine that......... questions arise.......
So, when the statement there is no self goes in, what comes up is thought and imagination. Direct experience is neither of these so take time to be clear – experientially – about the difference. The main thing is just to notice, it’s merely about noticing the difference between thoughts about experience and the experience itself. Sit with your eyes open, look at what is appearing. Note this as a direct sense experience of seeing. Close your eyes and imagine the scene you were just looking at. Identify this as a mental activity – imaging. Repeat until you’re completely clear about the difference. Now with hearing. If you’ve got a bell or some kind of musical instrument you could use that – or some music on a CD, for instance. Imagine the sound, then listen to the sound. Mental activity … direct experience. Know the difference, directly.
With body (tactile) sensations: try mentally imagining / naming ‘hand’, ‘foot’ and other parts of the body and then bring attention to the direct sensations of the part you’ve just named.
Notice the process: is it ‘hand’ … mental image of hand … actual sensations of hand? Or what? Or, try it by imagining lying down on the floor. Then lie down, feel the pressure/weight/sensations of contact with the floor. Or, imagine crossing your legs. Now cross them. Similarly, you could imagine walking, then walk, imagine pinching your skin, then pinch … This is simply a matter of getting clear in experience that tactile experiences themselves are totally different to any kind of mental activity about a tactile experience. Also do something similar with smelling and tasting – have, say, a piece of fruit available (but far enough away that you can’t smell it). Now imagine the smell / taste of the fruit. Note this as ‘mental activity’. Now pick up the fruit and smell it, noting this as ‘direct experience’. Continue imagining, smelling and eating until you are completely clear about the difference. Report back in each part of this.

Look forward to hearing xx
"The bad news is you're falling, the good news is theres no ground" Trungpa

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cotton
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Re: Hi Smudge

Postby cotton » Thu Jan 15, 2015 10:24 am

good morning smudge
Direct experience is neither of these so take time to be clear – experientially – about the difference.
there is a difference, hearing the CD in my imagination is different than hearing it through my computer, imagining drinking the cup of tea is different to the taste and sense of the tea I am drinking.

noted that my wanting a cup of tea is as much the imagined taste pleasure it will give as well as the actual sensation of taste.
Notice the process: is it ‘hand’ … mental image of hand … actual sensations of hand? Or what?
the process of hand started with seeing the word hand which i recognised as mental image then there was sensations of weight, shape of the hand, not as in a picture, the hand was not hand shaped, A sensation of tingling and warmth against coldness.

tactile experience is different to the mental image of tactile experience. sensation of hand is different to the word hand in my mind

noted that there is a lot of imagining alongside experienced sensations

bye for now

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smudge
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Re: Hi Smudge

Postby smudge » Thu Jan 15, 2015 10:30 am

Nice, keep going (and sharing) so its crystal clear what the difference is. x
"The bad news is you're falling, the good news is theres no ground" Trungpa

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cotton
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Re: Hi Smudge

Postby cotton » Thu Jan 15, 2015 4:09 pm

the difference between
Direct experience is neither of these so take time to be clear – experientially – about the difference.
the difference seems pretty clear, its just that there is not always the awareness that I am imaging rather than awareness of direct experience

can get lost in thoughts and imaginings rather than direct experience

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smudge
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Re: Hi Smudge

Postby smudge » Thu Jan 15, 2015 4:32 pm

So what is this "I" in DE, this "I" that can have or lose awareness for example ? Describe what is ACTUALLY found.


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"The bad news is you're falling, the good news is theres no ground" Trungpa

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cotton
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Re: Hi Smudge

Postby cotton » Thu Jan 15, 2015 5:22 pm

thanks for getting back to me so quickly
So what is this "I" in DE, this "I" that can have or lose awareness for example ? Describe what is ACTUALLY found.
thats a very good question …..

the 'I' is a thought or idea that makes some distinction between me and anything else.

Found that there is an experience of two types of awareness, the one where the 'I' is present and there is some sort of commentary or story, that can make sense of the experience
lost in thoughts and imaginings
the other is a bit vague would not know what words to describe the experience, i said it was thoughts and imaginings but I don't know because there is insufficient ability to put labels or words

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smudge
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Re: Hi Smudge

Postby smudge » Thu Jan 15, 2015 8:38 pm

'I' is a thought
Yes, keep noticing the truth of this!

But then...
the 'I' is a thought or idea that makes some distinction between me and anything else.
So I is a thought, what in DE in this "me" that is distinct from everything else. Please describe what is found.
Found that there is an experience of two types of awareness, the one where the 'I' is present and there is some sort of commentary or story, that can make sense of the experience
So in DE is "I" not present sometimes and is others? Can there be awareness of something not being there in DE?
"The bad news is you're falling, the good news is theres no ground" Trungpa

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cotton
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Re: Hi Smudge

Postby cotton » Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:25 pm

hi smudge been bit busy today but been thinking of your questions and been looking today and will continue to look tomorrow.
So I is a thought, what in DE in this "me" that is distinct from everything else. Please describe what is found.
when I was looking today 'other' is in a different space to me and then after I wondered if space is a thought….will look more tomorrow

thanks for being there with me on this
x

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smudge
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Re: Hi Smudge

Postby smudge » Fri Jan 16, 2015 11:36 pm

after I wondered if space is a thought
This certainly is. In this process Direct experience is all we are calling on. Lets carry on the earlier exercises to make sure its clear what DE is..

...have, say, a piece of fruit available (but far enough away that you can’t smell it). Now imagine the smell / taste of the fruit. Note this as ‘mental activity’. Now pick up the fruit and smell it, noting this as ‘direct experience’. Continue imagining, smelling and eating until you are completely clear about the difference. Report back in each part of this so that the description of ME (if in fact this is possible)..is direct..

Lets keep the looking direct and constant daily, momentum makes all the difference. xx
"The bad news is you're falling, the good news is theres no ground" Trungpa

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cotton
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Re: Hi Smudge

Postby cotton » Sat Jan 17, 2015 6:59 pm

This certainly is
yes of course…but its still a rational understanding, will need to keep looking

had visitors today and looking has been intermittent but am committed
more tomorrow, hope you having a lovely weekend
Love x


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